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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:35 pm 
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:(

Here I go again. I feel like an idiot. I posted on here about a month ago when I was inducting subs, asking questions about it...blah blah blah...you know the routine. I used subs for about 3-4 days, starting at 0.5mg 3x a day > 0.5mg 2 x day > 0.5 1 x day > 0.33~mg day 4.

After day four, felt no more withdrawal from the oxy, and so i felt fine. I even felt fine when the suboxone left my system. There were no symptoms aside from major depression and fatigue (lack of motivation to do anything...)

So after that, I pretty much stayed clean for two weeks after a two month habit. The previous time I had been clean was for 10 days, but that was after an 8 month habit. Suffice to say, I have been using an opioid of some sort for the past year.

I slipped up..because after the 15 day mark...suddenly i thought about all the things that stressed me out, I was waging a war inside myself...trying to stop the craving and ignore it. I finally got off work, went directly to my dealer and bought two 30mg oxycodones. "Just two..." I thought to myself. "I can just use on the weekends. I can control this." I couldn't have been more wrong.

What's more...is that while I was on my way to get them, several things happened to me:

1) My car ran out of gas
2) My blinker light went out apparently that day (would've probably gotten pulled over)
3) My dealer had already been waiting like 30 minutes at this point and was getting impatient.

None of this stopped me. The universe was trying so hard to stop me from getting those drugs, but I overpowered the "universe" and called my uncle, who gladly took me to pickup drugs. He probably shouldn't have enabled me, but I begged.

I sniffed 15mg because I assumed my tolerance had gotten a bit lower and I was right. Endorphin/dopamine explosion within 5 minutes. Ahhhh. There is that SWEET RELIEF!!! And the rest ever since then is history. I just started a new job, so I ran out of money again and my uncle gave me subs to deal with short term taper/withdrawal AGAIN.

---

Now...this new job has me worried. I went from making like 40k a year to 72k......that's a 32,000 leap in my profits. Well...with taxes..about 30 percent of that will get taken away but still...I took an engineering job (at 23 years old).

I know my checks are going to be a great deal larger. Now I am scared. Because if I relapse again, I will spend TONS of money on it...probably a thousand a week.

I KNOW what i SHOULD do...and I have taken subs the last couple days as maintenance (last dose of oxy was thursday, weaned down to hydrocodone on friday, then started subs sunday morning)...but i know in my heart...that I have this uncontrollable craving and drug seeking desire to feel good...to feel that full agonist euphoria.

also the suboxone side effects profile just pisses me off!!! my teeth hurt, my head hurts, it f*cks my stomach up bad if I don't have promethazine just lying around.

anyone have any advice? or do i have to repeat this trial and error because i am young and "stupid" ? suboxone is enough to make someone comfortable for short term opioid agonist withdrawal for the duration of the withdrawal...

so i have three choices:

1) keep using, but use suboxone as a stand in when I run out of my primary full agonist
2) get on suboxone and suffer side effects and never full happieness
3) get sober and never be truly happy

or...

4) die at an early age due to an overdose. though..i never pushed past 90 or 120mg a day and was using clonazepam and xanax on top of that

let's face it. reality sucks. it really does. i think a lot of us on here want to believe we can be happy but I am not so sure it's possible anymore...

i want to believe there is hope. i want to believe i can change. but the truth is...people don't change. we are...who we are...and are forever wired that way. you can alter your habits all you want, but that doesn't change the underlying desire.

thoughts...

i am hoping someone could help save me with your words. this is pretty much "it". if i dont quit now, then i most likely will never quit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:15 pm 
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......and you will relapse again..or again..
For someone so young, who has just landed a great new job your words really dont have much hope in them Feelin.

We can't see the future. We can't. You will never be happy"? Ever? Without drugs? Sub maintenance will keep you off opiates, but you can just witch to something else. I think you said this. Happiness can be found without drugs.


"If I dont quit now,I most likely never will" .. Your an opiate addict now. So Am I. I wasnt then in 07 i became one. At 49 years of age! I blew it.
But I saved my ass by finding sub and recovery help.

Find some help Feelin.. I feel for you. Mostly because your thinking is so hopeless. Pick door number ..1? 3? 4??? We dont know what going to happen if we stop useing. We know what will if we do not stop. It is the bottem we cant see that can kill us in many ways. .

