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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Hi Mia,

I'm glad you got an earlier appointment with the dentist, but I'm more than a bit dismayed that your new doctor thinks you don't deserve pain medication! As an informed, but non-medical person, I'm going to say there's no way that taking pain meds while on suboxone will put you into withdrawals. I've done it! So I know from both personal experience as well as what I've learned about this drug. It just doesn't work that way. If one has been taking full agonist opiates (pain meds) and doesn't wait long enough before taking suboxone, then yes, that person risks precipitated withdrawals. But not the other way around. Maybe - and this is just my opinion - you might want to consider continuing the search for a new suboxone doctor? One that knows how the medication works as well as respects you as a person who deserves to have their pain treated accordingly. Dental surgery is no picnic, but let's hope that it goes smoothly and OTC meds will suffice to treat your pain.

I hope my words haven't made things worse. I just wanted to be honest with you. Hang in there and let us know how it goes tomorrow - that is, if you're feeling up to it.

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Hatmaker: I was extremely annoyed about the pain aspect of things as well, because I also have done research. BUT, I'm what they call "behind the barrel". Because of my urine test phobia, I can't find ANY other doctor in this area to work with me, he's the only one.. so now I'm stuck with him. I'm really going to "suffer" for no reason tomorrow.. and I don't think I deserve that. You as well as anyone else who has been addicted to pills knows that IF you are someone who has been medicating things for a long time, then stop, pain feels a lot worse. Besides that, I have NEVER been good with pain.. and this time around I don't have my parents holding warm compresses on my face. I'm sincerely not looking forward to any aspect of this. But, as I've said, I'm royally stuck. If my uncle wasn't in the room, and didn't hear that whole no opiate speech, I wouldn't say anything about it to the dentist and be treated like everyone else is.. but, I have no control of my life right now and there's nothing I can do. Thanks for being honest with me, Hatmaker. I didn't want to say how I actually felt about it because I didn't want to be called out for "drug seeking behavior".. but this is how I really feel.


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 Post subject: hi mia
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Hi Mia,

Oh wow, I am so sorry to hear that. I'm glad you got a Sub doc that will work with you but it just amazes me where they get this information from. I have relapsed a couple of times, and believe me, what he said is not true. Now saying that, I also did not feel much of the oxy because of the sub blocking it, but it has been done many times.

Hatmaker did tell me hoe to dose Sub so that it worked better for pain, and what she said was to take 4mg or less of sub every four hours, and that would help with any pain issues. I certainly know this is not the best solution, but may be all you have. I just hope that once you get that tooth out, that it will feel a lot better and not be as painful as it is now. I know for me, that is the case, but again everyone is different.

That is nice that your uncle went with you. I know that he does not understand what is really going on with you, but he sounds at least supportive.

The good thing is, that after tomorrow, you will not be in any pain, so you can look forward to that. I am really proud of you for keeping a good average in school, that must have been very difficult with everything else that has been going on in your life.

Let us know how you make out tomorrow. Take care,
Ginger


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:41 pm 
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I just wanted to add from the medical side of things, ibuprofen actually works pretty well for a variety of dental pain. In fact, many patients report as much pain relief from 800mg of ibuprofen as they do from 5mg of Vicodin. Some actually say it works better for them. As an anti-inflammatory medication, ibuprofen has the ability to help address the soft tissue swelling that often occurs following dental work. The key, though, is you need to take more than the typical over-the-counter 400mg. There are also other non-narcotic meds that your dentist might be able to prescribe for you. You may want to ask him about these or at least get some 800mg ibuprofen. You might actually be surprised at how well it just may work for you.


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 11:49 pm 
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donh: I'm sure it does work.. but when I take it I get horrible reactions (blotchyness, burning stomach and vomiting). Are tylenol 3's an option? They do have codeine in them so prob not. I guess it's OTC stuff for me =(


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:11 am 
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Hey Mia,

I haven't posted, but I have been following this thread....you have gone through SO MUCH the past few weeks!!! No matter what else, you should be so proud of yourself for how you have handled things so far....I am always amazed at your maturity!

