It is currently Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:30 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 124 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:47 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Well...when I think of the "disease talking" I think of denial or someone drug seeking. I don't think you are doing that. I think you are honestly having these symptoms and are trying to find out what is causing it so they will go away. I am not ruling out the possibility that it is psychological but what difference would that really make because you are still feeliing it all the same. So no matter which way you look at it, you do need someone to help you with this. I am all out of ideas for you though. If your pupils are large then you should tell your doctor that because that is a physical symptom that ought to catch his attention.

I can only imagine how hard this is for you. My parents aren't the greatest in the world and I still want them around. I also can't imagine doing this at 18. It is hard enough at 33. Do you have any relatives that you are close with? I am glad you find some comfort in the forum even though we are all a world away and on line. It works for me in many ways though and a lot of the time better than anyone who is physically present. Keep posting and letting us know how you are doing. I am quite curious to see how this turns out or if you can get a doctor to give you a cause for this.

Take care!
Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:20 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
Hello everyone, hope you had a nice weekend..

I'm still feeling just terrible; I've really been analyzing my feelings and it's as follows:
-I take my morning dose at about 7am - 8am .. and it works pretty well, the sweats almost stop and I feel halfway decent. Then I take my middle dose at about 2-3pm and by this time I am already starting to feel miserable then and it builds from there. I take my last dose between 9-10 pm, and by this time, I'm miserable.. I'm up all night after with sweats, vomitting and diarrhea. I just dont understand these feelings, but I'm certainly going to have a talk with my doctor Friday.

I have been doing some research online and found this interesting..
3 – If you take Suboxone while very physically dependent on opiates

Suboxone is said to have a ceiling effect. That is, it will work very well up to a certain point, but after that point, it can't really work any more.

Some people with heavy addictions won’t find that buprenorphine can give them enough relief from withdrawal symptoms. These people will likely need to start with methadone instead.

Likewise, although people can transfer over from methadone to buprenorphine, they must be down to about 30 mg a day before they can transfer to Suboxone and not feel withdrawal discomforts.
Any opinions on this?

I also wanted to ask another question. I have chronic tension and migraine headaches. My doctor usually subscribes me either furenal (sp) or phenerlin forte. Are either of these OK to take with the suboxone? please let me know :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:27 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
I do have one more question after reading a few posts, I'm concerned if I'm absorbing the suboxone the wrong way.

I keep it under my tongue for about 5 minutes until there are basically crumbs left, then I take a big drink and swallow the remainder down.. I have a feeling I'm doing this wrong, any suggestions?


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:00 am 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:53 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Texas
Mia,

Hey....I haven't written in yet, but I have been following the topic. I just read your last post, and it sounds to met like you may not be leaving the suboxone under your tongue long enough to absorb the medication. Most people need AT LEAST 10 minutes, and many need more (some up to an hour) time for the medication to dissolve and absorb. I suggest you go to Dr. Junig's blog post (Talk Zone Blog)....there is a recent post from a few days ago about getting max absorption. Also, there is a thread under this topic called "how do you take your sub" that has a lot of information about different techniques...I think it is currently the first post.


I, for example, swallow three or four times to make sure there is no spit in my mouth, then place the sub under my tongue, wait 10-15 minutes until it is a paste, then spread that all over my mouth to coat all the surface, then wait about another 10-15 minutes (assuming I am taking a 2mg tablet).....I start when I get in the shower and am done by the time I am dressed...or, I take it in the car. Also, I don't eat or drink anything for at least 15 minutes after i take it.

Some people are really sensitive to the nalaxone in the Suboxone, so they spit out the remaining stuff instead of swallowing...that may help some of your symptoms.

Hope this helps...I'm kinda tired right now, so I may not be making too much sense :) but definitely check out the other posts about absorption.

Take care, welcome to the forum!! Good night and good luck!! :wink:

Elizabeth

_________________
Elizabeth

Subs Not Drugs!!!