Subs, side effects..many of us deal with them and uno, until you get on a loug term maintenance program how do you really kmow?

I just wanted to comment here.. I dont have any real answer for you for sure. I know what has worked for me. And I am alive...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Feelin

You are 23 years old and making some real money now. You can buy a car, save for a small house or condo, go on nice vacations or...............give that money to a dealer who will do all those things & leave you in the dust.

When my son got serious about recovery he changed BIG time. No more using the subs when he was broke or "trying to do a short term detox", it was when he got serious that his life changed. I honestly thought I would get that dreaded phone call "Mrs Smith, sorry to tell you we found your son dead". I don't have that worry anymore.

That "good feeling" or "happiness" from drugs is not real! It's not only not real, it only lasts a few hours. Then the depression hits and you run out to get more oxy. Bad cycle.

IMO, Good cycle may be to go to a sub doc, get yourself committed to recovery and use sub as a tool for several months or a year to hold off cravings while you work on yourself and change habits. I want for you a Long & Happy life,, wife, house, kids or a super career where you see the world. What ever your dream is, now is the time to go for it. My son regrets the "wasted time" and you never ever get that back.

Many people have side effects from sub that go away after a few weeks. Maybe that will happen for you. Who knows, you don't stay on a "real dose" long enough to know.

The above is just my opinion based on what you wrote. I will tell you I am happy and i am on sub. I laugh, cry, the whole deal. My son is happy....perhaps you can be also. Getting off that roller coaster of using, not using is exhausting emotionally and financially crippling.

Hope this helps you see sub is not black and white and it isn't a magic pill. You/We still have to do the work to better ourselves.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:36 pm 
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Hey Feelin" the blues,
I believe the name you picked, pretty much says it all. lol
So you relapsed, big deal. This shit is gonna happen from time to time.
Did you think to yourself,
I have been clean for "such and such" time, I should "reward" myself. I deserve it! I can handle it! lol
It's not that easy. You are a different person now, than you were before you starting using.
To me, you might not be ready to go without a maintenance drug right now. Honestly, I wish you would go back on a small dose of Subs. The side affects you are experiencing can easily be cured by simply spitting out your saliva after, lets say 15 minutes of Subs dissolving in your mouth.
It has worked for me. You aren't losing the Bupe, just the Naloxone.
I haven't had any headaches or stomach problems since.
Welcome to the forum!
Happy


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:56 pm 
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As Tiki is saying, sub is just a tool when you're willing to get your sh*t together. A lot of people have some trouble with side effects that go away after a couple of weeks. Others make an effort to spit out the saliva in their mouth after the sub dissolves. This is because there are many people out who have a sensitivity to the naloxone in the sub. It can cause headache and upset stomach. It's definitely worth trying to see if that calms down the side effects.

I also suggest finding an addiction therapist to help you cope with reasons that you're craving and that you may have been susceptible to addiction in the first place.

I know it's hard to have hope when you feel like you're on this vicious cycle and you don't know how to get off. That's why you know that you need professional help. You can't do this by yourself right now!

Stick with us and let us know how we can help! It may seem hopeless right now, but there are ways to get back on track!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:22 am 
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Feelin

Clearly you are not "stupid" (your word), you are pretty damn bright to be an engineer and make that amount of money ....The problem is you have an addiction issue. You can be happy, you really can. What is a year or two out of your lifetime to learn to change? Often, we with addiction issues are bright but have low self esteem, super sensitive , suffer from depression or don't know how to cope with situations so we turn to a pill to feel good or stop the anxiety etc.

I thought about you alot last night and first thing when i woke up! The other thing i wanted to mention is maybe a generic bupe will work better for you. I was on sub films and was forced by insurance to switch to generic so i choose Zubsolv and it was the best thing i did! I have less side effects and feel much better overall on the Zub. That is an option for you also.

Hang in there feelin!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Thanks all for the reply.

I WANT to stop, but at the same time...if I am truly honest with myself..I don't. Think about how all of you felt. A lot of you must have been in my shoes before.

