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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:37 pm 
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I have been on subutex for about 8 mo.s now and doing well..no slip ups and feel good. My problem is I am still taking 2mg. klonopin and 100mg. serequel at bedtime for sleep. I just cannot sleep ....even with this med. I still wake up all during the night and finally about 4:00 just give up and get up. My doctor does not want any of his patients taking benzodiazapines with suboxone. We even had to sign a sheet saying we would not take it while on suboxone. I feel guilty because I am still taking it. My husband deals it out to me each night (keeps it locked up in a safe ). The fact is, I could not control my use of klonopin if I was in charge of taking it. They would all be gone in a week. So..I know I am addicted to benzos as well. I don't take it the night before my Dr.'s visit in case they do a drug screen. They have only done one drug screen since I started and it was neg. I know this is addictive behavior....but I feel if I didn't have my med. at night I would not sleep at all. I just wondered if there is anyone else out there taking benzos with your sub? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!


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 Post subject: benzo's
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:00 pm 
I don't take any benzodiazepines anymore. I took 6mg Klonopin and 60mg Valium daily for many years. I should say that's what I was supposed to take because I wayyy exceeded that most of the time. I can say that in the last two years since I've been off them my sleep has normalized but it was a miserable month-two months after I was completely titrated off of them of getting very little sleep. I had also at times tried to have girlfriends/parents/friends lock up my prescriptions in safes and dole them out to me but in a few months I would always eventually find a way to abuse them. As you say, you're not getting great sleep even with them; I can relate to that totally. My mother who isn't an addict recently had a major surgery and was taking just 5mg of Valium nightly for about 3 weeks as a muscle relaxant/sleep aid, and her sleep was very disturbed for a couple weeks after she stopped taking it.

I had to personally come to a point that I realized that if I cannot control a certain medication, I simply shouldn't take it. I could obviously get benzo's today if I wanted and I could assure my Dr. I would only take it PRN in a small dose, but I know that if I had more than 1-2 pills per day I would get totally out of control and dependent again. Even one pill daily causes dependence very quickly. When I stopped I did have to VERY slowly be titrated in a medical facility and even then I had a seizure in the process. Not fun stuff. This is the tape I play in my head when I want 'just .5mg-1mg Xanax' when I'm stressed-out.

-Travis


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 Post subject: My sleeping pill
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Slipper,
I was having lots of problems falling asleep i would stay up very late then want to sleep all day!!!! My pain managment Dr. prescribed my elavil 20 mg I take it 3 hours before I want to sleep and it knocks me out. the good thing about it is I woke up ready, feel well rested.
I can relate to the benzo's I would be addicted to them also if I had a script. I also had to sign a contract at the doctors office saying I would not take any benzo's. If he finds it in my system he will discharge me.
I just wanted to let you know about the sleeping aid that I'm prescribed. It works well and it may help you sleep better and then you will not have to worry about testing positive for klonopin.
Wishing you well
Mel :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: benzo's TO TRAVIS
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:52 pm 
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travispnorton wrote:
I don't take any benzodiazepines anymore. I took 6mg Klonopin and 60mg Valium daily for many years. I should say that's what I was supposed to take because I wayyy exceeded that most of the time. I can say that in the last two years since I've been off them my sleep has normalized but it was a miserable month-two months after I was completely titrated off of them of getting very little sleep. I had also at times tried to have girlfriends/parents/friends lock up my prescriptions in safes and dole them out to me but in a few months I would always eventually find a way to abuse them. As you say, you're not getting great sleep even with them; I can relate to that totally. My mother who isn't an addict recently had a major surgery and was taking just 5mg of Valium nightly for about 3 weeks as a muscle relaxant/sleep aid, and her sleep was very disturbed for a couple weeks after she stopped taking it.

I had to personally come to a point that I realized that if I cannot control a certain medication, I simply shouldn't take it. I could obviously get benzo's today if I wanted and I could assure my Dr. I would only take it PRN in a small dose, but I know that if I had more than 1-2 pills per day I would get totally out of control and dependent again. Even one pill daily causes dependence very quickly. When I stopped I did have to VERY slowly be titrated in a medical facility and even then I had a seizure in the process. Not fun stuff. This is the tape I play in my head when I want 'just .5mg-1mg Xanax' when I'm stressed-out.