"Don't hope for a life without problems. An easy life results in a judgmental and lazy mind."
- Zen Master Kyong Ho


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:46 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:32 pm
Posts: 228
Hey Mia!
First let me say I am so sorry for your losses. I lost my father when I was 8 yrs old (he was 36) so I feel your pain, and I am so sorry you are dealing with all of this.
When I take my suboxone, I let it under my tongue until it's dissolved completely, and I do not swallow any saliva for half an hour while it's in my mouth and I do not eat or drink, or smoke for 20 mins after that. There are some great posts in this forum about how to take it for max absorbtion. Def/ check them out. I really don't think you are getting enough of the meds the way you are taking them. It's pretty time consuming to take it the way I do , but it works really well that way.
After changing the way you take them and it's still happening I think you should talk to your fam dr and get a full work up just to make sure nothing else is going on.
Keep your head up and keep us posted on how you are doing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:08 am 
Hey Mia - I've also been thinking about your situation a lot. I went back and reveiwed your posts from the beginning. The fact that you have gotten worse over that last 2 weeks and are experiencing vomiting, diarrhea and sweats makes me think that you may have an active infection. Have you had any fever? Mabe the reason you feel a little better after you daytime doses is that the bupe is just covering symptoms. If your own doc won't listen I would consider going to a walk in clinic or ER. Something is definately beyond the norm. Even people who have gotten off opiates without the help of Sub are not as sick as you are at 8 weeks out.
Be assertive - or even pushy if you have to. Or get a friend to go with you. Just get to a doctor and get some real help. You seem to be getting worse instead of better - and other then be here to support you we really can't be of much help. Please do whatever it takes to take care of yourself as hard as it may be to drag yourself out. We care about you and want you to get better.
Please keep us posted on how you're doing.
Lilly


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:36 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
Wow, after alot of reading I think I see what the problem is.. it is obvious that I am taking them the wrong way!

I never had an "induction", I don't even know what that is... I just started to withdrawal in the hospital 2 days after my overdose, so they just started me on it.. they originally didn't even tell me to put it under my tongue! 5 days later I asked a nurse why it wasn't working AND then she told me to let it dissolve.. no instruction on how to though.

So again, here's what I have been doing.. and I'm really new to this. Any detailed instruction on how to dissolve them would be really helpful. SO, I take the full 8mg tab and put it in the center of my tongue, I normally take a drink of some type of juice or pop first, then if I need a drink while it's under my tongue I take one. I then let it dissolve under my tongue for what seems to be 7-8 mins.. by this time, there is normally just a few crumbs left which I take a few large swallowfuls of some type of liquid and swallow it down.. I am not a big fan of the taste (unlike the taste of oxy contin which I enjoyed having in my mouth lol).. BUT, if it means I will get out of the withdrawal symptoms I am having then.. by all means I will try anything. I keep reading about some type of 'paste' forming and people rubbing it around their mouth.. but the thing is, I never notice any type of paste so yeah suggestions are really needed. IT would be ideal if I can get a few suggestions in the next 3hrs, before my last dose of the day is due.

I noticed in the other post, some people shared how they were taking their meds and got some replies just tearing into them, basically calling them idiots! MY responses however have all been really great and really supportive.. please keep them coming.. I SO appreciate the nice thoughts.

I also wanted to ask if any of you have tried Zyprexa to sleep with the subs.. my psych gave me a script for 15mg zyprexa to take at night time to sleep.. WHO knows, I may not even take it.. They have given me trazadone in the past too but I've heard lots of bad things so I didn't really try it.

Again, I'm new to all of this.. As I said, I am 18 and I have been taking prescription pills for the last 3-4 yrs, but I never went out on the street to get them.. NO, this does not by any means make it any better.. I am just trying to share why I am not very knowledeable about any of this.. Alright guys.. suggestions pleasee!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:48 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I think it's entirely possible that you're not getting very much of the suboxone into your system. The paste people are talking about is this: Dr. J suggests biting the pill with your front teeth, with your saliva this becomes a paste (for lack of a better word). Use your tongue to distribute it on all the mucous membranes in your mouth (under your tongue, inside of your cheeks, etc.). Many people then hold the saliva in their mouth for up to 45 minutes. Personally, I can't do that - just can't NOT swallow for that long. But hold it without swallowing for as long as you can. Then don't drink or eat anything for another 15 or 20 minutes. This practice maximizes absorption. See Dr. J's blog on the subject as well.

Some people just let it dissolve FULLY under their tongue without the chewing. But still hold the saliva for as long as you can and don't eat or drink anything for 15 or 20 minutes.

Does all this make sense? I SO hope this helps you.

As for the sleep meds, I don't know anything about Zyprexa, but I do take trazodone for sleep. It's an atypical antidepressant that nowadays is used most often for sleep. It's very safe to take with suboxone. If I recall correctly I was groggy for the first few mornings, but that went away quickly.

I hope this helps. I'm sure you're relieved just to finally have an idea of what it could be. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:47 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
Hmm.. I don't think I have any type of infection because I dont have any flu symptoms..

