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 Post subject: Hello all!!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:13 am 
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Hello all!
I would just like to introduce myself. I'm james =D. I'm currently taking 100MG of Oxycontin daily, and i just got my suboxone prescription filled. Is it necessary to have a COWS score of 12 AND wait 24 hrs till my induction? or can i take my first dose if my COWS score is 12 and its been under 24 hrs? does the 24 hrs start right after i take the oxy pill? or is it 24hrs from when it wears off?

24 hrs in withdrawal from 100mg of oxy a day is quite terrorific....i dont know if i can make it that long. I have never actually went in full withdrawal from this high of a dose before, so i dont know how bad it would be. Are there any tips on making it through the 24hr period before i can take sub?

That was just to put my questions out there right away. I'm a 20 yr old male with a DX of CRPS. My mother ran me over with her mini van when i was 15 (i know...some jerry springer type stuff right there.) lol! i am on my second run up the opiate chain, and want to quit for good!! I switched to oxycontin from Fentanyl Patches (75mcg/hr and 4mg dilaudid 3 times a day for breakthrough). Ill let you guys know a bit more about me as time passes. I would greatly appreciate your input!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Welcome James!

You ask good questions, and I believe there are rules of thumb. It is my understanding that your body is the boss with suboxone. In another words, Suboxone will be effective when you are in moderate withdrawals.

If you don't wait long enough (no mandatory time) - suboxone will displace the oxycontin and you'll get precipitated withdrawal. Not fun.

My understanding is 5 half lifes of a drug will have it out of your system (thus withdrawal). It starts at the first half-life typically but is gone at 5. I just read that oxycontin's half life is 6.5 hours. If you were to wait probably 30-36 hours from the last pill - you would probably be in mild/moderate withdrawals - and suboxone will work it's magic.

I hope this helps you. Keep posting. We may not be the fastest, but this site had great information!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Thank you for the response. I have read much about this process within the past couple days, and there were many times that i read stories about how somebody on a larger dose of oxycontin than me took their first dose of suboxone at 12 hrs or 16 hrs after their last dose. I know that some ppl are different. I also dont see myself making it 36 hrs tho lol. Pure hell dropping from 100mg to 0 for that long.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:50 pm 
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As said, there is no set time limit. Most numbers are in general and everone IS different.

Best way, as said, is to let your body tell you. Once you are in w/d, moderate is better, but as long as you are in w/ds, you should be fine. Dont take it the very second your nose runs or yawn/sneeze. But wait as long as you can, the shittier you feel the better the suboxone will make you feel. If you think it is much worse than it is, and you kinda cheat and take early you will regret it.

Good luck either way!!!

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"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Thank you. This site has comforted me somewhat. I'm quite terrified over this. Today i decided to make the switch to dilaudid and norco instead of the oxycontin to allow a smoother transfer to suboxone in a more timely manner. I will most likely take my last dose @ around 10 o clock so i can actually get some sleep tonight. Wish me luck!!! Happy New Years


P.S. Does any1 have any activities/ideas of things that help them feel a bit better in withdrawal?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:05 pm 
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Excercise, eating right, positive thinking (and positive everything, for that matter), I have heard many talking about doing yoga and meditation and related things,......

The switch to dilly's and norco should make it a bit easier than the oxycontin's, assuming the dilly's are IR, which prob are. You should be fine but good luck anyway and hang in there.....

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Hi James!

I was reading all of the thread, and I thought - wow you are on the right track!

Sounds like you have a good TEAM with your doctor if he is willing to switch you to shorter acting opiates over oxycontin.

Please, please, please - know that suboxone will (short of some strange deal) - remove your withdrawal symptoms when started right. It did for me. That's the great news, news to look forward to, news to help relax.

Sounds like you have been educating yourself about what suboxone is and what it is not. What it is termed a 'partial opiate agonist.' What that means to you and I is that it is terrific at attaching to the opiate receptors - the same ones that are used for pain transmission, and attached to by any full opiate (fentanyl, oxycontin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, dilaudid, morphiene, heroin, etc.).

