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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Ill keep this very short and to the point. Like many others i was addicted to roxies a long while back. when i decided to clean up i wanted to get on suboxone however i couldnt afford it so like anyone i went and got it off the street and tried for about a year to taper myself off of it but no luck i had. so about 4 months ago i got arrested for poss. I had 2 subs in my truck when they searched me and my co worker had a straw on him and dumped one in my truck therefore i got charged also with poss of parifenalia! WTF anyhow. I finnally got the money and time 2gether after i got outta jail to go to the suboxone doctor and told him i been taking about 1 and a half subs a day for the last year and couple months and have tried and tried to taper off myself and failed, i told him imcomming to him now because i never had the time or money untill now and i wanna get off them before they do harm or damage to my body if they havent allready. So he continue to keep me on 1 and a half a day but the film instead. He will gradually taper me off slowly and under supervision to make sure im good. When I went to my court date they offered me drug court here in florida and i had to take it cause if i graduate it will wipe the felony poss charge and the other misd from my slate. NOW i need to know because people are starting to tell me that the judge will NO WAY let you take it while in drug court and will order me to stop all at once! Can they do that?? Wont that like almost kill me after being on it for so long now?? Can someone PLEEEEASE help me in my question!!?? Its not that i wanna stay on it cause i dont i do however want to keep tapering slowly like my doc says to do then hopfully be done with it all after some months to a year. Can drug court just make you STOP subs cold turkey like that?? Or will they or do they HAVE to continue to have you tapper off them but now under their supervision?? I go for my Drug Court evaluation this wed! in the morn. But id like to know what to expect before then. Any help Would be AWESOME!! THANK YOU!!!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:29 pm 
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Crich, I'm so sorry that I don't have any answers for you, but I'm sure that there are people here who can help once they read your story. I'm guessing that it will really depend on what judge you get. Judges don't necessarily think inside the box, and they are used to having a certain amount of discretion in how they rule. But if you get a hardline judge who doesn't know anything about suboxone, he or she may expect you to stop the sub. Hopefully you pull a judge who has some compassion about addiction and knows about sub.

If it were me, I would try to get a letter from my doctor stating that you're under his care and why it's important to taper slowly. I don't know that it will help, but it couldn't hurt.

I'm sorry that you're going through this. You finally have things together and to be under the threat of having that pulled out from under you is scary. I wish you the best. And despite the fact that you're joining this forum for an unhappy reason, I want to welcome you here!

Please keep us informed with how it goes for you on Wednesday! Thanks!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
Crich, I'm so sorry that I don't have any answers for you, but I'm sure that there are people here who can help once they read your story. I'm guessing that it will really depend on what judge you get. Judges don't necessarily think inside the box, and they are used to having a certain amount of discretion in how they rule. But if you get a hardline judge who doesn't know anything about suboxone, he or she may expect you to stop the sub. Hopefully you pull a judge who has some compassion about addiction and knows about sub.

If it were me, I would try to get a letter from my doctor stating that you're under his care and why it's important to taper slowly. I don't know that it will help, but it couldn't hurt.

I'm sorry that you're going through this. You finally have things together and to be under the threat of having that pulled out from under you is scary. I wish you the best. And despite the fact that you're joining this forum for an unhappy reason, I want to welcome you here!

Please keep us informed with how it goes for you on Wednesday! Thanks!

