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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:05 am 
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Amen. You can take anything on here out of context to make your points. I'm learning that now. Like teejay said...this place is for all kinds of recovery and just because it doesn't match yours... doesn't mean it's wrong. Only common bond is we are using Suboxone as a tool to get our lives to be free of opiates... nothing more. So. I know it's hard to accept as an addict.... trust me... I'm just getting there lol.... but everyone is different and recovery is super individual. On here... nobody is right or wrong really....when it pertains to their own recovery.... if it works for them. Idk. Good one teejay. I liked it. Mountains out of mole hills.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:15 am 
Rule- Sorry for freking out. After 6 days off of sub cold turkey 12mg's. My thoughts were scattered and i was getting a little manic at the drop of a pin. I am calm and back to trying to be as rational as possible. (While still rationalizing with myself as to why i so strongly want this sub adventure to end)

Moviemaker- You said in another thread about how i only used opiates for a few months and i probably did not belong on subs and should hate them. Instead of me getting into a long winded rebuttual as to how it doesn't matter how we got here. The fact is. We are all here at this crossroads on sub right now. My past use makes no difference now that i have a suboxone dependence. We are in this whirlpool together now. Focus on today and tommorow now...

I have to you moviemaker

Amen. You can take anything on here out of context to make your points. I'm learning that now. Like teejay said...this place is for all kinds of recovery and just because it doesn't match yours... doesn't mean it's wrong. Only common bond is we are using Suboxone as a tool to get our lives to be free of opiates... nothing more. So. I know it's hard to accept as an addict.... trust me... I'm just getting there lol.... but everyone is different and recovery is super individual. On here... nobody is right or wrong really....when it pertains to their own recovery.... if it works for them. Idk. Good one teejay. I liked it. Mountains out of mole hills.

This is the FIRST thing i've seen you say that i agree with! No more arguing with ya. The point teejay i think said about someone who just uses there script of oxy everyday as directed is only staying well and as long as they don't abuse it. It's the same thing we are doing! I was actually about to post something very similar to this tune. Sigh of relief as i was ready to leave this place, there are some cool people here. Who i share some common ideas with.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:17 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
Secondly ... you've taken my words completely out of context and spun them into some kind of insult to Dirty South.


i was offended by yer comment also. it sounded like you were writing me off and my points not valid because i "only" have X number of days instead of 2 years.

TeeJay wrote:
freshly off Sub who all of the sudden take to attacking Suboxone and everything it stands for. Maybe it's a necessary phase in getting off Sub?


imho, it does seem like a necessary phase in getting off sub so it is what it is.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:19 am 
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MovieMaker1 wrote:
Only common bond is we are using Suboxone as a tool to get our lives to be free of opiates...


i'm sorry to be the one to point this out to you, but you are NOT yet free of opiates if you are on suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:48 am 
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**dirtysouth** wrote:
TeeJay wrote:
Secondly ... you've taken my words completely out of context and spun them into some kind of insult to Dirty South.


i was offended by yer comment also. it sounded like you were writing me off and my points not valid because i "only" have X number of days instead of 2 years.

TeeJay wrote:
freshly off Sub who all of the sudden take to attacking Suboxone and everything it stands for. Maybe it's a necessary phase in getting off Sub?


imho, it does seem like a necessary phase in getting off sub so it is what it is.


You can get people's support and encouragement from this forum anytime, but not from me when your opening few posts are full of side-swipes and digs at people who've chosen to stay on Suboxone. I'm not going to be a "COMPLIANT PERSON"? "but to see some of the rhetoric of the pro-subbers just makes me shake my head." ? WTF? Who are you shaking your head at? People on this forum? Dr. J? Call a spade a spade here.

Quote:
"i'm not sure i know exactly what yer referring to here, but...ABSOLUTELY new ppl should see posts like mine!! ppl should be able to locate and find tales from both sides of the coin so they can make an informed decision"


So you're saying that everybody here (apart from a "few gems") are "pro-Subbers" who push "pro-Sub rhetoric" and new people need to see your opinion to get some balance?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:03 am 
I think it's fair to have people see good and bad experiences of suboxone. We are the guinea pigs on the hamster wheel in the lab right now future generations regarding this drug. I'm frightened to found out the ACTUAL long term effects of it. Maybe then people can stop writing off side effects to other stuff and narrow it down to the culprit. At least for me this is the case. I hope you guys don't get the start of things i've been experiencing. But to keep writing it off as suboxone being the very last thing that could be the problem. Don't kid yourself, it's your health your toying with.


