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 Post subject: Hello Everyone!!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:51 pm 
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My name is Danny, and I'm a 56 year old married Husband, Father and Great Grandfather! I am according to the rules just stating my introduction to my first ever post here. I hope to be a familiar poster one day, so I hope you all will open up your arms to me?

I have been taking Suboxone for about a year, and it saved me from a very painful withdrawl for my use of narcotic medication that I was being subscribed by a Dr, for an accident I was in back in 2005. I have become a slave of Suboxone, and I started to taper off because I don't care for being addicted to anything. I am now down to 4 megs, and am going down to 2 Meg's today.

Prior to my accident that left me Disabled, I was in recovery and still am, with the program of AA since 1989, I was prescribed many different types of narcotics for my chronic pain that I live with. When they stopped working for me, I went to South Miami Hospital where they have a renowned detox unit. They were wonderful! They used Suboxone to help me deal with the withdrawl, and it went so smooth!

But I am hurting so bad now, and Suboxone doesn't really address my pain at all. Ive been taking it for over a year now,and I'm scared between my choices of maybe going back to the narcotics or staying with Suboxone, because I will have a zero tolerance and those drugs could work again. I am torn on what I should do. So if any of you that have been in my footsteps I would welcome your experience, and for those that haven't been where I'm at, might also have an idea which would help me, please write me:-).

I look forward to posting here and getting to know you all!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:33 am 
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Hi Danny! You are welcome here!

I need to ask you a couple of questions to ascertain your situation. First off, did the detox program at South Miami Hospital suggest that you continue to use suboxone after their program, did a doctor tell you to do that because it was relieving your pain, or did you decide to stay on suboxone this past year on your own?

How long has it been since suboxone lost the ability to take away your pain? Some people on this forum use suboxone for both addiction and chronic pain purposes. In order to get the best pain relief, they break their dose up and take it about 4 times per day. So if you're on 4 mg/day, you would take 1 mg every 6 hours. Have you tried breaking up your dose like that?

I understand the desire to be off all opiates, especially with your background in AA, but could it be that you are going to need some level of pain relief for many years because of your injuries? I have to disappoint you about one thing. You do not have zero tolerance to the full-agonist opiates (pecocet, vicodin, oxycontin) that you used to take. Just because suboxone is a partial-agonist, doesn't mean that your tolerance to full agonists has gone back down to zero. It doesn't work that way. For example, I am on 2 mg of sub/day. That is about equivalent to 30-40 mg of percocet. I would probably have to take 10-15mg of percocet per dose to feel any relief.

I know that there are people on this forum who are more knowledgeable about the science of sub, but I wanted to speak up so you didn't think that you have a low tolerance to other kinds of opiates.

Please let me know what you think about what I've said. We will certainly try to find a way to help you!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Hi Danny,

A great big welcome from me as well. I read your post last night and was going to respond with something similar to what Amy said. Being an addict as well as a chronic pain patient is really a tough situation. I can understand you wanting to be comfortable, but I'm not sure if you will be any better off going back to the pain pills. I'm afraid your tolerance is not as low as you hope, as Amy explained the suboxone is an opiate and it definitely affects your tolerance to other opiates.

Is it possible that you might be able to get better pain relief from suboxone by raising your dose back up a bit? What Amy suggested is a very good idea. For pain control you should really be splitting your doses several times a day. I know that you wanted to get off the suboxone, but I wouldn't do that if I knew I was going to have to take some kind of opiate anyway. Speaking just from my personal experience, I couldn't control myself on the pills, at least with suboxone you don't have that drive to take more and more...and thinking about going back to full on addiction is just too scary for me.

Hopefully you can find some way to control your pain without going back to a full agonist. Maybe you could try adding something like tramadol for breakthrough pain? I know it's not very strong, but it can work well combined with suboxone.

Good luck, let us know how it goes for you or if you find anything else that helps.

Q


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 Post subject: Pain
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:17 pm 
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Danny,

First off, welcome to our forum! You and I share some big similarities. We are about the same age and I also started in the rooms of AA a few years before you did. Alcohol and pain meds do almost the same thing to our brains pleasure center. When I quit drinking my biggest fear wasn't booze, it was being afraid of bumping into my old H dealer who always started our conversation with a spoonful up the nose. In fact, my first real memory of feeling drug pleasure wasn't from alcohol, it was from percodan that my little brother got from breaking his back. I, of course, took most of them. (nice brother, huh?)

Don't confuse being addicted with having a physical & mental dependency with Suboxone. That is, unless you are abusing your Sub which I don't think you are. You are dependant on it to stay clean and sober, just like I am. A lot of us start off taking the large dose our Dr. gave us and then we begin to taper down. I was stable on 1 mg for almost six months w/o any bad withdrawals happening. I got sick, had several surgeries, and now am on 6 mg's. And yes, I have pain too. I had to go back on Sub because I started to abuse my pain meds again after surgery.

My pain is mostly in my neck (from the surgery) and also nerve pain from the same surgery. What my Suboxone doctor gives me is 1) My Suboxone, 2) Gabapentin for nerve pain, 3) Tramadol for overall pain in my neck. Now, I used to abuse Tramadol, but now taking Sub I don't feel it one bit. It is one of the few drugs that can get through the buprenorphine to help with pain. He suggests taking 2 Aleve and 2 Tramadols when my pain is bad. It does help but the Sub works the best. And just like it was posted above, take it in small doses for pain relief. For some weird reason it works better the less you take. Discuss your pain plan with your doctor and see what he thinks. You deserve pain relief just like everyone else.

And finally. DO NOT drop from 4 mg's to 2 mg's. That is a 50% drop and way too much. Go for 4, 3, 2. With about a week or two in between. It may turn out okay for you but it didn't for me. I was told the exact same thing right here on this forum two years ago.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:31 pm 
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I take suboxone for pain as well as addiction. The addiction came from the pain pills I was taking for my back. Over the years my tolerance grew and it began to get out of control. I take between 8mg-12mg a day, depending on my pain level. I usually split it into three doses, occasionally four. It helps really well with the pain. It's not instant relief, like an oxy was. It's more gradual, all around pain relief. I agree with the advice you've been given. Maybe try splitting your dose up. And you might need a higher amount. Do you feel any decrease in pain after taking your sub? If so, does it just not last very long? Or does it not relieve your pain at all? With suboxone, most people feel dependant on it, not necessarily addicted. With addiction you just want more and more and it consumes your life. That could be a problem with going back to regular pain pills. And your tolerance might actually be higher from the suboxone, so you may have to take a higher amount of pain meds. If the sub helps at all with your pain, maybe you could try changing around your dosing to see if that works. If it doesn't, then you'll know that pain pills would be a better option. I hope you figure out something that works for you. I know how horrible it is to live with constant pain. Hope you keep us updated and let us know how things are going :-)


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