Amy


Thanks Amy, this is just all really well... i dunno how to say it. I dont get it i guess. Although when they called me in for my very first drug screen last sat, i had brought both prescriptions of what meds im taking, both my VyVanse and my Suboxone and gave it to the drug testing people there. She looked at them and said "I dont see a problem with the VyVanse however Im not sure they will let you take the suboxone" I replied "Are you serious?? Its legit number one and I cant just Stop taking it cold turkey due to it will cause harm and medical problems for me from having taken it for so long and being at th dose that im at you cant just stop!" She then said well like i said im not for sure 100% but if they do request you cease taking it then they should taper you down properly" I said " Oh thank god! Because thats really what my Doc has me doing is a slow taper. Needless to say im just very nervous that they will prohibit my suboxone because ever since ive been clean from the pain pill my life has started getting better and better had a GREAT awesomepaying job with benifit and was livin the life. I was able to support my family and all. Then few months ago i got pulled over and searched cause my job was in a bad part of town and i was on break and there was a store right around the corner. Long story short they wrote the police report up and purposely left out important info as to why they pulled me over and what was found and said. Which is such BULLSHIT to me cause if they had put down everything in the report as it were i would have been able to fight my case and get off scott free but no they left out key things that were in my benefit that i could have used as proof of innocence. They left it out so that it looked like they had at least somewhat of a case. Gotta love our men in blue! So yeah i ended up gettin arrested and went to jail for about 24 hours, (this is my first offence by the way. Busted for having 2 suboxones with no script. OH YEAH onea the cops that were there had told me that because im a army vet and so was he he told me that it would be a smart idea to use my vet benefits, he says if you have any problems dude you should really go get them taken care of. So i did! And now to find out that i did the right thing and went to the doctor to taper off the subs the right and legal way, just to find out that by entering drug court i wont be able to take them anymore and to be honest! that SCARES the hell outta me. Cause I fear that if they do taper me off their way it will be too fast and ill get sick and bad things will happen to me. :( It just really sucks being that I have NO criminal record and then this happens. Also know this! The guy who was with me (also my co-worker) Whom HAS been arrested on numerous occasions and has a pretty long criminal record recieved the same exact charges AND the same exact disciplineary actions. Felony Drug Court. So now im wondering like why would i get the same justice as someone with a past of arrests and criminal activity??? In case you were wondering I am 27yrs old and the co-offender is 25... Sorry i been jumping around off subject and am rambling on and on but im really just screwed up in the head cause of this. I just wanna move on with my life and get me another good job and just be me, a man, and take care of my family and to be a good husband and father. Well im not even married but close tho. So i wanna be a good fionce/step father as i was b4 all this happend. I love them. Cant stop asking myself "WHY DO BAD AND HORRIBLE THINGS LIKE THIS HAVE TO HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE!? LIKE MYSELF!?!?" Sucks cause the police and the law dont care about you, one look and they allready judge you like ur a criminal even if ur a top notch stand up person, they still see nothing more than some punk thats waisting their time on the job. Im just SICK OF IT ALLREADY. K ima shut up now. Sorry.. Had to vent a bit, and thanks for listning.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Thanks again Amy. I am going to take your advice and either go to or call up my doctor and explain to him that i am entering the Adult Drug Court program here in town for something that happend back in april and need a Doctors note or letter explainning to the Judge Ill get that im under his supervision while on the suboxone as well as my other medication just to be safe. Ill have to get personal while talking to him to see if he can make the letter detailed saying like how stable i have been and that he is in fact trying to help me stop taking the subs all 2gether however it is a slowly slowly tapering method. Do you think i should include that i do visit the "Here to Help" program online?? Its the help website that has tasks and sorta counsiling and steps to take to recovery and living life while on suboxone. Its actually a very nice program and its free. Not to mention if you do well in it and complete it they may give you discounts on ur suboxone scripts ive even seen someone get an entire month worth FOR FREE! Thanks for the advice Amy and yes I will keep you posted as this all happens. If you have any other information you might find helpfull to me PLEASE do not hesitate to post them. Thanks A MILL!! :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:00 pm 
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I would definitely include anything that shows that you are getting your life back on track. You're very welcome, although I haven't given you much in the way of answers! lol I feel confident that there will be others who can give you more advice. It is definitely not fair! I would be totally pissed at the system too! Keep trying to do the right thing. Then, at least, you will not have to look back with any regrets during this time. There is hope and a light at the end of the tunnel! I'm religious and I always tell myself that there's nothing that I've done that God won't forgive. Living ethically and with compassion does count even if it doesn't seem like it right now. Chin up, brother!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:29 pm 
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crich,

Sorry you are having to deal with court. What a pain.

