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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:23 am 
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I have an unexpected medical procedure coming up in the next week or so. A heart catherization, that I am not looking forward to. I am in need of advice on anything anybody wants to tell me about twilight surgery and suboxone and heart cath. I currently take 6mg. daily. I see my sub doc next week and I see him every two months. We were supposed to go down to 4 mg. on Wed. and then in 2 months maintain me at 2 mg. But now I think I need to just stop all together and just deal with any with-drawl symptoms. My sub doc has called me back, but of course I missed his call. So I will see the heart doc on Monday before I can even talk to my sub doc. It's a mess and I don't know what to do. The last thing I need is more stress and worry. I just copied this part from from the welcome site.


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 Post subject: Thank you
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:09 am 
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Thanks to donh and laddytripper and some general reading on my own I feel better already. I am worried about my telling my heart doc about the sub as I have not disclosed that to him in the year he has treated me. I hate being dishonest, but I have been treated not so well by a hand surgeon THE SECOND he found out I was on sub. Definantley treated me like an addict and refused to mange my pain after the surgery. So I said, screw it and never had the surgery done and none of my other docs except the sub doc knows I am on sub. Now I have to face talking to my heart doc and coming clean. I have so much respect for this man and he is a wonderful heart doc. I guess we will see how good he is when I drop this on him. I think I am going to tell him why I kept it undisclosed. Because the last surgeon treated me like crap and this stuff has saved my life. I had a legit reason I was addicted to pain meds. I have terrible chronic back pain with arthritic bone spurs in my thoracic spine due to years of my job, then I had a series of little surgeries every 10 months or so that required the pain meds and I just became addicted. If it wasn't a bad tooth then it was a painful fistula in my rectum (I know-OUCH) that got immediately infected and had to be lanced. Oh yea we are having big fun now. Then a year later it got reinfected and I had to have another surgery. Then I got terrible bronchitis thrown in there a few times and you get the good cough syrup.....NO WONDER i got to liking that stuff. I am not going to sit there and tell that man all that but I did not buy stuff off the street. I am a respectable, church going. professional in my community. I tried to get off last year and actually was off sub for 6 or 7 months and then I got rear ended and that messed my back up and was prescribed Vicodin. Did I turn it down? NO! So after that, I had to go back on. I was too afraid of what would happen and I didn't want to go back to that hell. I've been on 8 mg. for almost a year. Now I am on 6 mg. and next week at my 2 month appt with sub doc we were going to drop to 4 and 2 months later to 2mg. IDK, dumb stuff with my body always gets in the way of my recovery. I think I am more nervous talking to my heart doc than the surgery itself. Thanks again for the replies. It helped a lot.
Blessings.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:57 am 
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Hi ToothFairy :lol: ,

Wowzers, you've been through the ringer you poor thing. I was just reading where you were off of sub for 6 or 7 months then you were in a car accident and got back on Vicodin....CRAP, that just sucks royally!! Well, at least you had the presence of mind to get back on Suboxone.

I would have responded to your post earlier, but I've never had experience with Suboxone and surgery and I wanted to let someone with more knowledge than I respond to you.

Anyway, I'm glad Laddytippy and Donh got back to you.....they're both real smart cookies.

I hope your surgery goes well!

Oh Yeah, my daughter lost a tooth today, she will be expecting a $20 under her pillow from you!! :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:07 am 
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Uh Oh, my daughter woke up this morning and there was only $1.50 under her pillow, she is out for blood!!

I tried to explain to her that things are just tough all over, but she would have none of it....she wants to know what's up? :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: sedation...while on Sub
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:44 am 
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Hi,

I just want to try to help relieve your anxiety about your upcoming cath. I am a nurse anesthetist, although not currently practicing, and have done a lot of those cases with fentanyl and versed....last week I had an emergency molar extraction with debridement of the maxilla and I didn't get a chance to stop my Sub. You can check under surgery and sub for my post but what I did might just work for you, too.

