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 Post subject: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:24 am 
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After a month of waiting for my appointment with the addiction councilor I am now wondering what I should do. I was honest with him about my issues—but I am feeling like the he was just pushing me along with “The Program” and not looking at me--as a whole. At least that’s how I feel right now.
I turned to Suboxone 5 years ago because of my increasing pain pill usage (up to 40 mgs. Vicodin a day). I got the Subs from a friend, and have never used more than 1 mg. per day—to ward off withdrawals (when I talked with my doctor 5 years ago about the pills, he said that I wasn’t really addicted, and he gave me Clonidine to ease the discomfort).
I broke my arm 4 months ago, and when the Oxy 10’s ran out, I found myself in trouble (that’s when I attempted a cure with Ibogaine…another story…)
So now I’m on black market subs again, and trying to get into this program (CODA). I spent 3 hours today going over everything with the counselor.
I also have been taking Xanax for 5 years for sleep and anxiety (prescription), and when I called last month for the CODA appointment they told me I couldn’t be on Benzos if I wanted into the Suboxone program. So I asked my doctor to switch me to Ambien—and I tapered off the .5 mg. Xanax.
Turns out, I can’t be on Ambien either (is there any amount of Suboxone/alcohol/Xanax that is safe?) I could find a way to help sleep that doesn’t come in a pill, but do I have to completely turn my life over to absolute abstinence and support groups? For-the-rest-of-my-life?)
So, I am to stop drinking (1 or 2 cocktails a night for the last ten years--never drank hard or had a problem here). I am to stop Ambien. I am to stop Suboxone…and schedule an in-patient detox for at least five days…and then he said it would be at least a week or two after detoxing before I would be able to see a doctor to receive a subscription for Suboxone (?!!!)…And, if I have any black market Suboxone in my system at that time, they will kick me out of the program. It sounds like I will be at the complete mercy of total uncertainty (by a man who admittedly was overloaded by addicts “coming out of the woodwork”)!
Also, the five-day detox will be for just the “sever” alcohol addiction (his phrase), and then I can start Suboxone legitimately, and attempt a tapering schedule.
My concerns are: what about the reasons I am on Xanax in the first place (it’s been two weeks since any Xanax, and I still feel a little jittery…)
I have a family, teen daughter, job, wife, dog…and everything else that blesses and harangues me every day—along with my core chemistry that has shown in the past that I require a little “maintenance” or help in day-to-day life. At the end of the day I look forward to my “One Drink per Night”, or on occasion two, but the CODA councilor says I have to get back to my “core self”, and participate in at least 4 nights a week at support meetings (I am 61 years old and have never been behind bars, in AA or anything harsher than a bible study group).
I know addiction is a serious matter, but I now have a feeling of doom after the meeting this afternoon. And then the question of the hour: What about the rest of my life? Total sobriety is a nice idea…but?
I just wanted to stop taking pills—not become a f**king priest!
Thanks for any input/advice!


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:24 am 
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Welcome bad hobbit. I can't answer most of your questions but I can answer the Ambien one. It shows up as a benzo on some drug tests. It sounds like your eval was done by someone who was bias towards abstinence based treatment. maybe you can look for a different doctor or clinic that is more pro opiate replacement therapy. I have been on suboxone for ten plus years and am on my fourth sub doctor. None of them had me go through five day detox. Most sub doctors just require that you be off opiates long enough to be in withdrawal before you are induced. 40 mg a day of opiates can be a full blown addiction, my use was 50 to 60 mg of hydrocodone a day and I could not stop . Most sub doctors require abstinence from all other mood altering substances. I have never liked alcohol, but at a wedding I will have a glass or two of champagne. I just don't advertise it. Don't create and issue for yourself. Best of luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:27 pm 
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Not all docs who prescribe buprenorphine have that same attitude. I wan't people off agonists for a good 12 hours or more, but many people simply cannot go 5 days without using! And if a person is on illicit buprenorphine, I'm assured that they won't have any bad reaction to the buprenorphine or Suboxone that I prescribe. Why would I want a person to stop using the exact medication that they NEED? If a person has high blood pressure, asthma, or diabetes, and has found a way to treat the condition (correctly) before scheduling an appointment with a physician, would it make sense to STOP their medication for five days??