It's as if you are in love with this part of yourself that you never want to go away...you know...the person whose brain is just maxed out with endorphins and dopamine, you feel good all day long, you eat right, talk to people almost too much, feel energetic, and are emotionally and physically pain free. As for suboxone maintenance...here's where I have come to pretty much stand on that subject:

1) If you are going to trade an addiction for another addiction, it might as well be your drug of choice,
and not some partial endorphin agonist that suboxone is and slap "maintenance drug" on it.

2) Doctors are making money off you anyway at sub clinics, and if I am going to pay for a habit, it's going to be one that I fully enjoy, not partially (if at all).

3) For thousands of years, there was no law on opium import and use, and the brains own endogenous opiate system is eerily too similar to the structure of raw opium. There is only taboo with drug use because the government, addiction facilities and so on try to shove "anti-drug" propaganda down the masses throats. If it was a few thousand years ago, and you all were born amongst any given native tribe in the early centuries of America, you would be raised by the natives and taught that "god" was the "sun". Therein, instead of your brain searching for a logical reason to find an answer as to why the sun is a star in outerspace, you settle for the ritual that your tribal parents tell you. In native american tribes, even in modern times, it is socially and spiritually acceptable to consume peyote.

4) Females, when giving birth, produce beta-endorphins for the benefit of the fetus right before giving birth. It is highly likely to assume that a child cries out immediately after it's born because it's suddenly being ripped away from the mothers natural and comfort induced state of bliss.

5) Opiates do not themselves cause physical damage to your body. In fact, were they not so addicting, opiates and their semi-synthetic or synthetic cousins would be the perfect drug. There is virtually no evidence of the contrary. Sure one can overdose through respiratory depression, but chemically, most of the time, other substances, or a SUBSTANTIAL amount of the drug of choice is involved. I for one, have never gone beyond the personal limit that I chose for myself and not a milligram more.

6) No one sees you the same again after you choose to use and they are aware of it. Let's face it (and I am right) there is so much negative stigma surrounding heroin when in fact, heroin isn't all that much more potent than morphine. My problem is, where do you draw the line as to where it's "okay to use opiates"??? WHO decides that? It sure as h3ll is not a moral thing. Know why? Because before we had psychiatrists, therapists, scientists, doctors, and governments turning opiates into a commercial venue, no one thought twice about riding down to the local pharmacy in the late 1800s or early 1900s by horse and picking up a bottle or two of laudunum. There was no line back then, why is there now one suddenly? Money.

7) I am not saying bupe doesn't work, but bupe really doesn't work. It's JUST another drug that tickles some of your opiod receptors. You really may as well just keep using. Sure...it's great for some people. But tell me...would you HONESTLY rather withdraw from suboxone or withdraw from a short acting opiod. Yeah...none of you want to ever have to come off subs. Screw withdrawal lasting for weeks. It would be a lot easier to eat some loperamide and take some zantac beforehand so that the P-glyco protein breakdown is inhibited allowing some of that loperaminde to cross the BBB. And yes...it does work. It's like a poor mans methadone.

8) How many years do you guys think it's worth trying to avoid what I really want in life? Why deny yourself that pleasure? Honestly. You are only a bad person if you paint yourself that way and others see you in a negative light, which means you've done something to upset or hurt them in a way, but that's just plain.... YOUR FAULT. It has nothing to do with the drugs. I did UP TO and never more in any given day than 240mg of oxycodone. Many, Many times, I used much less than that. I got up on time, went to work, take care of my kid and try to be the best dad I can be to him, I am always honest and genuine, I never lied, cheat or stolen and YES I have been to the point to where I have considered it. I was and probably still am a high functioning drug addict. I never put my life on hold to chase a high. The high always just made life better. I used it as a tool, rather than an overwhelming path to self-destruction like many, many people do with drugs in general. I am not masking any psycological pain, or physical pain.

Just think about what I have said so far. You all know what I say must be true. And no...for those of you who have enough insight while reading this, I am pretty sure that you could deduct all of my reasoning and break it down to one sentence: "Oh yeah Feelin? Well just because you understand your use and what it does to you and how it effects you doesn't give you the excuse to intellectualize and rationalize your use of your drug of choice". Um....Yeah....it does.

