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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Hello everyone,

My name is Joe and I live in Southern California. I'm a long-time opiate addict. Mostly hydros, but I have done pretty much every pharm there is, including snorting heroin a few times.

Right now, I'm using poppy pod tea since I've used up all of my pharm sources. I've only obtained pharms off the street a few times, I've always otherwise managed to obtain them semi-legally (diversion, please don't ask.) Anyway, those days are over, hence my self-imposed maint. on PPT.

Right now, my options are to titrated down the tea on my own, or go onto sub with a doctor who is skilled at titrating down as quickly as possible. The problem is, there are a ton of sub doctors in my area, but most of them are not to dissimilar from the plethora of medical marijuana doctors who are also in the area. Point being is that most of them are in it for the money, not to help people like us. I know some of you have excellent doctors and it sounds like the doctor running this forum is a good guy, so I'm definitely not putting down all doctors. But just saying what my own observations have been. My other problem is that I work in a sensitive industry. Unlike medicine, where there is some understanding, my industry has ZERO tolerance. So basically I am concerned about even going into sub treatment. Obviously, I'll do it if it will get me clean, but I know I can taper myself down. That's not the problem. The problem is the PAWS.

Let me explain. About 2000, I tapered down from a hydro habit and got seriously into running. I was opioid-free until Nov. of 2007, when I picked up a vike habit. Running had become my new drug, my new addiction, but it was a healthy addiction and my life was going great! I felt great, I was loathe to even take an advil and I was eating really well. I was doing lots of long-distance running, hiking, cycling, kayaking, mountain climbing, you name it, I did it. If I got hurt, I used natural remedies and, yes, sometimes advil (really, JUST advil), I was bound and determined to be opiate free. I did something everyday. If I missed a day of activity, I felt just like I did when I didn't use vikes.

In Nov. of 2007, a friend of mine got into an accident which opened her up to getting a pretty much unlimited supply of vikes. I had not been NEAR drugs for 7 years, but as they say, once a junkie, always a junkie, and she took her meds and I asked her for a couple and she relented and, well, I was valient in staving off daily use for many more months, but essentially I think most of you guys know what happened next. Fast forward to now. My friend, god bless her, is still my friend but she is fine now and no longer gets vikes and I was basically cut off. So that lead to poppy pods. Oddly enough, I had some pods from many years ago as PPT is how I originally detoxed myself from my first bout with vikes in 2000. I basically made the tea and made it weaker and weaker until I was drinking water. At the same time, I started running and that's how I transitioned.

I must admit my addition is worse this time and stronger. I'm still a long-distance runner, but I'm not in as good a shape as I was in say, 2005.

My plan is to start running again and getting my diet dialed in, then begin my taper. But I'm unsure if I should taper straight from the PPT, or if I should switch to suboxone?

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts you all might have regarding this. The PAWS worry me a lot, but I think that perhaps the problem I tried tapering last time too quickly. But maybe I need sub and to do a taper off of that? Just not sure.

Thanks to all who read and respond!

Joe


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:47 pm 
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How much hydrocodone were you using?

My -unprofessional- opinion is to avoid suboxone and detox yourself the easier way like you did before. Keep focused on what you want out of life and give it another shot. Suboxone should be used as a desperate measure, IMO. Like keeping someone from dying or ending up in jail. It should be used for people who try several times to get on clean on their own but can't. Plus, chances are the suboxone will be much stronger than what you are taking right now which will only set you back. I think in your case, using suboxone is not the best option.

Just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:02 pm 
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tinydancer, thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. I'm thinking more the way you are as well. If I *did* to sub, I'd want to do a rapid taper on it. I don't think I need the long-term. My life is not 'effed up from drugs (yet, the pods aren't cheap and I really wish I wasn't spending what I was spending.)

At worse, I was eating about 100mg. of hydro/day (I was CWE'ing, more afraid of the tylenol.)

Actually, I may already have gone to a stronger drug. The pods are pretty strong. Mostly morphine and codeine, from what I've read, but a bunch of other stuff as well, including thebane. I'm probably already looking at a worse detox from this than from the vikes.

At this point, I'm going to start tapering from the PPT.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:57 am 
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I would rather withdrawal from a 200mg oxy habit a day, than a 2mg suboxone habit a day. To put that in perspective. Suboxone used extremely short-term 2-4 days can help with quitting your original doc. It's just so difficult not to continue to reach for more. At some point you will be uncomfortable. It's pretty much guaranteed. I'd still take the 5-8 day W/D anyday though.

Either choice you go with let us know! And best of luck!

Welcome to Suboxforum!

-WTBF


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:54 am 
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WTBF, thanks for your thoughts, they are appreciated.

I'm pretty sure I'm not going to go the sub route as I think that it will just get me into trouble. Besides, around here, all the sub docs seem to be pretty much into it for the money and I just don't want to deal with all of that and the pressure to continue, especially if I find I LIKE sub.

My plan for now is to continue to SLOW TAPER the PPT and to ramp up my running and general exercise.

I really do wish that there were folks here who knew about poppy pods, though. They are a bit unique. They don't *seem* very strong, but they are. I used to actually get more euphoria from vikes, but this stuff is strong. I think it's the full-spectrum of opiate alkaloids in the tea. They have a very long half-life.

Anyway, thanks for your reply and good luck in your own journey!

Joe


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:02 pm 
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I am a former poppy pod addict, and I can tell you for sure that you went from the frying pan into the fire when you switched from hydro to pods. Although the method of extraction is different, it is EXACTLY the same as opium and the laudanum of the 19th and early 20th centuries. They contain over 100 active alkaloids, of which morphine, codeine, thebaine and scopolamine are just a few. I remember having visions on that stuff, and there are many a day I fantasize about going back there. But it did not end well, I promise.
I agree with what has been said by others, if you succeeded in tapering by going to weaker and weaker brews (good idea), it is definitely worth at least trying to do it again. Suboxone isn't going anywhere. If you find at some point down the road that you can't get or stay off of opiates and you are having escalating consequences you can always consider Sub then.
In the meantime, see you if you can find some support. Getting off of strong opiates is not a do it yourself project - even if you succeeded in the past. You said yourself that your addiction is getting worse. Opiate addiction always does. There are probably a lot of recovery groups in your area. Please reach out. It helps so much to have someone to call in a weak moment. I wish you the best. Keep us posted on what you decide.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Lilly,

Thanks for your reply. How did you find the WD's/PAWS on the PPT? That's the thing I fear the most. I want to basically keep tapering down as much as possible before completely jumping.

Thanks,

Joe


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