Once you have been off oxycontin for a few days and on any short acting opiate - you need to be in mild to moderate withdrawal's for suboxone to work it's magic. You DON'T need to be to the stage where you wish you were dead. That stage where you are in a hot bath, legs jumping all around, etc. You DO need to be mild/moderate - such as runny nose, mild/moderate muscle pain, sneezing, etc. I don't know how the COWS scale works, but that was where I was. To be safe, I took my last dose at 2pm on Wednesday, and the doctor appointment was at 2pm on Thursday (give or take). I was scared, but it was really all just me.

I hope this helps. Please try not to get too concerned about your withdrawal symptoms (mild/moderate) before you start suboxone - I suspect you have been there before. Once you are there, then suboxone under the tongue (as directed by doctor) - will start it's magic.

In my case (which all of this post is about is opinion, my own experience) - I thought - I sure hope this works! I went to my room, followed the directions, and layed in bed to try and relax. I did not feel high, I did not feel numb, I went about an hour - and thought - hmmmm... I'm feeling different, guess I'll take the other 1/2 of pill (as directed by the doc), and within total of about another 30-60 minutes - I thought - I need to visit with my wife about something... I got up and went downstairs and we chatted. She asked me how I felt, and I thought - OH WOW... I don't feel any more withdrawal (still a little left over runny nose - like a cold) - but I knew I was OK. NORMAL.... NO HIGH... NORMAL...

I told her that, and we both were amazed. Worked as advertised! Wow! I could not remember the last time I had felt like that - and we ate a little dinner, and watched a show... all NORMAL.

I hope this helps you not get too anxious. Everyone goes through some anxiety, still do sometimes, but I realize I have the forum, and other resources now - rather than opiates. I believe you will do FINE!

ALL THE BEST!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Thanks for the advice lathe. I wouldn't exactly say i have a good team of doctors. The sub doc wanted me to take the fentanyl patches i was on off one night, and then the next morning start suboxone. I asked him if he had ever initiated a transition from fentanyl and he said no. This guy was probably 25 yrs old and fresh out of med school. It was my idea to switch to the shorter acting medications as i have been studying medicine independently for 6 years, and with all of my research i had never heard of an induction from a long acting drug (especially the fentanyl patches that take 48-96 hrs to clear out of your system) that didn't precipitate withdrawal when started to abruptly after DCing the drug. I'm not too confident in my sub doc. He also told me that i needed to be off of all other drugs, including my sleep aid. Although I did explain to him that I take my pills as prescribed, never abuse them, and often take LESS than is advised, he still had it in his head that i needed intensive therapy. I disagree. (I'm not saying that counseling is bad, as there are things we can learn from ourselves that are hidden from our conscious mind and need to be coaxed into sight in order to be recognized. The greatest fall of the best psychs were the fact that they were unable to subjectively analyze themselves. Counseling can help anyone. Even if there is NOTHING wrong with them. ) But as Dr. Junig has said before in his video's, the fact that doctor's treat everyone the same, (addicts, and people who are depent) can only do harm.
With that being said, I have been through this once in an inpatient setting, and was on valium, clonidine, vistaril, and seroquel...it was no problem then, and shouldnt have been one now. I wont argue with him tho. As long as i have a prescription for my magical pill, ill jump through any hoops necessary.

I definitely over-worked myself on this one. I was so scared about being in withdrawal that i suffered more worrying before i stopped the meds than i am in withdrawal. I have my prescription filled, the pill bottle sitting next to me. My last dose was at 8 p.m last night and i'm currently at a nine on the COWS. Dose initiation will begin at 8 p.m. today. I normally only take a half-dose of my sleep aid, but without the narcotics i knew i would have trouble sleeping. I took my full dose last night to try and sleep most of this off. It worked for the most part, as i slept till 1:30 p.m; although i woke up multiple times. A few hot baths with salts and a cherry blossom candle lit, some orange-spice tea, and playing with my cat (OMG i'm not gay). I have found that keeping my mind distracte from the pain and restlessness is important. Anything that tugs my mind away from reality is productive. I'm constantly switching from too cold to to hot. I have never appreciated a hot bath as much as i do now!!