That's like saying you have the right to vote but can't because you aren't allowed to know who the candidates are going to be. You have a right to know and do the research to figure out what fits you best. Not just what some "holy drug stopping sub doctor" gives you. If you are still on suboxone...you are still an addict. You are simply addicted to something different.

Coffee users who drink coffee everyday...you are caffeine addicts.
Drinkers who can never just have one...you are addicts.
People who like food. You like food, and are addicted.

No...I am not really blanketing the addiction term either. It's factual. The brain wants what is best for it's reward system. For some, that's music, food, alcohol, painting, excersise etc. For us fortunate enough to know the secret of opiates and/or opiods, well...we just know that we like to be chemically altered to reach a state of what seems to be homeostasis in our minds.

Largely, I believe that genetically we are predisposed to opiates. It just simply isn't a coincidence that we have receptors in our brain for poppy plants.

Can anyone try and talk me out of all that? Remember to think logically about what I have written here rather than reply irrationally.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:21 pm 
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Hello Feelin :)
Ur first post changed quiet a bit from ur second post. I've been on Suboxone for getting close to four years now. I used for around six years before getting on sub. It started out with the feelings that u are telling urself right now. Why not use if it's making me function better in my life?? I thought I'd found the answer to being a better patient parent, a better employee, and just a more tolerant person in general. It made me feel invincible. Can I please tell you...that will Not last much longer for u and that's something that u may not believe right now, but in the future u will be shown that. I'm not gonna blow smoke up ur butt and say sub is the answer for u, if ur not ready then ur not ready. I'm seeing the way ur thinking here and no matter what any of us tell you, ur going to find a way to challenge that. And that's ok, we've all been there. I can honestly say that I was where u are in the past and nobody could tell me a thing to change my mind. I hit bottom....rock bottom, then I opened up for anything that I could try to change. You've tried sub, if u think ur life is actually better using oxycodone, why'd u wanna try sub? There had to be something that convinced u u need a change right?

U said that u haven't lied, cheated, stole and even got up on time using ur DOC. I can 100% promise u that will change in time if u continue using. U said u never put life on hold chasing a high right? Didn't u run out of gas, and had to call ur uncle for a ride, make ur dealer wait for u just to get a couple 30's? That's kinda putting urself through quiet a bit to just achieve a high. The only reason I bring all this up is to show u that ur trying to convince urself that using isn't taking over ur life. It's already starting to, trust me.

I think u should give suboxone a chance, a good month to really see what a blessing it can be. If sub isn't for u, there's other things u can try...I'm sure you've researched it. I really hope ur honest with urself to see that if us addicts could have continued using and never been negatively impacted, we'd absolutely still be using today. It just doesn't work that way my friend. No matter how much money u make, it'll never be enough. Do u realize just going to ur dealer could lead to u getting arrested? Ur already doing stuff that's illegal.

I really hope u give sub a chance to work, it's the best decision I've ever made. But it took a bit to realize that. It does work, u gotta give it a chance. Good luck, u deserve a beautiful life and I hope u get it and keep it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Quote:
You've tried sub, if u think ur life is actually better using oxycodone, why'd u wanna try sub? There had to be something that convinced u u need a change right?


I only tried sub last time because I am open minded and willing to give chance to things that hold promise. The suboxone did not hold promise to me. I don't like the "ripped off" feeling you get from it. It's irritating. I would rather (and stopped taking suboxone today) suffer the regular wd, than drawing it out with subs. At those low doses of subs I was taking, it's not high enough to get me feeling the full effects of sub, but rather, only enough to displace the remaining oxycodone left on my receptors and just enough to mask my oxycodone withdrawal that I would otherwise feel if I wasn't on subs. The worst WD is @ day 3 and 4, some residual at 5 and 6, and pretty much complete after seven days.

I am young. It only takes me 5 days before I start feeling normal again. Being younger gives me the advantage of rapid cellular regeneration and a stronger immune system as well as healthy organs that can withstand my intake. It would be a different story if I used products with APAP and chose to destroy my liver for no good reason.

jenn, I appreciate you saying you felt how I feel...but if that's so...what made you change. Why? What's the point? Yeah I get that even going to my dealer is illegal, but so is j walking or drinking and driving, even if you had a prescription (which I have gotten prescribed before many times) insuffulating them or injecting them is illegal. Even having the medicine past the expiry date is illegal if I am not mistaken (Probably not, but if you ever got searched for some reason, they would try to stick a trafficking charge on you for holding so many). Lots of things are illegal.