I'm trying to see it from a different point of view-- but I can't think of a reason to stop it for 5 days. Anyone else have any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:34 am 
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The counselor didn’t know what to do with me. I filled out all the paperwork the day before (took 1 hour), and he went through it all with me in person: Never been arrested?...right? Don’t have Aids?...right? Never use needles?...right? (on and on and on with health issues that I had clearly marked “No” on the paperwork before.
I am a 61 y.o. contractor with a business and a family that attends church and PTA meetings. I’m not overweight, don’t smoke, don’t pick up prostitutes or sleep around (?!)…and somehow my being in his office just didn’t sit well with him. There has to be something more to this picture than what I was telling him (he spent 3 hours with me, while his 4:30 appointment was kept waiting).
Finally, he summed up my diagnosis: Opioid Addiction—Sever. Alcohol—Sever (I told him that I have been drinking for 45 years, but never out of control. That I only have one or two drinks a night, and that I lately don’t finish my One-Drink-Per-Night.)
Sever?!
He told me I would have to go through detox for 5 days to just get a bearing on where I stand…and then I might be able to see one of their doctors within 2 weeks to “probably” get on Suboxone. Not certain. He’s not a doctor. He didn’t know when and if I’d be able to see a doctor…
WTF?!
Also, because they told me on the phone the month before (took 30 days to get in to see him…) that I would not be eligible for Suboxone treatment if I was on Xanax (.5 mg.), so I switched to Ambien for sleep, and I spent 2 weeks tapering off the benzodiazepines to the sleep aid, but I still feel a bit jittery (and I know it’s not the Suboxone…it’s the stress from dealing with this system and the stigma of my addictions…)
And although I could, and though it would be nice, I don’t think it would be a good idea getting back on Xanax…


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:46 am 
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Maybe , just maybe he doesn't think you are "bad" enought to do there program. Just a idea.
They see so many sicker type people, you just do nt "fit" into there idea of a "bad addict".

The wait of 5 days could be ,in there eyes, a way to get you detoxed off of your 40 mg habit. Then you would be free and clear. Why then be on Buprenorphine? . Im not saying it s right,
Just a thought...

We all know here that it is the Staying Stopped" that makes up the addiction. You deserve a better introduction in my opinion.

Any chance you could look or find a different place or dr? All this crap would have me looking thats for sure.

My dr is a total abstinence program with Buprenorphine only. Meetings, the whole bit. Some others are much more lenient. I know how your feeling. At 52 I was put in a group, I had a "little pill problem ", I had a life. I didn't feel I needed to stop drinking alittle. Or change everything. That was almost 6 years ago. Looking back on it I needed everything they offered. A change in my thinking about things. But thats just me....

My 2 cents Bad, hang in there..

Razor


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:22 pm 
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You're not going to like my opinion but I'll say it anyway. Taking 40 mg's of Hydrocodone is hardly an addiction. Was it out of control or were you just taking them per the perscription? Many pain patients take that amount or more daily and although they are physically dependent on the opiate I wouldn't call it addiction. A nice slow taper off the Vicodin would be enough.

My wife is not an addict. She takes between 4-6 Norco 10's a day. Mostly 4. It is for chronic RLS which is as bad as any doctor has seen and only an opiate makes her legs stop the movement. Many, many times she has run out and gone through withdrawals until the pharmacy gets the new supply in. She considers it a cleansing of her liver and other organs. She needs to take an Ambien to help sleep but her w/d effects are not much to get all upset about. She brushes it off and says she's fine. Do you see where I'm going with this?

With me, I was a weanie. No way did I want to go through w/d's if I didn't have to. But I knew it wasn't really all that bad. A week and a few days then I'd be fine. A mental craving was there but no physical. I was taking between 120-160 mg's of hydrocodone along with 10-16 tramadols a day plus add in 8-12 Soma's to give me the drunk effect. Only Suboxone got me off those meds. And I too was told I couldn't take my Xanax .5 either. They made me bring in my RX bottle to prove I didn't have anymore. A different doctor in another state does give me a small amount now but I know I should be off those too. ( I am currently tapering down)

In my opinion you should just stop the pain pills, go to NA, and work the program if you feel you're an addict. If you're not, then just bite the bullet and go through withdrawals and be done with it. Time heals all.