Sixty mg. valium..wow that was a lot...it is a wonder you are still here! I really want to thank you for your reply....sounds like you have been there done that and can relate to my situation. You are so right when you say you really don't get any good sleep even taking them. I still can remember the good sleep i used to get on nothing. I wish I could get that back.

I know my husband could taper me off the med. and that is what I should do. I know this and still i put it off? You are right though...if I cannot control a certain med. then I simply shouldn't take it. I am going to try to get off this stuff. I just feel like I am never going to be able to sleep again. I go to bed around 10:30-11:30 and go right to sleep. I wake up at 12:30 on the dot..every night..I go to the bathroom and go back to bed. I wake up at 2:30, 3:30, and 4:00. It is the same time every single night. I could set a clock by it. I just get up at 4:00 and read or get on the computer.. and I usually feel like shit the next day because I have been up all night!

-Travis


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:01 pm 
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meltalk wrote:
Slipper,
I was having lots of problems falling asleep i would stay up very late then want to sleep all day!!!! My pain managment Dr. prescribed my elavil 20 mg I take it 3 hours before I want to sleep and it knocks me out. the good thing about it is I woke up ready, feel well rested.
I can relate to the benzo's I would be addicted to them also if I had a script. I also had to sign a contract at the doctors office saying I would not take any benzo's. If he finds it in my system he will discharge me.
I just wanted to let you know about the sleeping aid that I'm prescribed. It works well and it may help you sleep better and then you will not have to worry about testing positive for klonopin.
Wishing you well
Mel :wink:


TO MELTALK:

Thank you for the information about your sleeping aid Elavil. I took it years ago for depression and I do remember it helped me sleep and was not addictive. I had forgotten about it. I may ask my family doctor for a script for some. It seems I took a much higher dose, but then I always take much higher doses!! Thanks again for your helpful information.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:07 pm 
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You know the right thing to do is to stop taking your husband's scripts. If you are having trouble sleeping you should tell your doctor. If you require meds to sleep they should be prescribed to you. Part of recovery is to stop self medicating so I really hope you decide to talk to your Dr about your sleeping problems. I am not judging you and understand recovery is a process but you will never be able to fully heal from your opiate addiction unless you address all addictions.


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 Post subject: Whose RX is it?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:44 pm 
Not that it really matters either way, but I got the impression that the prescription was yours but your husband locked it in a safe for you and gave you one pill at a time? If this is the case, in addition to your dependency on benzodiazepines, your husband is in a pretty codependent position as well. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but I am saying that addiction truely is/becomes a family disease!

-Travis


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 Post subject: TO BREEZY ANN
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Breezy_Ann wrote:
You know the right thing to do is to stop taking your husband's scripts. If you are having trouble sleeping you should tell your doctor. If you require meds to sleep they should be prescribed to you. Part of recovery is to stop self medicating so I really hope you decide to talk to your Dr about your sleeping problems. I am not judging you and understand recovery is a process but you will never be able to fully heal from your opiate addiction unless you address all addictions.


TO BREEZY ANN: It is my prescription, my husband just gives it to me. I am not taking his scripts....but you are right about all the other stuff you said, and i know it. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:44 pm 
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travispnorton wrote:
Not that it really matters either way, but I got the impression that the prescription was yours but your husband locked it in a safe for you and gave you one pill at a time? If this is the case, in addition to your dependency on benzodiazepines, your husband is in a pretty codependent position as well. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but I am saying that addiction truely is/becomes a family disease!

-Travis


TO TRAVIS: You were right it is my script and my husband gives me one pill at a time. I think it is wrong and it is a family disease like you said. I am going to taper off this med. and do without the benzos. Like others have said I cannot really work on my disease until I am free of this as well. Thank you for your information.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:53 pm 
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I think I read the post wrong and after reading it again I see they are your meds, sorry! Ignore my above post.

So then you are getting the klonopin and seroquel from another Dr but your sub Dr does not know you are on them? If so it still isn't good, if your sub Dr finds out you have secret prescriptions he could drop you without warning. All it would take is one failed ua or a pharmacist that sees you are getting benzos from a seperate dr and decides to check with your sub Dr.

Does your Dr that prescribes your klonopin and seroquel know that you are on sub? If not then the same thing could happen there.