I have a good general rule of thumb when it comes to buying:

1 - Use a different car every time.
2 - Never meet more than once a day
3 - Use a disposable phone, one that is not likely to be "tapped" or have any records kept
4 - Always mind your surroundings. Very, Very carefully.
5 - Never score junk. Because it's junk. It's not pharmacy quality.
6 - The dealer uses a different phone every time. At least...mine does.
7 - Never actually talk about the product on the phone or in messages.

8 - Dunno bout anyone else, but I ran a background check to see if my dealer has any outstanding charges. He is clean, so he is thereby not under any investigation. It also helps to have an uncle on the narcotics division of local PD.

9 - Never dress like a junkie so that you won't stand out. I wear 2 or 3 piece suits everyday.

10 - If a cop pulls me over (and I have done this before) I just swallow whatever I usually have on me. A risky move, but not as risky as going to jail. Believe me, I have had a very hard time talking to a cop normally while 150mg or more hits me all at once, but it's do-able.

11 - Never use your real name or drivers license so that you never come up in any investigation.

12 - Trust nobody

13 - Find one spot to meet, then use a seperate car to actually meet at the real location, which is pre-determined with code words.

14 - do you want me to go on? It's not like I am stupid with this kind of thing. there is also the alternative of getting them online via a method I won't be to detailed on how to use so as not to enable people. Limitless supply, put in your mailbox, and if you are say...a tenant who lives next to another tenant who is never home, their mailbox is an excellent choice and the package is actually NOT illegal until opened.

I fully understand the risks taken. I am aware of would happen if I was caught in the act. But a lot of times, all that stuff is situational and many times they want the person who is distributing behind bars, not the customers.

I don't do rock bottom. I already did it. My dad is dead from his alcohol problem which...GREAT! they love to sell alcohol...sh*t that can actually KILL YOU over the counter. But there is...for whatever reason...a horrible problem with painkillers, marijuana, blah blah blah. My fiance cheated on me. I have an almost three year old son who I love more than anything in this world and he is all I have. My addiction is backwards, most people's lives become all the way consumed dragging down everyone with them. My life was dragging me down already and I lost what felt like everything at the time, and even back then didnt start using. I understand that bad things happen in life. But I use only as a tool. An aid to help me function faster, better, stronger and feel EUPHORIC the entire time I do. Who WOULDN'T want that?

I am not saying I am right. To me, there is no real definition of a moral boundary. We are who we are. Chemically, Physically, Mentally, blah blah blah. PEOPLE DONT CHANGE. How many times have people relapsed after being clean for years? How many times did any of you fantasize about once again being pain free and feeling that euphoria again? The freedom and release from all stress and strain. A poor man's ecstasy if you will.

You know why you have triggers, cravings, thoughts about your use and have a lifelong battle with it? It's because you are resisting who you are. You may be able to control your actions but you cannot change who you are. Many on this forum have satisfied their cravings by giving in to a lifelong battle of suboxone maintenance and will never be able to stop for fear of the dreadful suboxone WD.

No one has said anything about my very valid points. I am dissappointed....

And sure..I went out of my way to go to meet my dealer. It was only the one time, and it was only exclusively because I had not bought anything from him in two weeks so our obscured routine was off. I had to remove him from my phone, but lets just be honest. You always remember the number.

I am a humanist. I believe in people feeling good...no matter what that means.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:21 pm 
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Feelin

I just have to open my mouth, i know i should keep it shut but I just can't. Mod's feel free to take this down.

You are making choices for YOUR life and that's the way it should be.

This is just my experience and a whole lot of others that i know.

In 7 days you won't be over sh*t. Been there, done that. In 30 days (if you make it) you will start feeling well enough to tear everything apart looking for some oxy. That is one reason sub is a useful tool. It buys you time to change your behavior, learn to deal with cravings etc.

Many years ago, after hurting my back and taking pain pills (semi regularly) when i ran out i got the flu (just my luck),then i had awful anxiety that came out of nowhere, next it was depression...for about 6 weeks i felt "off" and didn't know what was going on. Went to 2 doctors, they didn't know. I am sure you already know, it was withdrawals. No matter the reason, no matter where you got the opiates, it's gonna take time to heal.