I too am very afraid of the dentist and hate pain, so I sympathize with your anxiety right now. The best I can say is to think that this WILL pass...focus on that as much as possible, especially if you are hurting.

As far as the ibuprophen reaction.....can you take Aleve? I have found that helps with muscle pain and general aches, and it may help with the dental pain as well. I worked for an oral surgeon, and he always recommended tylenol (he did prescribe Tylenol 3, but insisted that it was the Tylenol more than the Codine that helped with the majority of the pain). Also, make sure you have plenty of icepacks....they will make you feel MUCH better and control the swelling. After 2-3 days, if you are still hurting, you can switch to heat (no heat for the first few days as it can increase swelling). Also, if the doctor is going to numb you, you might ask him to use extra, or maybe even give you a dose b/f you leave (after the procedure), to see if that will help you through the first day.....not sure if that is an option, but it is an idea! Finally, you may want to try some Tylenol PM, even during the day tomorrow.....my husband had eye surgery and used it that day, and it helped him relax and sleep through most of the pain....if things get bad, you might want to try that as well.

Just some ideas.Try to get some sleep tonight (I know, easier said than done :) ). I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. Let us know how you are doing, when you feel up to it.

Take Care!!

Elizabeth

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:15 am 
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miabellamorte66 wrote:
Hey Ginger (:
I should have re worded.. Valium has never been addicting for ME..


Valium (diazepam) is addictive. That's a fact pretty much of equivalence to water being wet. I'm not trying to argue with you, Mia, but I would not want anyone to come on this site and think that maybe they can take Valium on a regular basis and not get addicted to it because of what you just wrote.

Valium is absolutely, positively, unequivocally addictive. And anyone who takes enough of it, with frequency, will absolutely become addicted to it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:33 am 
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I agree about the aleve. Ibuprofen I think works the best as far as OTC (I had an abscess a few months back on the sub and took 4 advil and it actually took the SEVERE pain away, and Im a huge pain wimp, no tolerance)
So, see if the dentist can write you prescription strength naproxen (same thing as aleve). Good luck today, and Im so happy you found a nice sub dr.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Thanks to everyone for the well wishes at the dentist. I found out that my former dentist messed what he did up so badly that I'm going to have to go to an endo something specialist and get 3 root canals. NOT looking forward to that.

Junkie:I thought we were over the valium discussion. If you read what you quoted from me, I said they have not been addicting for ME. Everyone is different. I am sure noone is going to start Valium because I said it wasn't addicting for me. As for the "addiction" aspect.. it's possible to develop a mental addiction to valium, however they don't cause physical withdrawals. Atleast this is was I was told by a psychiatrist, plus based on MY personal experience. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 3:43 pm 
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At the risk of getting everyone's panties in a bunch even more, let me try my hand at clarifying the whole 'is valium addictive' question.

Although Mia did NOT get addicted, the bottom line is valium is indeed a physically addictive drug.

I really hope this clears things up.

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:36 pm 
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miabellamorte66 wrote:
As for the "addiction" aspect.. it's possible to develop a mental addiction to valium, however they don't cause physical withdrawals. Atleast this is was I was told by a psychiatrist, plus based on MY personal experience. Thanks.



From the American Medical Association web site:
"Abruptly stopping treatment with Valium can lead to withdrawal symptoms such as heart palpitations, hallucinations, and personality changes. Because withdrawing from Valium can be dangerous, you should be sure to talk with your healthcare provider before you stop taking the medicine. He or she may decide to wean you off Valium slowly. Also, let your healthcare provider know if you develop any bothersome symptoms after you have stopped taking the drug."


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:43 pm 
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And just to clarify my intent here, I just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea about how dangerous valium can be.

