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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:26 pm 
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not seeing any responses posted to my other topic, i suppose i can be a bit impatient so i'll ask a broader question [am new here so i don't really know how active this board is]
have been an iv h user for going on 5 years now [ugh] & have obtained some subs so i can try to quit finally. managed to wean myself down to 1 bag per shot from 4, using once in the morning once when i get home from work & once before i go to sleep. from what i've read i am seeing a lot of varying reports on how long i should wait after i do my last bag to take the first sub, anywhere from 24 to 72 hours [which sounds like a ridiculous amount of time but i've never done this before so i can't really judge...]. anyway which is closer to the right amount of time? i'm familiar with the COWS scale, should i just do it based on that & forget about the number of hours altogether? can't say i'm really looking forward to the discomfort but if i do it properly i won't have to go through it again so i am prepared to deal with it...also taking otc meds like loperamide/zantac won't interfere with the process will they? i know loperamide binds to some opiate receptors but not to the ones that get you high so it seems to me it would be safe. anyway any advice is appreciated. glad this forum is here.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:58 am 
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I think part of the lack of response is that many of the more active posters are fans of doing it right-- i.e. finding a doc, and letting someone who treats addiction for a living take over your health care. If you had cancer, would you buy some chemo and take your best guess about how to use it? I realize that addicts KNOW opioids... but they don't know how to end the psychological hell that comes with them. That hell will follow you to buprenorphine as well, in many cases-- unless you turn your care over to someone else. One of the things addicted doctors learn, right away, is that if they want to stay alive, their days of self-treatment have to come to an end-- even for minor ailments.

Speaking in generalities...i.e. not as your doctor.... the time one waits before induction depends on factors like the patient's tolerance, and the half-life of the drugs he/she is currently using. A person on 100 mg of methadone needs a good week off methadone-- or more-- to avoid PW. Same for someone on the fentanyl patch-- which leaves the body VERY slowly.

Someone with a lower tolerance is less likely to have PW, even with a shorter interval of abstinence.

The ideal patient is someone with a tolerance about equal to 60-80mg of oxycodone per day, who takes only short-acting oxycodone or hydrocodone, and who is off everything for about 24 hours. On the other end of things, I induced a gal who had been on 25 mcg/hr fentanyl patch, who stopped it for three days--- and she got very sick.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:26 pm 
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there are two reasons i would not trust this to a doctor & that is that every doctor i have ever been to with the exception of the people at cornell who did my skin graft surgery has fucked me over 100%, not sure whether in an attempt to extract more money from me or just because they were clueless but in general i do not trust them. even the people at cornell i believe kept me in the hospital a week & a half longer than they needed to do to a 'test' version of the surgery supposedly to make sure the skin graft would stay in place which i believe was totally unnecessary so i could lie around in my hospital bed getting fat & bored out of my skull with nothing to do but watch tv [which is way more toxic than opiates will EVER be] & read my rapidly diminishing supply of books.
the other problem with doing this medically is that i am still on my parents' health insurance & if something like that comes up on their bill they'll disown me. they do not know i have this problem as i do not live with them & i am not interested in sharing this with them as i do not think they will be particularly sympathetic. i've already put them through enough shit with asking for money etc [which fortunately i don't have to do anymore as i have two jobs but they do still pay my stupid exorbitant rent & living expenses & this is one of the reasons i want to get off this asap so i can actually support myself/get a better job/improve my life in general & not feel so guilty anymore]
basically the medical route is not an option. it will just create more problems than it could possibly solve.
[& yes if i had cancer i would probably try to obtain my own chemo meds & do it myself...;)]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:56 pm 
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"basically the medical route is not an option. it will just create more problems than it could possibly solve."

This is why it's a bit hard to respond to your post. If you don't fully acknowledge and accept that shooting bags of dope is a) your biggest problem and b) THE biggest problem you could possibly have, you're not ready for real help.

I understand that you believe a few days/ weeks of sub treatment will do the trick in curing your heroin habit, but sadly, that is not the case. Go ahead and try it.. been there done that. At best you'll stay clean for a few days.. MAYBE a week.. then score some dope to just do one shot. Around and around you'll go.

You don't have to put treatment on your parents insurance. You can pay for it yourself. Just get treatment or you will be stuck in this vicious cycle for a long time. <----- And that is best case scenario. Worst case is dying. I am sure your parents wouldn't be too thrilled with that scenario, either.

As far as when to use sub after heroin, it's hard to say. The reason being is because we don't know what it's cut with. If it's cut with long acting opioids, you'll need more time off it. I've always had luck with around 24 hours but that's a vague, general number being thrown out there. Wait as long as you can and use the cows scale. Heroin typically leaves the body fairly fast, so if you're feeling really sick, you're probably safe. Just don't jump the gun. Wait til you're physically sick, not just mentally craving..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:03 am 
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5 years.. U are going to need to be on sub for a long time.. W or without a dr, plan on being on sub for 5 months minimum.... And maybe for life. U are trying to return from the deepest parts of the desert, make sure u have water for months!


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