I was arrested a year and a half ago for dui. I was not drinking but admited to the cop I was on sub and abilify perscribed. My case got continued for 3 years so I am on probation. If I pay my fines and dont fuck up, my driving record will have negligent driving. During this time I am still allowed to take sub because it is prescribed.

So getting a letter from your doctor is a good idea. The court should not be allowed to tell your doctor how to do his job.

Also I wanted to let you know that being on suboxone will not damage your body and brain. Yes there can be side effects but there are no scientific studies saying long term opiate use will damage you beyond repair. Also, sub withdrawl can not kill you. Yes it will be uncomfortable if you quit from a high dose but it is not medically dangerous. So dont stress too bad....you will be ok.

Keep posting and let us know what happens!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:23 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
I would definitely include anything that shows that you are getting your life back on track. You're very welcome, although I haven't given you much in the way of answers! lol I feel confident that there will be others who can give you more advice. It is definitely not fair! I would be totally pissed at the system too! Keep trying to do the right thing. Then, at least, you will not have to look back with any regrets during this time. There is hope and a light at the end of the tunnel! I'm religious and I always tell myself that there's nothing that I've done that God won't forgive. Living ethically and with compassion does count even if it doesn't seem like it right now. Chin up, brother!

Amy


Amy, Once again, and always so far a pleasure. Thanks allot for the words of wisdom. ill tell ya its nice for me to be able share what happened to me and not be judged. I really cant stand people who do that. Its just never been the way I work, my parents taught me respect and i try the best i can to teach my daughter respect as well. Its nice to hear that your religous and i love talking to people like yourself always seems to help me look up and i appreciate that. As i said i will keep you posted on what happens this week. Take care!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Orange doll wrote:
crich,

Sorry you are having to deal with court. What a pain.

I was arrested a year and a half ago for dui. I was not drinking but admited to the cop I was on sub and abilify perscribed. My case got continued for 3 years so I am on probation. If I pay my fines and dont fuck up, my driving record will have negligent driving. During this time I am still allowed to take sub because it is prescribed.

So getting a letter from your doctor is a good idea. The court should not be allowed to tell your doctor how to do his job.

Also I wanted to let you know that being on suboxone will not damage your body and brain. Yes there can be side effects but there are no scientific studies saying long term opiate use will damage you beyond repair. Also, sub withdrawl can not kill you. Yes it will be uncomfortable if you quit from a high dose but it is not medically dangerous. So dont stress too bad....you will be ok.

Keep posting and let us know what happens!


Orange Doll,

Thanks very much for the info and concern and for replying to my post. I agree 100% with your comment of "The court should not be allowed to tell your doctor how to do his job." Well put. I guess what im really concerned about is some how someway the court makes me stop the subs all together. Now I would understand if i had went in to the drug court program and had been in for a while and then decided to try and go see a doctor to get on suboxone, because if you think about it if youve gone sober without nothin for a few weeks then your obviously trying to get them to get high or to abuse them. But in my current situation I had went to my sub doctor prior to even knowing what drug court was or knowing that they were going to offer me the program. They should be able to take one look at me and look at my clean backround and tell right off the bat that i dont and are not the type of guy who abuses prescription drugs. I am on the Sub film strips 8mg - I take one and a half each day and next visit he will be lowering my dose. So i dunno what to do at this point but to pray and hope that this will not be a problem, because i do in fact love my suboxone, it has done me WONDERS! and saved my life and i love my life now being pain pill free. Its great! I love my life (well beside this whole drug court thing and the fact i got arrested for the first time and went to jail for a day ) a few months ago. As you too I will keep you updated as the week goes on. Thanks for your consideration!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Please dont stop there!! I could REALLY use some more advice people!! PLEEEASE. I would REALLY like to hear from somebody who has in fact been in the same if not similar position that I am in now with the whole Me Having a valid suboxone script and now just going into the Drug Court program.