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 Post subject: Let us know how it goes!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Please come back - TONIGHT - if you can, and let us all know how your initial dose goes. From everything you have said here it should go fine for you. This could be the start of everything getting better for you as well. I actually, in some ways, envy you in being able to do all of this at home. That is how I should have, and would have done things, had I had the chance. I've told my story on here in the past about suffering in withdrawals for over 48 hours after my last, moderate, dose of a short acting opiate. I would have loved to have been in my own home versus a treatment center. You seem to be doing this exactly like the Suboxone makers suggest and according to most of the best practice information out there. The only "bad" part is, taking your first dose is really going to be the easy part of all of this. You are going to feel much, much better. Then the real work starts as you start stacking up day after day WITHOUT DRUGS!

Please let us know the details of how things go for you with your first dose or doses!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:45 pm 
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From what you said in last post, you should be in the clear!! You will know, well your body will know when it is time. 8 should be perfect, but confirm with your body.....if you think you should wait, do it! I don't think you will have to wait...24 hrs from last dose from dilly's should be fine. Good luck and I agree with donh, let us know how it went/is going. You will not regret your decision to choose suboxone.

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"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:40 pm 
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Its now 7:37. Approximately 37 mins ago, the WD hit me like a truck! lol. I went from a 7-8 on the COWS to a 22 in a matter of an hour to an hour and a half or so. I got in the bath again for the 3rd time today, but it just wasnt helping me out at that point. I just took my first 2mg, and within a minute...i felt a warm sensation in my body. Could've been a placebo affect tho. I wanted to feel better so bad that if i thought taking a tic tac would help, it probably would have. I dont feel better...but dont feel worse. Thats a blessing in itself. Will post in a bit.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:22 pm 
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This is the next morning - last night was awesome...after taking my second dose...i felt great. There's no other way to explain it. I wasnt intoxicated but wasnt in withdrawal. I felt free. After being in withdrawal and having a few shitty months, i feel like i can get out there and do something. I certainly did last night. My internet went down shortly after posting the last message, and i felt so good that i decided to go out and see a few friends that i hadn't in a long time due to the various reasons a dependent person wouldnt. We only relaxed in my buddies front room, playing video games, but they sure were happy to see me and i had a blast! I'm taking my morning dose as I type. When i got home last night i was in mild withdrawal again. I had to take another pill. I dont think my dose has built up in my system yet...so i expect my dose to be low or at least be funky for a couple days.

My doctor prescribed 2mg tablets x2 a day, and told me that if i take more i need to call him....i wonder if this is normal? - a person goes from 80-120 mg of oxycontin a day to just a 2 mg dose twice a day....that seems quite low. oh well...ill have to call him


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Fantastic!

Thanks for the updates. I am so thrilled for you... Now you can also be a helper to help someone understand they will feel "Normal" - and try and define that for them :) WAY TO GO!!!


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 Post subject: Don't sweat the dose
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:42 pm 
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It's great to hear that you did so well. I was pretty sure that you would. As for the dose that you are on, it's just a number. Just like I suggested you not worry about the amount of hours, don't obsess over the dose. They are just numbers. Just like the withdrawal, pay attention to what your body is telling you. The correct dose for you is not dependant on a number of milligrams so much as it is on how you feel. If you feel "normal", fine, good, whatever, on 4mg/day, well then great! Plus you have the added benefit of significant savings over say 8mg or 16mg a day - to the tune of hundreds of dollars a month! Now, if your body tells you that you need more, then call your doctor and talk with him about that. Just don't let your mind trick you into telling you that this dose is too low and therefore you must need more. That can very well happen - just like your "immediate" reaction when you put the Sub in your mouth. I’m sure you already know it takes at least 20-30 minutes to work so nothing really happened in those two minutes - it was in your mind. Don't let your mind do that with your dose. Pay attention to your body and go from there.

It's great to hear you on the path to recovery. Keep going!


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