I didn't stop Sub at all. I took my usual dose on the morning of the procedure. (6mg). I told my oral surgeon that I take a medication that makes it so the normal dose of sedation meds don't work..that I might need more. He did the procedure with just 100mcg fentany and 8.5mg versed. That's a lot of versed for a normal person but someone on sub would probably need that. I did great, didn't feel anything, don't remember much at all...and then postop for just one day I took 7.5mg Lortab (hydrocodone) and 800mg ibuprofen every 3-4 hours...I ended up taking 9 lortab that first 24 hours and I felt fine. The ibuprofen probably did more for me than anything really....

But I know that they'll numb the area up that they put in the cath, and using just some fentanyl and versed will do the trick for you...I'd tell the anesthetist or whoever is doing the sedation that you will most likely need more, that your tolerance is high due to sub. It's up to you if you decide to tell them about the Sub, but in this case I would because if for some reason there was any kind of emergency they would need to know that you'll need a different anesthetic than most.

Not to scare you but just my opinion. Pm me if you have any other questions and I hope everything goes well for you.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:17 pm 
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Well Romeo,
Twenty dollars for a wee little tooth is way out of question, even by todays standards. When my daughter lost her first tooth, it was a dollar coin and and a beanie baby. I told her the first ones are the most precious and are worth the most. :wink: andto not expect the extra surprise each time.

Thanks for the moral and support.


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 Post subject: thanks china girl
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Thank you for your advice. I was reading your dental horror story last night. Poor thing. I have been in dentistry for 25+ years. For a long time when I wasn't full out addicted that is where I would get my occasional high. Our office is open concept so when I hear of a pt. getting Vicoprofen or percocet, my ears perk up and just for a second I'm craving. The sub helps me to remember that even if I did have it, I wouldn't feel anything or get a high so why bother and the LAST thing I want is to become addicted again. Sub helps me to keep my mind straight about using. No cravings, no mishaps except when my body starts acting wonky and I need pain meds. I had one bad experience telling a surgeon that had no info on the drug and I think he took it wrong. IDK I wish there wasn't such a stigma. I do know that prescription pain pills are becoming the #1 way to get high and there is a 70% increase in abuse. So I have a feeling there will be more and more knowledge about sub and its helpfulness to stay drug free. Even though my heart doc is amazing, I doubt he will be doing the surgery. I really need to talk to the anesthesiologist who will helping me that day.

Thanks again for the advise,


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 Post subject: Cath needed
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Yep. Have to have a cath. I talked to my heart doc and he knew a bit about sub but couldn't figure out why I was on it. So I told him my story. I was honest and told him I have been on Sub two years. I told him that it would only be a problem after the surgery if I needed pain control. He said they don't give anything for pain after. Now, have I just been lied to? Every single person I have talked to tells me that groin area hurts like you know what.

I see my sub doc tomorrow night. Should I ask him to give me a written ok to have pain meds via IV if needed? Or ask him if the surgeon can call him and get clearance.

I mean, like I read on here by someone, We deserve pain relief if truly needed. I'm not looking to go back on any pills. I want to get right back on my 4 mgs of sub asap.

This is why I hate that no one in the med field knows about this drug that really helps people! GGRRRRRR!!
Sigh,
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 Post subject: hope its not too late...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:55 pm 
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Not sure when you are getting your cath...but see if the cardiac dr. will talk with your sub dr or maybe the Sub dr can initiate the call to the cardiologist. This is crap. You need to have pain meds available if you have pain. That they don't give pain meds after the procedure is not accurate. There is usually a huge sandbag on the femoral artery area to stop bleeding and many are uncomfortable. Unless he is doing something completely different.

I hope you get this organized before your cath. I'm so sick of hearing how patients do not get what they need due to fear, ignorance, judgment whatever. as I said a friend of mine had a procedure the other day and they didn't give him enough sedation and he had a miserable time, for no reason other than fear, imo.