I NEED HELP AND ADVICE!! ANYONE??? ANYONE??? ANYONE ELSE??? :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:36 am 
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I dont KNOW how it works in Florida,,,,,,,,,,,,
but in Oregon, I KNOW you can do a drug court program, and have suboxone.

my good friend, has been in drug court for FIVE months now, and been on suboxone the entire time.

she did have to sign the papers (bunch of them) saying it was "okay" for her P/O to speak with her suboxone Dr.
AND,
she has to show up with her VALID perscription, every week when she goes to drug court, she also has to take all her films with her. so they can count, if they "feel like it" I guess.

I've had to give her rides, after I get off work,and I've gone in with her, so I KNOW its allowed.

Maybe there's hope???????
maybe you should have your doctor write a letter just addressed to the 'drug court' or something, you know, saying how HIGH the re;lapse rate is for "us"
or YOU could write a letter also,,,
you could talk about how much you've been able to change or have changed, and how much that'll be in jeopordy, if you cannot continue on YOUR treatment plan
also, on the www.naabt.org site, there is a packet you can order,
that has nice colored pictures, and graphs and stuff, (lol) that tells /shows HOW suboxone works,
both as replacement therapy, AND as a deterant, with the naloxone.
THAT might be a good thing to have with your LETTER(S)

Hope this helps.
and I REALLY hope Florida, is the same as Oregon, in that regard.
Keep us posted :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:42 am 
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Hey, sorry about your situation but I personally have never been in your situation but may be able to help. There have been a lot of similar topics I’ve seen on here though, if you go to the topic legal issues you can find some similar topics to yours. Here's one that may help you: http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6344

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:59 am 
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Thanks all! I also went ahead and reposted this under legal issues to see if i get any hits there too, Fireman- i did go to your link and did find the topic fairly informave. I guess now i just have to call my doctor and ask for a letter and inform him that i am starting the drug court program and need him to let them know that i am under his supervision, he is also the only doc i go to and i always go to the same pharm every time. Tho when i did my first random drug test last sat morn i brought my scripts with me and they said the vyvanse shouldnt be a problem but the suboxone may very well be, i freaked out a bit and told them i cant just stop taking it and she did agree that if they need me to stop it has to be a taper but she diddnt know 100%. She said for my first evaluation 2moro to just bring my scripts and see what my case worker will say and request as far as doctors letter and such, also ive read that id have to sign bunch of paper to allow them and my doctor to share and disclose info about me to each other. I just really hope this all works out. I know i can complete a year of drug court cause im responsible and mature enough to follow directions and such however id be lost if i had my suboxone taken away from me. Its like that commercial YA KNOW?? the one where they say "You wouldnt let your doctor do your job would you??? So why would you try to do your doctors job!?????" This is true...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:26 pm 
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crich,

A new member just posted about drug court and Suboxone. You might want to talk to that person to see what state they are in and whatever else you think will help your situation.

Here is the link:

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7539&highlight=

Good Luck,

Rule

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:32 am 
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Well all, Heres the update. So iwent in for my evaluation and it started off ok untill she asked if i had any medical problems and if on prescriptions to tell her. So i pulled out both scripts one VyVanse and one Suboxone. She said thats gonna be a problem after researching she found out i cant take my vyvanse and says that suboxone is also NOT ALLOWED durring the program. I got nervouse about stopping it cold turkey and she said well i think they will give you 2 weeks to tapper down and stop she says, it may even be 30 days but def no more than that! I told her i was nervous that the withdrawls would hit me much more intense and last allot longer than most cause ive experienced it first hand and i never seams to end. She then said we know you will withdrawl but you have to go thru it (not thinking about the relapse rate of doing this) she says we had a girl who was also on subs for a while and she did it, so you can to. She also went thru withdrawls for a week or so so they wont be that bad it will be fine. But im now thinking WTF lady NOT everyone is the same! in fact everyones different! So now im thinking to myself that im gona go back to my public defender and ask her what my other options are since we never did go over them cause i was under the impression that drug court was the only way. I wanna see if theres a option like maybe the judge could knock my charges down to a misdimeanor and just put me on probation. this way i can still take my meds that i need that allows me to live my life happy and normal. It just seems like NO ONE in the court system and these programs dont know a single thing about suboxone or anything! They all just think that you dont need ANYTHING med wise to be sucessfull PROBABLY cause NONE of them has been thru addiction like we have. How do you prove to a court and people whos never had a drug problem that suboxone treatment is good!?!?!? Just seems like i cant win... EVER!!