BUT, from reading the posts, I really do think we've solved what's going on.. I think I am def not absorbing enough medicine. It IS absolutely comforting to know that there is a reason why I'm feeling this way and I'm not just incredibly freakish, for lack of a better term.. I'm feeling absolutely terrible right now, so I'm looking forward to actually trying these new methods for my night dose and seeing if I FINALLY get any relief. I am sure that I may not get it right the first time, but atleast I have some things to try now. MORE ADVICE IS ALWAYS WANTED!

Thanks so much for advice I have received already.. it's refreshing to know that there ARE people out there who don't know me, yet are concerned with my situation and are trying to help. I am quite glad I stumbled upon this post through 'Google'


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:37 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
UGH.. first time trying new methods, DID NOT GO WELL!

I'll try to explain what I actually did so maybe I can get some suggestions on what to fix..

I did chew it into tiny pieces..the way I used to chew an OXY.. But I found that right after I did that, my mouth filled with saliva from the horrible taste. I held the saliva in my mouth for about 10 minutes and swished it around the inside of my cheeks and under my tongue.. like I said, I lasted about 10 mins then ended up gagging so I quickly had to swallow the remainder saliva and take a sip of pop.. Any suggestions on what to change and how to correct things?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:09 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
I don't even know that this is really the problem....although it could be. I was on about 280mg oxycontin per day when I got on sub. I never had an induction either. So I knew to put it under my tongue, but was told to just let it dissolve. So I would smoke with it because it made it go faster. I always swallowed the liquid as soon as it formed. I still didn't have withdrawals (we are all different though). I started off on 24mg per day. I ended at 12mg per day and will say I had a hard time going from 16mg to 12mg and I strongly believe that was because of the way I was taking it.

In terms of a tip with the new method, I had the same problem when I first tried it and here is what I did. I got my mouth real dry first. Put it under my tongue for about 10 minutes so it is nice and soft and my mouth has a chance to get used to the taste slowly. Then I chew it as fast as possible with my front teeth and quickly use my tonge to spread it all in my mouth and just keep doing that because as soon as I stop, my mouth will fill with saliva. I keep moving my tonge around until I can't really because there is too much saliva and then I hold it as long as I can and then swallow. The method really changes depending on what my mouth does because it doesn't always cooperate. Then I don't eat or drink anything for 20 minutes or so. I can almost tell because when I stop getting this tingly feeling I assume I can eat or drink at that point.

I am still not so sure this is your issue though. How did it go in terms of symptoms?

Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: don't be discouraged!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:38 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:32 pm
Posts: 228
I have a friend who tried the crushing it and putting the paste around their mouth too and the same thing happened to them, so everyone is different. While it may work well for some people it may not for everyone. Try it this way....

-before you put the pill under your tongue swallow all the saliva that is in your mouth.
-put the pill under your tongue
-let it dissolve but TRY not to swallow any saliva for 20-half an hour
-after that long swallow any saliva but if you still have some of the pill disolving, let it there and let it dissolve and hold your saliva again until it all dissolves.

I'm obviously not a dr, but this is what I do and it works GREAT! Try it that way and let me know how it goes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:48 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 52
It is true. Everyone is different. Maybe you need a higher dose. I did the same as you. I would just let it dissolve until there were a few crumbs left and I would swallow them. No biggie. There is no secret on how this works. If you were chewing oxi's, then maybe the 8mgs are not cutting through. But don't chew the Sub. Don't drink before or after for at least 15 minutes.
I too would smoke with it in my mouth with no problems. I don't understand what is happening. Maybe you have an allergy to something in the medication, although doubtful.
Just keep trying. It should be working if you are not swallowing it like a pill. I don't get it :?:


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:08 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
Well guys.. I haven't really mastered how to dissolve these pills yet.. I've tried letting it just dissolve under my tongue then chewing the remainder and kind of swishing it under my tongue and around my mouth, ive tried chewing it all into little pieces but a foam seems to form in my mouth and I end up gagging.. I do feel a little bit better.. I must be getting more of it then I was before.. but I'm still having alot of strange symptoms that I'm going to talk with my doctor about Friday..I've been thinking about it and have kind of knocked myself down thinking I didnt deserve to say anything because I wasnt credible because I had a drug problem but.. I had a 4.0, was almost valedictorian, I do a ton of community work with animals and have never even had a traffic ticket.. besides the fact that I self medicated sadness, I always have been the over all "good girl".. eat your heart out boys,lol. Seriously, though.. I'm not going to let this appointment be a 5 min thing, as soon as I have my script IN MY HAND, then I will start asking questions. Hope everyone is having a nice week.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:20 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I hear what you're saying about not being credible because we are addicts. Unfortunately, that's the way some people treat people like us. We can't change them any more than they can change us. That said, it doesn't make them or their behavior RIGHT and it doesn't excuse them. We have to keep doing our part to educate. Hopefully some of them will learn. Luckily not everyone treats us that way.