You can't force the cardiologist to want to be interested in learning about Sub but I would push him a bit if you are comfortable. Bring him in literature, offer him the site to see Dr j videos and info on pain management....and depending on the facility sometimes you will have an anesthesia provider pushing the sedation and hopefully they will know about sub. Hopefully...so at least you are comfortable during the procdure. The thing is they don't even have to know that much, they can know that you might need more then the average patient and then just go with what you need, which will be obvious if they are paying attention, KWIM?

It's so frustrating to have to be doing all this footwork for your medical providers, right? But, sadly you do. Remain calm and professional about it and hopefully everyone will listen to you...if not, then you can scream!! LOL

Let us know what happens...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Another surgeon is doing the procedure and I just talked to his nurse. They wanted to do it next Tuesday and I just can not afford to be off work in the middle of the week like that so it is now scheduled for Thursday May 5th. This is the first surgeon that I originally met in the ER with my first tachycardia event. I loved his bed side manner and he was very nice and caring.
This gives me time to come down to 2 mgs.

Do you think I could go into surgery with 2 mgs. on board or should I be off completely by May 5th?

I really feel like if I am hurting or awake enough he will give me the meds I need. He seemed very compassionate. The nurse even said that some people snore through it and some people lay there and watch the monitors and screens, but that if I was uncomfortable I could just tell him. I have had Versad many times and I have no problems with it at all. I am out like a light.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:10 pm 
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I was taking subs for 15 months. I had a total hysterectomy 5 weeks ago. I told everyone about what meds I was on, including the hospital, dr., and my sub dr. I was only taking 2 mg a day. Sub dr. Told me I could take it up until day day of surgery. So I didn't take the day of. BIG mistake. It stays on your receptors for at least 72 hours. I was given a morphine pump following surgery and that did nothing. I have had 3 c-sections and NEVER had the pain like this. They could not give me toradal until 3 hours after surgery due to possible bleeding. Please trust me on this one -I would taper off 3 days before surgery. You will have wd, so do it as slow, but fast as possible. I sound like a nut, but honestly, the way I found this forum was when my husband was with me in the hospital trying to research why I had so much pain. He found this site and told me what happened, as I was suffering. I wish I would have done me research ahead of time.

I guess everything happens for a reason. I went back to pain meds for 2 weeks post-op, then got extremely sick, went back to subs, .67 mg, and weaned myself down and off after 2 weeks. I have bee sub and opiate free for 9 days now. Maybe that wouldn't have happened if I didn't go through that he'll in the hospital.

I wish you the best, and if you need any further insight don't hesitate to ask or pm me.


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 Post subject: Thank you
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Gonnastop...for the insight. I saw my sub doc tonight and he and I discussed going down to 2 mg for a few days and then maybe 1 mg and try to be off 5 days prior to surgery. Of course, I am not facing anything as serious as a hysterectomy , but I will heed the warning. I didn't even get a refill from the doc tonight. It will MAKE me get off. I have gotten off before ok. I know you just can't jump off at 4 mgs. So today i have only had 2 mgs. and I will see how I feel tomorrow. I would like to have some of the "build up" of the med deplete itself out of my system. I actually feel relieved.

That is so sad that you suffered through that and a qualified doctor and nursing staff couldn't tell you what was wrong. Your husband had to look it up. If pain pill addiction is supposed to be this national tragedy and emergency, then why aren't the sub docs and the surgical community discussing this and getting on the same page!?? I picked up a patient info packet from the actual drug Suboxone and read it front and back. All it says is to tell your doctor that you are on this med. Well what good does that do when the MD doesn't know anything about it?

Good wishes for your sobriety, I hope I am right behind you. At least I know that I can see or call my sub doc anytime.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Good for you. At least you have a good sub dr. I called mine up the day before my next appt. And told his secretary I would not be coming back. I also informed her to please pass the message to his patients before having surgery. I am done. She was happy for me for getting off the subs! How weird is that. Oh well. My thinking is always this....everything happens for a reason. We may not always know the reason at the time, but we figure it out along the way..