Or worst case scenario is that one finds out, tells the other and you lose them all. I am not trying to scare you, I am just pointing out some scenarios that could happen. I am sorry your stuck in this spot and of course the right thing to do is come clean to your sub Dr but I understand your hesitation. Honestly I am not sure what I would do in your shoes.

Again I apologize for misreading your 1st post and I hope you get this figured out. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:51 pm 
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I guess we were posting at the same time. I think you are making a good decision to get off the benzos. If you are having trouble with insomnia maybe you could tell your sub Dr. He might have some safer alternatives you could try. I hope you are able to get in a normal sleep pattern. Keep us posted as to how you are doing.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Slipper-

I think this comes through in some of the other posts, but most likely the benzos are not helping you sleep at all, and potentially making it worse. The research on sleep is pretty strong, and we know that benzos definitely impact how much time is spent in deep sleep, causing cycles of deprivation and rebound. This likely has an impact on memory and processing speed. Considering your tolerance probably makes it hard to feel a benefit, you are basically paying a cost for very little return. I guess that basically defines addiction! Anyway, a very very slow benzo taper is totally manageable, and most likely your sleep will improve greatly once you are off. You may suggest to your doc a benzo with a longer half-life during the taper, because it will alleviate between dose fluctuations. Good luck!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:26 am 
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slipper wrote:
I don't take it the night before my Dr.'s visit in case they do a drug screen.


uh, i don't know if anyone touched on this but....benzos such as klonopin stay in your system forever!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stopping Klonopin the night before won't do a thing. Klonopins half-life is like a day? LOL....unless yer taking versed which i seriously doubt.....u better do something other than yer plan- not taking it the night before to pass UA? how much do u know about benzos anyway?......i usually know everything about drugs i love!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:49 am 
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I always respond twice for some reason..LOL..it's my signature. I have been on benzos straight for 14 yrs now (xanax and klonopin or both). I'll addmit, being an addict i feel regret. on the flip side i am diagnoised bi-polar one and have had many seizures(non benzo induced) . I feel guilty to a degree but then I think and still have nightmares of my many dead friends i've lost. I remember clear as day- my dear friend grasping for his last couple breaths, ambulance sirens in the distance- me holding his hand as he turns a darker shade of death with a seemingly useless 911 telling me , another minute. i'm sure we all have war and tragic stories but i haven't been able to conquer benos- and i don't plan to stop....im tolerent to about 6mg/xanax , 4mg klonopin/ for years.....if only flunitrazepam was legal or versed shots- nasty demon inside telling me that! someday i'll work on it a little harder- things are going too well right now with career and benzo wds cold-turkey is far more threatening than opioid...one time i was in a jail cell and they wouldn't give me my prescribed xanax and i was bailed-but oh so close to grand mal teritory- FUCKING JAILS INSTEAD of REHABS for addicts...don't even get me started


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:05 am 
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Slipper -

You are certainly not the only one who still has sleep problems while on suboxone. It's not really a med that's meant to help people sleep. It's definitely something you should discuss with your doctor (you don't have to mention the klonopins at all).

I've been taking Trazodone for quite a while for my sleep and it works great for me. It does have a bit of a hangover for the first few days at most, but that subsides and I have no trouble waking.

Everyone else has given you great advice on tapering off the benzos you're on, so I don't think I can add anything to that.

I will say that I, too, had a HUGE addiction to benzos - Xanax specifically - before I started suboxone. I never imagined I'd be able to function without them (6+ mg a DAY of xanax - no exaggeration). So what you need to do - get off the klonopin - is DOABLE! You CAN do this. And you have your husband to help you.

Good luck and remember, we're here for you. You're not in this alone.

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 Post subject: TO DURHAM DOC:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:34 pm 
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DurhamDoc wrote:
Slipper-

I think this comes through in some of the other posts, but most likely the benzos are not helping you sleep at all, and potentially making it worse. The research on sleep is pretty strong, and we know that benzos definitely impact how much time is spent in deep sleep, causing cycles of deprivation and rebound. This likely has an impact on memory and processing speed. Considering your tolerance probably makes it hard to feel a benefit, you are basically paying a cost for very little return. I guess that basically defines addiction! Anyway, a very very slow benzo taper is totally manageable, and most likely your sleep will improve greatly once you are off. You may suggest to your doc a benzo with a longer half-life during the taper, because it will alleviate between dose fluctuations. Good luck!