I was a young healthy (other than a slipped disc) woman who ate healthy foods and usually used alternative health care when i had the above experience.

So, in 7 days when you don't feel like "yourself", please pick up a piece of sub instead of another opiate.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:26 pm 
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Since u got it all figured out, why are u here? Whatever, ur so much smarter, younger, better, and have the meaning of life all figured out. Like Tiki said, I should have just kept my mouth shut. But honestly, that's hard to do. I will however not comment on this anymore. Bravo on all those steps u take trying to outsmart law enforcement, especially since u haven't changed ur lifestyle to achieve a high. I wish u the best and in the end it's ur life and ur entitled to ur feelings. Just please don't knock ppl down that took time out of their day to try to help a complete total stranger. Ur opinions aren't fact. Because u dress nice, u have a less chance getting caught?? Do u hear urself? I'm sorry, mods feel free to remove my post also if I'm out of line, I just couldn't resist.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:56 pm 
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I can't help if the way I deal with my dealer isn't traditional. Typically people get caught because they are careless and let the dealer control the situation. Im not knocking anyone here..im here because im not in denial about being an addict. I recognize the full extent of my addiction. Why try to deflect with your responses? All it seems to show is that you have a limited ability to offer a young man advice instead of mocking him. I am simply telling my story and making a strong case , just because its not easy for me to drop the ball doesn't mean it might not be easier if I had the right support system. I have no real family. I am doing this on my own. Also when you deflect it shows that I indeed had many valuable points and seemingly made you two question your own stance and experience with addiction thereby..lashing out on me. In a nutshell. ..it just shows your insecurities. Instead of kicking me while i am at a very obvious fragile state, I actually came here seeking advice. And yes. All it takes is 7 days for me. Every time.

When the above poster said something about six weeks...That's your personal experience. My personal experience is one full week. I feel nothing after the physical symptoms cease. Maybe some raised levels of depression or maybe a craving but thats all psychosomatic.

Go look at my very first post a month ago. I had the want to quit. I had the desire for sobriety.

Its great that you all dont use your drug of choice I suppose . But now you have a new drug of choice. What happens when the suboxone replacement comes out...or a cure medication for opiate withdrawal. Still not going to stop people.

Will you all read up on the actual pharmacological and scientific qualities and studies of opiates and opiods?

I never put anything into my body that I couldn't handle because I was always able to calculate precise dosage timing. You must realize by now that I am very calculated, calm, and collected.

Someone prove me wrong. Im still hoping for that in the back of my mind.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:39 pm 
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:roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:01 pm 
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I am sure it is plain as to whose colors are truly showing after such a display.

A tragedy...that a young man can register on a forum full of people filled with contempt for no readily apparent reason.

Why not jump off your high horse and come down to my level that you apparently placed me on with your condescending manner. Lets see how real it gets then.

Please...dont publicly display your false sense of security and I say that in the most respectful way.

Its just an internet forum. You are only another human being. You are nothing to be intimidated by so dont even try to "bully" me. Many wiser than you have tried and failed.

Try communicating rather than selfishly displaying your own personal vendetta.

I probably wouldn't last a day in your shoes and I recognize that so I dont even try to pretend I could last a day in yours.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:54 am 
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Feelin,

Welcome to the site. I have to say that Tiki and Jennjenn, and others have offered you valuable advise based upon their personal experiences as well as interactions with others on this site and in their own lives. It would be wise to reflect upon it, rather than engaging in mental jousts and intellectual elitism.

Respectfully,
Morphing


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Morphing,

Thank you for your well thought out, clear and concise reply. While I considered the points Tiki and Jennjenn made (and appreciated them since they too are also struggling with this disease called addiction), I feel as though they be close-minded about what I am trying to say. Not stating that they ARE close minded...because being an addict means keeping a VERY open mind obviously, rather.. just stating that simply because they found what works for them to "beat" their addiction - doesn't mean anything I might say on here or my thoughts are "wrong".

I meant no offense, I was simply trying to bring up some very valid and very real points associated with my current problem. Everyone has a past. Everyone makes serious mistakes at some point in their lives.