Just like when you hit rock bottom you have to hate the drug with some conviction! But i guess while we are still using it has not yet reach that point for some. It has for me. I am over sub. To me, the bigger picture is living in today. And I don't see to many more of my "todays" filled with suboxone. At some point we need to actually lay off the cushion of sub and owe it to ourselves to reach that final rock bottom feeling called living without the opiods. Easier said then done, i know. : /

Our past really don't mean much when someone say's i've been banging 5000 mg of oxy and snorting opanas with it for the last 40 years.

Then you got me who used oxy for a couple months and was refering to this magical suboxone program.

So without down playing anyones past (including my own) It doesn't matter! If your on sub as am i. Were in the same ship. Your massive tolerance and my lower to moderate tolerance don't mean anything now. Were now equal in problems as far as how hooked we are on bupe.

I just don't want to let this snowball turn into a avalanche were im on a stupid pill that messes my tolerance up, occupies my receptors with this partial stimulation which in my opinion CANNOT be healthy to do to those receptors with the duration this drug lasts. Something tells me down the road long term effects may be bad. My liver is taking a punch everytime i take this stuff, I'm thinking my t levels are diminishing. Will be get tested for that. All in all this thing is like the article i was reading said. Wonderful detox tool, monster maintenance med.

This drug is run by obvious money hungry big pharma who clearly wants to keep a patent to keep price gouging the addicts. Doctors take a 8 hour course to prescribe this stuff. I mean really? Under better circumstances i could maybe understand. But seriously? I think at this point in my life my rationalizing is actually aimed in the right direction. The cons in my situation are certainly out weighing the pros. If i had to do this all over again. I would have picked to go on methadone. At least the effects on people are well documented. This stuff is like buying the vacuum from the door to door salesmen. Your happy when you first bought it and it did it's job exactly as promised. But all the sudden every month your getting billed more and more and getting sent additional vacuums.

It has helped at the very start to get off of the crap i was taking. But, at this point i believe im worse off. Pretty sure where im at now while on this drug. My old oxy tolerance probably would barely affect me. I think i've dug myself further into a hole.

Cheers to whoever reads this. This is just MY personal belief regarding subtoxicone. Individual experiences may vary. : 0
(I don't want to be on the merry go round anymore.)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:42 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
You can get people's support and encouragement from this forum anytime, but not from me when your opening few posts are full of side-swipes and digs at people who've chosen to stay on Suboxone.


yer missing the point, but it's ok, i'm good widdit.

TeeJay wrote:
I'm not going to be a "COMPLIANT PERSON"? "but to see some of the rhetoric of the pro-subbers just makes me shake my head." ? WTF? Who are you shaking your head at? People on this forum? Dr. J? Call a spade a spade here.


no, i dirtysouth, am no longer going to be a compliant patient. honestly, tj, this post was written several days ago and a lot has changed for me since then. i was shaking my head at a lot of things, so truth be told, i'm not sure exactly to whom those feelings were directed. i was pissed off and i posted about it. understand?

Quote:
"i'm not sure i know exactly what yer referring to here, but...ABSOLUTELY new ppl should see posts like mine!! ppl should be able to locate and find tales from both sides of the coin so they can make an informed decision"


TeeJay wrote:
So you're saying that everybody here (apart from a "few gems") are "pro-Subbers" who push "pro-Sub rhetoric" and new people need to see your opinion to get some balance?


those were my feelings in that moment, yes.

it feels like a communication breakdown, except that some ppl get it and some don't and again, i'm good widdit.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:53 am 
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will430 wrote:
I think it's fair to have people see good and bad experiences of suboxone. We are the guinea pigs on the hamster wheel in the lab right now future generations regarding this drug. I'm frightened to found out the ACTUAL long term effects of it. Maybe then people can stop writing off side effects to other stuff and narrow it down to the culprit. At least for me this is the case. I hope you guys don't get the start of things i've been experiencing. But to keep writing it off as suboxone being the very last thing that could be the problem. Don't kid yourself, it's your health your toying with.


Just like when you hit rock bottom you have to hate the drug with some conviction! But i guess while we are still using it has not yet reach that point for some. It has for me. I am over sub. To me, the bigger picture is living in today. And I don't see to many more of my "todays" filled with suboxone. At some point we need to actually lay off the cushion of sub and owe it to ourselves to reach that final rock bottom feeling called living without the opiods. Easier said then done, i know. : /

Our past really don't mean much when someone say's i've been banging 5000 mg of oxy and snorting opanas with it for the last 40 years.

Then you got me who used oxy for a couple months and was refering to this magical suboxone program.

So without down playing anyones past (including my own) It doesn't matter! If your on sub as am i. Were in the same ship. Your massive tolerance and my lower to moderate tolerance don't mean anything now. Were now equal in problems as far as how hooked we are on bupe.