Take care of yourself and I wish you the best with your recovery. Stay strong


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 Post subject: A-ok SO FAR
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:53 pm 
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[font=Georgia] [/font] Down to 1 mg. today. Have one week to be off. Wish me luck please. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:18 pm 
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You can do it! It won't be easy. Try tp get clonidine, and maybe jump at .25 or less if u can. I know that is fast, but you will be in wd one way or another. If you jump at 1 mg it will be a lot tougher. Try to exercise, just walking. Also, listen to music-the louder the better. You will make it- promise!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:06 pm 
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I don't know why I felt I needed that extra 1/4 2mg. tablet, but I just did. Tomorrow I will try and only take 3/4 of a 2mg. tablet. It seems to be at work when I am stressed and my back is killing me that I feel that need to take the sub. I have until Sunday to be off completely so I need to get serious here. I am really nervous about next week about W/D. I have to work on Monday which might not be a problem but Wednesday is going to be rough. I might line up someone to work for me so I can just be in bed. I really have felt ok until today. I got kind of "clammy" at work today, my feet were KILLING me, maybe a bit nauseous. It wasn't terrible, but I really wanted to just get home.
So we shall see.
:|


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:24 am 
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Why don't you cut the pill in half, take that and cut it in half again. Try and take .25 in the am and then another .25 later in the day when you start feeling yucky. Try to give it more time before taking more. Sometimes that is all it takes.

Dis you find out about clonidine? I think that may help ease some wd and allow you to sleep through a portion of it.


Let me know what the dr said about that Keep working at it! You will do great!


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:12 pm 
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Well yesterday, Saturday, I took my last 1/4 mg. crumb. I don't know if its in my head or what, but I already feel like crap. I am not going to work tomorrow, which makes me sick because I need the $. There is no way I can do my job feeling light headed, dizzy, legs aching plus making my heart race. I'm scared. I don't want to feel like crap for the next 3 days before I have to have a procedure. It's all I can think about and I have been crying a lot. I'm scared I won't be able to sleep tonight. I am so sick of this merry go round. Please pray for me this week. Maybe Thursday will bring me some much needed relief. :cry:


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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:28 pm 
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I know you are scared.. But I promise you it will be ok. Did you get anything for wd? If not, excedrin works well for body aches. Get some Tylenol pm to help u sleep. I would try and sleep through the rough part as much as poss. I am praying for u. I am glad u stopped before the surgery. You would not want to deal with what I did. At least u will not deal so much with wd in hospital. Ask for more pain meds if u need them. Subs are strong- so don't be afraid to ask. Toradal works great too, and it is nor a narcotic . Best of luck to you, please let us know how u do.


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 Post subject: Monday
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:38 pm 
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It's Monday around 1:00 P.M. my time. I didn't go to work today although I feel like I could have soldiered through it. I had a headache when I got up this morning, took my regular meds and some ibuprofen and went back to bed. I have been sleeping fairly well. I think I was just scared to death that I was going to feel like crap and have to do my job which is impossible during withdrawal. BELIEVE ME. I am still concerned that the worst is yet to come since I tapered so rapidly and probably still have some stack in my system. I am sssooooooooo grateful that my boss is understanding. She has been on anti depressants and tried to stop cold, so she knows how terrible it feels. I have been up front with her the whole way through my week in detox 2 years ago and now having to get off the sub to have this cath done. She wants me to feel better and find out why I am so out of breath all the time. I have a stinking suspicion it could have been the sub all along. IDK, I just am not going back on and I will just have to say no to narcotics after this. The last time I had to get off we were losing our insurance and I had plenty of time to go slow and only had a couple of days that I felt dizzy. I will say that my feet have been bothering me. I rubbed them together for a while last night. Some mild aches...I've been in bed forever. haven't felt like doing too much. I feel guilty too for not going to work. I know its a head game for sure. I'm a thinker, and when I get to thinking on something, I can't quit until it's resolved. Pray for me!!!
Thanks Sher!!!!!

Conni


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