There is an old saying that goes: "Don't look down on someone unless you are trying to help them up."

I believe that applies to addicts, and addicts reaching out to others for help, and even if I am hard to shake at first, after some careful thought, I am sure if I had positive re-enforcement and a half-way decent support system, that I could stand somewhat of a chance.

I feel as though my habit makes me a "better person", but at the same time...I know that at the end of the day...in the back of my mind...if I can't beat a little pill, then being an engineer means nothing. Being a dad means nothing. Being alive means nothing. I know that. I want help more than I would like to admit.

If I were in any of your shoes, and "beat" my addiction or have been maintaining at least with suboxone, and a new member who is clearly in distress and realizes he has a huge problem...I would lend my hand, eyes, and ears to them, simply because I know what it feels like to be all alone and get the short end of the stick.

I am seeking the wisdom of others. At least, I am trying to. And how can I truly seek the wisdom of others without first bringing up my own points and thoughts? Just because I am resistant and reluctant to change my habit, doesn't mean that there is "no way I ever could".

Anyways - for the record - Morphing is a clever screen moniker. I like how that fits into the atmosphere of the site. Very creative.

Jennjenn and Tiki, I apologize if I offended anyone. This is a support website. We are all in the same boat here so to speak. We all have the same problem, it's a lifelong battle that I have no choice but to fight now because I gave in to it's power.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Hello Feelin the Blues,

I think that you have truly thought this out precisely and thoroughly. I will give you that.

Addiction is a monster of a disease. The step by step reasoning you have to go back and use is what our addictive minds are convincing us to do.
I use to do the exact same thing to get my drugs. I would dress up and look like a " presentable person" to allude the cops.
I never got in trouble with the law but that didn't matter.
The ups and down of using the short acting opiate changed my personality. I was never " leveled out" I would either be high and in a "great mood" or it was wearing off and i was in a bitter edgy mood.
The short acting opiates made me unpredictable .
Suboxone does not get me high but it does level me out and give me just enough to be able to work on myself. I go to counseling.
I think you are "too smart for your own good" ....and i mean this in the best way possible. I can tell that you are really intelligent. I would go seek out a professional in psychiatry who really knows the ins and out of addiction. They will have some great answers for your questions because of their own experience speaking with other addicts.

Short addicting opiates also do not work the same. You have to keep taking more and more to get the same effects.
Suboxone works using the same dose and over time, your body really needs less and less of it to produce the same effect.
For me Suboxone is what i can count on to work for the long haul. I can rest assure thati can take the same amount of suboxone every day and it will product the SAME effects everyday. Not to mention the fact that you can obtain it legally and still dress as a homeless person to get it. instead of a three piece suit. lol.
I think you are still looking to get high. And Suboxone is not going to really give you the "high" that you are looking for. But...it will give you the peace of mind that you are not going to "run out" or have to take more and more of it. to achieve the same effects.

I have been on suboxone since 2009 and I got off of it for a year and during that year I too relapsed. I did get back on it because I was simply tired of the rat race of having to go to my dealer and waste so much time with all that .

Getting suboxone , I feel like a "normal person" and it doesn't wear off if take it correctly everyday.

I think you are trying to talk yourself into using again and that is addictive brain at work. once i steadied out on Suboxone on a maintenance dose, I did not need to talk myself back into using becausee I was content with what i felt like.
I can actually say that i am truly happy being on suboxone. But it took some time and working on myself through counseling.
Good luck to you!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:31 am 
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I'm taking psychopharmacology as we speak, so I do know plenty about the physiological effects on the body from opiods and their metabolites.

I've barely skimmed through your stuff because your behavior is close enough to trolling that I'm not going to bother. Go somewhere else to get your rise out of people. Don't mess with people who are actually serious about recovery, since it is obvious you are not.

Members. Don't feed the troll.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:36 pm 
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Actually, you members can do whatever you want. I only meant to say that this poster is not interested in a real conversation or debate that would further anyone's understanding of anything. The agenda expressed by this poster is not collaborative. He only seeks to advance his own belligerent stance. So, feel free to respond to him. It's your right. Just understand that you will not come to any understanding with him.

I'm moving this thread to where it belongs.

Amy

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