Maybe I'm way off on this one and tell me so if I am. Only you know if your an addict/alcoholic. No one can give you that label other than yourself. Time for a self assessment.

Good luck!

Rule

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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:50 pm 
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Hey BH,

I believe all the above comments well apply even tho I read it that you're on 1mg/day street bup and are trying to get into a legit program for a script. Guessing your recent arm fracture w oxys turned your brain back on to wanting more and the bup is to keep you from going back out. Imo and ime, the detox is unusual, in fact is the first I've heard unless its as said above to push you to realize/decide your level of addiction. Lots here get on a bup program straight from their doc or from street bup and do well. I have no opinion on drinks at night but refer you back to jeandianne's comments. At face value, the detox seems too much for your situation but we often don't know the whole story. I will ask as the others have - can you get into another Dr.? Wishing you my best, P

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:57 am 
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What a difficult road, this addiction thing is…
Yes, I am trying to see another clinic that prescribes Suboxone—but I got a phone message saying to state my name and number, and someone will get back to me within a week…
It’s been 3 days.
I think I’d like to kick the opioids completely—to do the rehab…I just need the proper guidance and assurance that I will be watched over. That’s not what I heard at CODA (after a 5 day rehab, I might be able to start my “proper” Suboxone administration). I just gotta believe in whatever direction I am going (how am I supposed to go through hell, with no clear idea what is waiting on the other side?) And as for drinking, and you might not believe this, but the Ibogaine took all pleasure out of alcohol (I still drink some beer or wine, but only one or so with dinner). It feels like I left a part of myself back there when I tried to detox on my own (some things I wanted to leave behind)…and it often feels like I am still processing, integrating, the experience, 5 weeks later…
Thanks to everyone for your input!


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:31 am 
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Thank you to everyone who commented here. Good news, I got into the CODA Suboxone program! After 2 months of perseverance, I finally got in to see the doc and was prescribed 2 mgs. per day of Subs (I take about one mgs. per day). And as with some of the remarks I got here, everyone at CODA said that I was very unusual in the small amounts that I am dealing with. But the truth is, withdrawal is withdrawal! I may not have done large amounts of drugs, but I’ve been using s**t for 40 years…
I stopped drinking 30 days ago. Piece of cake. I stopped taking .5 mgs + Xanax 6 weeks ago—not as easy, but I think I’m past it. So now I am going to try to tapper—with the doctor’s help—and get back to “normal”. I have a constant “buzz/dizziness” that will not go away. I want to be clean and clear again.
:D
P.S. Is the dizziness and jitters from missing the xanax?


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:49 am 
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badhobbit, I have a few new thoughts for you. I did alcohol and drug evals for over ten years full time and am trying to get into the head space of your counselor. A client that describes vague amounts of alcohol use along with daily use is suspicious for alcoholism. Counselor might have thought that a five day detox would bring to light your true substance use pattern. In a way the 5 day detox would be an extended eval.
Assuming that the person who did your eval was off base, I can just say go to a different doctor. As for as the benzo problem, clonazepam is not usually tested for since the standard tests had so many false positives. You might possibly be tested for it initially using an expensive test sent to an outside lab, but I have had dozens of drug screens and my clonazepam (.5 mg daily) has never showed.

Just some random thoughts about chemical dependency evals. Answers such as a few, couple, only on weekends, special occaisions, not that much, not that often, hardly ever, in response to specific questions such as how often or how much of a certain substance you used are bad answers. Also reciting a list of times and places that you don't use to the above questions are also not good answers. Sorry for getting off topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Going into Detox?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:15 am 
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I am at the crossroads of home detox or a program. I feel for you and your situation. When you said you thought the councelor was just trying to get you going with the program or something like that; it is a sign that profit dictates over your indivigual needs. I am on bup and klons for the last 10 years about. I have a good doctor and give clean drug screens but am i really clean? I used to do dope than methadone than subs. The benzo was always in the mix. I have always been able to get this combo since way back. I'm not bragging in any way. It is a curse to me. I'm getting my mind right to detox off both. In my situation the home method is too stressful and you know what that means.
So I am going to shop for a inpatient program that cares about my recovery by my terms and not a factory detox pumping people out for profit.
I'd talk to these places and you know if something is off. For both of us it is about getting off everything and staying off God willing. So don't settle for second best. I will keep you in my prayers.


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