Of course none of this means you don't deserve your doctor looking into this and taking you seriously. Because you do deserve it. Remember that and stand your ground.

As for the suboxone - I can't do the chewing up thing myself either. I just break the 8 mg in half and put them both under my tongue. After it is all dissolved I swish around and hold it in my mouth for as long as I can before I swallow. I smoke right after but don't drink or eat for at least 15-20 minutes. Don't be so hard on yourself, let it dissolve and hold it as best you can.

Please let us know how you're feeling and if you're comfortable sharing, what the doctor says Friday. We care.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:08 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
Well.. following the pattern of everything else that has been happening to me, thing's have gone from bad to worse.. I'll post about it since some of you were kind enough to follow my progress, but honestly after this one, I don't think I will be posting much..I have alot to figure out.

As I think I stated, I have a "public urination" phobia...I simply cannot urinate in public places. The last few months my doctor has agreed to let me take a blood test, but suddenly this month, gave me my final script telling me he was releasing me because I wasn't complying to the program. Needless to say, I didn't get to discuss with him the problems I've been having, he was too busy releasing me.. So, I'm at the point where I have to research and try to find a doctor in Ohio that will allow me to submit blood work versus an actual urine test. Do I think I'll achieve this?? Doubtful.. But, that's where I'm at. All I can say is I am not mentally or physically able to go through withdrawl. I don't know where things are going to go from here..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:38 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Mia, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I wish I knew what to say to make you feel better, more empowered. Is your doctor saying this is final? Do you have a psychiatrist that's treating your phobia that can try to bridge the communication gap? If you don't have one maybe it's the time to consider it. Such situations leave me feeling helpless and frustrated. I can only imagine what you're feeling and going through right now.

Please use this forum, for venting, support, ideas...That's why we're here. Maybe we can help make your burden feel a bit lighter. But if you have to step back for a while, then we'll be here when you're ready to come back.

Again, I'm sorry for all that's happened. Please keep us posted on how you're doing. We do care.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:49 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm
Posts: 635
I can certainly relate to the difficulty giving urine samples....luckily for me, my suboxone doctor is an extremely cool guy and he's only made me submit to two urinalysis tests in almost a year and half, and BOTH showed the presence of marijuana, which I still -very occasionally- use and he brushed it off as "not something I am concerned about"

He must be a libertarian :lol:

Seriously, though, I have chronic advanced Hepatitis C and the weed helps with nausea quite a bit, which is really the only reason I indulge any more, and it's extremely rare...maybe once a month, if that. Only when I'm feeling REALLY sick.

Now, as for the dosing correctly, I have never really bothered to try the "maximum absorption method" because simply allowing the tablets to dissolve under my tongue has always worked just fine for me. What I do is I have a drink of water first, and I make sure I swallow everything.....just to kind of rinse my mouth out. Then I put my dose under my tongue and just let it dissolve. I try to avoid swallowing for as long as I can, this usually lasts about 10 to 15 minutes, then, just before I swallow everything I kind of slosh it around in my mouth, then....down the hatch.

That seems to work for me and my school of thought is: If it ain't broken, don't fix it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:30 pm 
Hi Mia, that doctor sounds like a jerk. After what you just went through in the last 10 weeks I think it was irresponsible of him to just discharge you like that. Why did he say you weren't complying, just because of the urine test? My doc (who's not the best either) doesn't even require a urine. I would get right on the web and find a new doctor. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and you'll find someone much more compatable. You're a good person and you deserve to be treated with compassion. Do you have a regular doctor that you could see in the meantime about your physical symptoms?

I really hope you don't give up on Sub, and I hope you will stay with the forum. It really helps to have a sounding board. We may not have the answers to your problems, but we will be here to support you.
Hang in there. It will get better.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:07 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 40
I very much appreciate the supportive answers. I honestly just cant believe that I went into the doctors with the outlook that I was going to get help today, and in actuality, was dismissed. What I don't understand is, WHY the hell did he say a blood test was fine last month, and this month say it wasn't? That just doesn't seem right to me. I have found a suboxone OHIO directory and found a few doctors names, so as of Monday, I'm going to start calling around.. but I'm not quite sure how I am going to find a doctor who will allow me to take a blood test versus a urine test. Again, thank you all for your supportive feed back.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 124 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group