TO DURHAM DOC: I get what you are saying and thanks...I am going to taper off this stuff...Judy


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:51 pm 
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indigochild wrote:
slipper wrote:
I don't take it the night before my Dr.'s visit in case they do a drug screen.


uh, i don't know if anyone touched on this but....benzos such as klonopin stay in your system forever!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stopping Klonopin the night before won't do a thing. Klonopins half-life is like a day? LOL....unless yer taking versed which i seriously doubt.....u better do something other than yer plan- not taking it the night before to pass UA? how much do u know about benzos anyway?......i usually know everything about drugs i love!


TO INDIGOCHILD:
Thanks for the heads up...i know klonopin has a long half life..I usually stop about two days before actually and dring that time I drink the hell out of the water...prob. up to a gallon or more...so far this has worked..I agree with you about benzo withdrawal being worse than opiate withdrawal..I quit valium one time cold turkey (had taken 40 mg. at night for sleep for about a year) and oh man..I saw acorns raining from the sky..it was so real had to cover my eyes!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:39 pm 
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I take xanax 1-1.5 mg. at night to sleep, for about 2 years now. I guess I had better consider getting off these things too. I have experienced insomnia since a child. No excuse, I know. I just wanted to let you know that there are others in your same boat. Anyone got a good safe way to taper off benzos?


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 Post subject: Benzo taper
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:17 pm 
sweet16 wrote:
I take xanax 1-1.5 mg. at night to sleep, for about 2 years now. I guess I had better consider getting off these things too. I have experienced insomnia since a child. No excuse, I know. I just wanted to let you know that there are others in your same boat. Anyone got a good safe way to taper off benzos?


The best way to taper off of benzodiazepines is by working with a medical doctor. Typically xanax and other shorter-acting benzodiazepines will be switched for longer acting benzodiazepines such as klonopin or valium, typically klonopin and the dose will be titrated over time. Sometimes benzodiazepines are substituted for phenobarbital and that is titrated. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is one of three withdrawals that can be deadly (the other two are alcohol and barbiturate) and cause seizures if not done correctly. I'd recommend, like I said, working with your doctor for the best results! Good luck!

-Travis


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 Post subject: Re: Benzo taper
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:56 am 
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travispnorton wrote:
sweet16 wrote:
I take xanax 1-1.5 mg. at night to sleep, for about 2 years now. I guess I had better consider getting off these things too. I have experienced insomnia since a child. No excuse, I know. I just wanted to let you know that there are others in your same boat. Anyone got a good safe way to taper off benzos?


The best way to taper off of benzodiazepines is by working with a medical doctor. Typically xanax and other shorter-acting benzodiazepines will be switched for longer acting benzodiazepines such as klonopin or valium, typically klonopin and the dose will be titrated over time. Sometimes benzodiazepines are substituted for phenobarbital and that is titrated. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is one of three withdrawals that can be deadly (the other two are alcohol and barbiturate) and cause seizures if not done correctly. I'd recommend, like I said, working with your doctor for the best results! Good luck!

-Travis


Amen to that. At some stage slipper you're going to have to talk to your doctor about this layer of addiction. As you're abusing Klonopin, I can imagine it may be difficult to taper off it even though it's longer lasting. Most people I know who abused Xanax / Rivotril were switched to Valium and slowly tapered over months.

Benzo withdrawal can be really nasty, and if you're going to do this, do it under a doctor's supervision. Actually, do it under your doctor's supervision.

Are you being prescribed Seroquel? I've found it doesn't have much abuse appeal, but some people do seek them out, especially in jail. I wouldn't worry too much about that, and deal with the benzos first. I've reduced off Seroquel numerous times and found it really easy. This Interferon treatment had me without sleep for a long time, and I've been prescribed 25mg Seroquel at night. I've managed to get at least a few hours sleep since, though it certainly gives me weird dreams. I know there will be no issues in coming off after treatment finishes.

Other than that, try and have your Suboxone early in the morning. I've found dosing later can make me stay up later.

Travis got out of this, so there's no reason you can't. If you want some motivation, talk to hatmaker about where benzo addiction can end up.


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