I just don't want to let this snowball turn into a avalanche were im on a stupid pill that messes my tolerance up, occupies my receptors with this partial stimulation which in my opinion CANNOT be healthy to do to those receptors with the duration this drug lasts. Something tells me down the road long term effects may be bad. My liver is taking a punch everytime i take this stuff, I'm thinking my t levels are diminishing. Will be get tested for that. All in all this thing is like the article i was reading said. Wonderful detox tool, monster maintenance med.

This drug is run by obvious money hungry big pharma who clearly wants to keep a patent to keep price gouging the addicts. Doctors take a 8 hour course to prescribe this stuff. I mean really? Under better circumstances i could maybe understand. But seriously? I think at this point in my life my rationalizing is actually aimed in the right direction. The cons in my situation are certainly out weighing the pros. If i had to do this all over again. I would have picked to go on methadone. At least the effects on people are well documented. This stuff is like buying the vacuum from the door to door salesmen. Your happy when you first bought it and it did it's job exactly as promised. But all the sudden every month your getting billed more and more and getting sent additional vacuums.

It has helped at the very start to get off of the crap i was taking. But, at this point i believe im worse off. Pretty sure where im at now while on this drug. My old oxy tolerance probably would barely affect me. I think i've dug myself further into a hole.

Cheers to whoever reads this. This is just MY personal belief regarding subtoxicone. Individual experiences may vary. : 0
(I don't want to be on the merry go round anymore.)


no, cheers to you will for this post. almost line by line, i'm thinking in my head "exactly!" and now why wasn't i able to say it this way?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:55 pm 
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what the hell, banging my head against the wall and it's getting old.

teejay-
you just don't get it...you can have the last word, because this is mine on this subject.
1)- you've held me accountable for someone else's opinion(dirty) most of your argument.
2)apparently you feel it's open game to hit below the belt and nothing is off limits to you,regardless of other's well-being, i see that as a weakness, maybe an intelligent response is just beyond you? so a punch to the face when your lost for words is your instinct, were you a school yard bully as a youngster?
3) just because you haven't seen me post doesn't mean i am new to this site or forum, i checked, i've been a member twice as long as you have, i just spent my time reading and not running at the mouth haphazardly.
4)to comment about dislike of subs while jump off? this taught me that you have never been where me and dirty and many more have been, when oddly, you claimed to have been at the wd stage of subs many times in the past? that being said, how can i expect you to understand? won't ever happen till you walk in these shoes bro, period.
5) because you wouldn't know, yes, i think it would be impossible to detox from anything while holding it in high regard throughout the duration, personally, i waged war on the subs to get to where i am at now...this i know is temporary displacement of my feelings for the drug. like i said in my last post, you've attacked me as if i am anti-subs when you actually don't have the slightest of my true feelings!- again, exactly why this debate is going NOWHERE.
6) i'm not surprised at your feelings towards recovery programs, i've been there too, a very long time ago, much younger then and had a lot to learn, i don't feel the need to defend the 12 step's or spirituality to you. (it is sad though, when i step up to call you out for a completely inappropriate comment, rather than seeing it as someone who's got a moral code and decency, instead you've went after my mental state and even the ideology of the aa/na programs-is anything sacred to you?
7) seriously- i think suboxone is great for many people, it does what it's supposed to do, comes with it's toll that rears it's ugly head one day also, and smart person knows that, but never really knows until they've experienced it. given all the research i have done, too many times i have learned of someones world can get pulled out from under them so fast they'll never see it coming...if it is your intention to stay on subs for life? what will you do when your doc decides otherwise, and the next doc, and so on? it happens. too often. if your head was in the end game, or even just a peak ahead, you would know that too. this entire stupid argument can be boiled down to the fact my side wants off subs, your side wants on subs. i don't think you remember the title of the thread you logged onto, wasn't it hate subs? i entered because the level i'm at now, looking for like-minded folks...i think you have made it clear why you came to this topic, given your position.
8) a piece of advise, someday whether you want it or not, you will be at the next step of subs, the choice ultimately is not in your control, you are naive if you think it is. i don't think this drug will be cemented as a life-long alternative, instead only a means to an end, open-minds can see the progression heading in that direction now, i guess nobody knows what the future holds, but smart money goes with what i said. advise-consider an end game.
9) remember i am on a thread that was meant to attract people stopping suboxone! or curious about stopping subs, we can all see that you are not interested in either! why were you here again? oh yeah, looking for a fight and dammit you got me, i won't be this stupid again.


for everyone else-
10) i am truly sorry for my behavior if i offended anyone while caught up in this meaningless trash. i lost sight of the "bigger picture" and tried to lend insight to someone who has no desire to think outside of the "box" no pun intended.
i hope y'all can accept my apology

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a man who can keep a secret may be wise..... but not half as wise as the man with no secret to keep.-edgar watson howe


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:43 pm 
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I love this forum but I also wish people were more open to negative experiences with suboxone.