So this is where i stand. I wouldnt mind going thru the whole drug court program IF i had my suboxone still available for me to continue taking. Im a lil scared that the withdrawls will harm me cause i know what hapens to me. Im allready a naturally thin person with a very high metab. and when i withdrawl i dont eat, and for days at that, (NOT GOOD) i dont exersize dont eat, cant sleep which effects my day time in a BIG WAY. exessive yawning it goes on and on and instead of getting a lil better as the days go on it gets worse! and i already have depression, stress, insomnia, and add issues. i fear stopping my subs will make those issues much worse. Im just really lost you guys.... Im lost.....


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:19 pm 
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I am so very sorry to hear of the view this drug court is taking with you, and it would seem everyone else in that system as well. While I personally do think there has been very, very slow improvement with regard to "officials" understanding the role and success that Suboxone plays in drug addiction, we clearly all still have a very, very long way to go. Part of the problem is there seems to be no consistant view from city to city, state to state, program to program or even from one person to another within the same program. What really stinks is as a nation, our elected officials have given approval to Suboxone as a treatment. It is the law. It is legal. Yet, individual officials somehow get to over-ride that and say "no, you can't do that." How is this even possible? What other medical treatment works this way? Name one other illness where a licensed MD prescribes treatment or medication - that the patient pays for - and they get to over-rule that treatment? Does this happen with blood pressure treatment? Does this happen with depression treatment? Does this happen with birth conrol? That answer of course to any of these is no. Yet, someone when it comes to addiction and to Sub, others get to decide and over-rule the United States legislature. Crazy.

As to your case, I would very strongly suggest you speak with your attorney. Someone here needs to advocate for not only you but everyone else in that system. Will your doctor write a letter or appear in court with you? You somehow need to put together the very best case that you can and fight this. You are only asking to be allowed to do what federal law already allows anyone else to do. In a quick search I did actually find an article, written by an actual drug court judge - who ADVOCATES for Suboxone. You can find it here:

http://www.centerforhealthandjustice.or ... _judge.pdf

Obviously this is only one judge, two years ago in Ohio. Still, showing this to your case worker and getting it to the judge coule help. It's peer to peer. It's sometimes hard for a judge to ignore what other judges are doing or what a licensed MD is saying. Of course, some of these guys think they are only one step away from God and don't want to hear anything. I still see this as the very best chance that you have. You will have to do the leg work. Find anything and everything you can find to support your case. Get your doctor to support and help. Provide all of this to your attorney so he/she can present it to the court. You may end up making a difference, not only for yourself but for everyone else in that drug court. The goal is to keep you off of drugs - correct? So what in the hell sense does it make to increase the chance you will use - and that is what they are doing. They are saying, we don't want you to use drugs. So, in order for us to make sure you do not use drugs we are going to stop the treatment that is working for you and stop a treatment that has been proven to work for others and actually proven to increase the risk of replapse when stopped. Put it to them in that manner and make them answer. Make them answer how it makes sense if the goal is to keep you off of drugs, why then stop the actual treatment that is doing that. I'd love to hear what the reason/answer is.

Best of luck to you. Don't give up. You need to be your own best advocate here.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:25 pm 
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I agree with donh. What a well written post donh!

I would definitely talk to your lawyer about this. You are not doing anything illegal by taking your prescribed medications.

I would do as donh suggested and talk to your doctor about this. Maybe he can print out some articles for you to take to your lawyer. He can write a letter to the court explaining why IN HIS PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL OPINION you NEED this treatment for your DISEASE of addiction. I would do everything I could to fight this bullshit.