I understand you were not taking it daily, mia, but if someone did a search of this forum for the word "valium" and came across your post in which you state that a psychiatrist told you it is not physically addictive, well, that's really some potentially dangerous information for an addict to have, not to mention it's factually inaccurate. Perhaps we're missing some context, though. My guess is if a psychiatrist told you this, the context was that you won't get addicted by taking it for occasional anxiety (which is true).

But if you take it regularly, then stop, you will experience some potentially horrific withdrawal symptoms.

How do I know this?

Because I was addicted to valium once, about 25 years ago. And the withdrawals were brutal.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Hmm.. no, the context it was said in was "unlike xanax, valium does not cause physical withdrawals". AFTER taking xanax for several years, I had horrific withdrawals. After taking valium for 8 months every day, and had no withdrawals.. this is just ME. I don't know how many more times I can say I'm not speaking for anyone else, just myself.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:23 pm 
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"unlike xanax, valium does not cause physical withdrawals".

This is not even a close call. I don't know what else to say. It's like debating the sun doesn't really rise in the east. I can't believe that any medical professional would ever say, "unlike xanax, valium does not cause physical withdrawals". And if they did I would suggest you run (not walk) but run in the other direction as this person has no clue what they are talking about. Again, this is akin to 2+2=4. There is no difference in that both xanax or valium will eventually cause physical withdrawals if taken over time. The amount of time for this to happen may be different between the two drugs and also different between various people. However, they are both benzodiazepines. They are just different "brands" or "flavors" of the same base drug. Just like gin and rum are both alcohol. Now, certainly just like different opiates have different characteristics to them, it is the same with xanax and valium. Xanax has a shorter half-life and generally starts to work quicker. There are other differences. However, at the end of the day, they will both cause addiction - or at least dependence - to every human being on the planet - regardless of how different or special they may think they are.

Again, this is as simple as two plus two. At some point, if enough is taken for a long enough time, valium does cause physical withdrawals - just like Xanax.


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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:36 pm 
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So, I'm not going to get into the Valium discussion.....

Mia....Sorry to hear about the need for root canals. Although I haven't had one, my sister has had several,and said they really weren't horrible....and she is a big baby! :) Seriously though, she said it was uncomfortable, but not so bad after.....she just used OTC stuff, and it was tolerable. After a day or two she was back to normal. So, at least you don't have to worry about a long,painful recovery period. I'm sure it isn't the most fun way to spend an afternoon, but it could be worse.

Hope you're not hurting too much while you wait to have the procedure.

Elizabeth

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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Thanks Ene... Sweet of you to check in! <3

This is my last comment on the valium issue. I do not think I an special or different.. however, the truth is the truth. I was on valium for a 8months-year period, taking them daily 3x a day and I never experienced physical withdrawal.. and YES, that is what a 40+ year psychiatrist told me. I'm so over talking about this though... I come to this site for support, not to be back on the debate team! I am not trying to convince or persuade anyone to agree/disagree or start valium, that's just ludacris! I only stated what it was like for me. After all, isn't that what this site is for? Sharing experiences?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:20 am 
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how can someone so sick w/d ing on 24mg type and explain so perfectly. i just don't get it.
or maybe i am just fucking sick sick sick if i was that sick i could not put my finger on the key. shit"


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:47 pm 
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sounds like what i was going through.... i complained and complained to my doc and he finally prescribed me subutex instead of suboxone and guess what i feel great on it and i only need to take half of what i was on suboxone... i was on suboxone for months and months feeling crapy and moody and felt like withdrawl symptoms as well but now im in a great mood and feel awesume....hats up to subutex.... to me suboxone sucks!! others may differ i guess but what works for me works for me... SOOOOO GLAD i made the switch.... :D


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:02 am 
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This is, without a doubt, the funniest and scariest thread I have ever read on a message board. The longer I think about it, the sadder it becomes to think about.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:21 am 
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what about Naproxen" it's a pain med for suboxone.

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