I hate that if any member says a bad thing about suboxone, no matter how much time they have on it no matter what they do or say you are wrong in every members eyes. I wish people would wake up and realize that suboxone isn't this miracle drug you all make it out to be. Sure it saved your life but it ruined mine but how come you guys can't accept that? Everyone of thes threads turns into world warIII the minute we question your guys posts? I just wish you guys can see both sides of the spectrum!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:01 pm 
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It's evolving lol.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Bboy, I think there are open minded people here that can see both sides.

I know sub isnt perfect and some people have bad experiences with it.

I know sub sucked for you and I was so happy you found methadone. But you dont come on here and imply that those of us doing well on sub are high and will wale up one day and realize how bad sub is. You dont imply that we are lifers and are spreading pro sub propaganda.

I consider myself sober and in recovery. Im proud I am on sub and proud of how far I have come. I dont want to come to a recovery forum where we are suppose to respect the decisions of others and get insulted.

It works better here when people stic to sharing their own experience. Use the word "I" when posting, not the word "you." Dont assume that everyone has had or will have the same beliefs or experiences. Be respectful of the decisions of others.

You bboy do a pretty good job of that. Others, not so much.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Too much time wasted arguing over nothing. This could go on forever. Good luck in your recovery blue_falcon_show & dirty_south.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:08 pm 
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If there was a forum out there comprised mainly of people who talk about their bad experience with bupe what do you think it would be called?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:16 pm 
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subsux


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:55 am 
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hahaha glen and TJ love u guys!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:41 am 
Appreciate it dirty south. Keep it up man. Kick the shit outta sub, bro. When i was cold turkeying 12mg of sub for 6 days I was ready to snap at the drop of a pin. Use this as ammo to keep the fight going. I can only imagine how awesome it feels to not spend money on buying this stuff.

Bboy
I love this forum but I also wish people were more open to negative experiences with suboxone.

I hate that if any member says a bad thing about suboxone, no matter how much time they have on it no matter what they do or say you are wrong in every members eyes. I wish people would wake up and realize that suboxone isn't this miracle drug you all make it out to be. Sure it saved your life but it ruined mine but how come you guys can't accept that? Everyone of thes threads turns into world warIII the minute we question your guys posts? I just wish you guys can see both sides of the spectrum!


You ain't kidding Bboy, I feel like anytime i bring up the downside or side effects of this thing. It's instantly shot down to ANYTHING but the sub. I won't lie to myself. I don't take any other medication even though i'm prescribed benzos and z drugs. I don't want to hurt body and mind anymore then what im doing. Damage control, anybody? Clean up on isle 6!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:35 am 
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It's weird how I've all-of-the-sudden been thrown in the pro-Subber corner in some imaginary war. Personally I've found that now that a certain person (name omitted out of politeness) is not moderating this place is far more open minded than it once was. At one stage many members were afraid to post anything that was at all negative about Sub.

My initial post (that started so called "WW3") wasn't about being pro-Sub so much as being anti-rude. It was rude of the OP label everyone on the forum apart from a "few gems" as being pro-Sub and closed minded. My fault was being in a bad mood and fighting-fire-with-fire. Normally I'd just shrug it off.

It's like there's this imaginary tug-of-war between pro-Subbers and anti-Subbers where you gotta be in one camp or in another. I like to think it's a mentality left over from a previous era of suboxforum, and now that things have changed and there are no battlelines anymore eventually everyone can have their opinion and we'll live all peace love n mung beans.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:48 am 
I don't think your in that "pro sub" category at all teejay.

Were stuck in this middle man kinda situation it feels like. Not really sober not really high. lol, to me in likes being in limbo. Not quite sober not quite high. Keeping this up this will be the new normal. And i am doing all i can to look into the long term effects of having your receptors flooded with this stuff and being partially turned on all day and night long. Along with constantly taking more and more without letting a single half life go by to eliminate whats still remaining. I seriously don't think this can end while in regards to problems caused by this. No kidding sub withdraw is hard. Your friggen receptors have been in that unnatural partial stimulated setting. I want people to be more open minded to the fact that this stuff doesent have much solid info as to long term issues. We may or may not be the reason why serious long term side effects are added to the little leaflets that come with the script. It's almost asinine to NOT be questioning why a good amount of people are reporting problems with this drug. lol, for the most part. I would look at suboxone first as the culprit before looking at other stuff. (if this is all your taking) Please chime in if im missing something to this rhyme or reason?


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