Sorry this is happening to you. With some help, you might have a chance to change things.

Be strong and keep us updated.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:29 pm 
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For what it's worth, here's an article written by a drug court judge stating that Suboxone boosts drug court success:


http://www.centerforhealthandjustice.or ... _judge.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:35 pm 
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well okay all who are still following my blog here. So i had to make my final decision. Do the drug court under their terms or try and take a different plea aggreement or offer like the one i was gonna try and get which soon after i talked to an attourney friend he directed me away from this choice. I was gonna try and get my public defender to try and convince the judge to reduce the felony charge of poss of TWO freakin suboxones to a misdimeanor and just suffer with a midimeanor on my record and get like a year of REG probation. But apparently the only other offers the judge would offer me would be either TIME in JAIL, or Felony probation, which neither are any good. however! ya ready for this?? the only reason why i aggreed to do the drug court even after they told me i CANNOT take my suboxone durring it, first they said they could only give me 2 weeks to tapper off, (not long enough for me) then i dug a lil deeper and they now said that they could give me 30 days to tapper off then start the program. Thats a little better, Now the drug court lady also said to get a letter from my doc or go talk to him and see what he says about this, and if he says no the shortest fastest timeline he can have me do it safely is like 45 days, to get a letter stating that and they will see what they can do to let that happen for me. :) on top of that she said to help me even more she could get my case pushed ahead by 2 weeks so that will then give me an additional 2 weeks on top of the 30-45 days! This is good news! So im just gonna have to suck it up and DO IT!! and get it over with. Allthough its gonna hurt me very much financially but in the end ill be completely clean and wont have anything of this matter on my record once i graduate the program. So, Anybody have any thoughts or words or advice for me now at this point?? Feel free im all ears! well eyes! lol Thanks again to you all for all your help and input for me going thru this difficult time in my life! Yall are THE BEST!! So THANKS!! And God Bless each and every one of you! Take Care!!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Well crich, I am glad you got some answers and have a little time to prepare for this.

Im still pissed about your situation though. A court or judge should not be able to interfere with your doctors orders.

Suboxone is a TREATMENT for drug addiction. I would think that drug court would WANT you to get treatment for your drug addiction. It just goes to show how fucking misimformed people are about suboxone snd addiction in general. I mean these people are FORCING you off a life saving treatment. WTF.

May I ask why did you not try to fight this? Did your lawyer say it just wouldn't matter what your doctor said? I totally understand that you want a clean record which is very important for your future....but couldnt your doctor have contacted this court and helped you out?

Anyway, I do wish you the best and am sorry this happened to.you. Looks like The War on Drugs is yet again fucking over the poor everyday addict.

_________________
I have been on suboxone 2.5 years and take 4mg once daily. I love my sub and plan to be on it for two more years.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:48 pm
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Location: oregon coast
WELL,
it certainly wasnt the 'ending' I for ONE, was Hoping for!!!!
But I guess maybe getting 45 days to taper is WAY BETTER than, 'you have to stop in two weeks'

My hope is that ONE DAY,,, suboxone is seen like any other medication..........
I know it will always have a certain stigma......
but I do have HOPE that one day its not this 'black-listed' med, that your NOT given while in the court system.

becuz truthfully, alot of addicts DO end up in the court system, one way or another.... there should be NOTHING wrong with taking suboxone AS PERSCRIBED............... well, that goes for ANY other med, I guess.
Ok, I'll get off my soapbox.....................

I DO hope everything goes well for you, and ends up okay, in the end.
Please stay strong, and keep your head up thru this whole thing,,,,,,,,, remember your "end" in site.
From what my friend says, there are ALOT of people in the drug court thing HERE, that use all the time and go back to jail...... apparently, they just dont care!!!
So, just stay strong, if the urge is there/around you know what Im sayng.

Good luck to you with everything, and please DO keep us updated, so we can SUPPORT you thru this :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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