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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:42 pm 
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Lilly, how about an update?

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 Post subject: Hey Girl,
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:32 pm 
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My hero,

How are you doing? I'm curious to know how this works out. We are here for you baby sweets. Be strong o.k?

Love you so much, Queenie


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:16 pm 
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Awh I stop by once a month and no Lilly update?

Getouttahereeeeee

Hope everything is well Lilly!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Lily, I have read your posts now off and on this last year now and have to say I relate TOTALLY to your situation and feel my experience on sub and overall perception is so similar to your experience. That is why every time I see you post, I always relate, learn something and believe me, I actually somewhat expected this thread to be seen from you at some point because I understand your foundational concerns were always side affects and what it does to you so this experience you've had recently and more importantly decision;s surrounding your choices are well grounded.. I believe this is how God allows us to find our way. You know exactly what you need now. Which helps align our commitment and focus of what we have already been through and eliminates that doubt to move forward and not be hindered by "looking to the right and left". Keeping a straight forward approach now.

I think it is awesome you are owning your decision and moving forward on getting off for good. I have been learning myself. and your experience has helped me with mine. Thanks so much for posting this thread. My prayers will continue to be with you.

Many blessings on your recovery and your commitment.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:13 pm 
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Hi Lilly,
Congrats and taking the time to do whats best for you. I am hoping that things are going well for you now. I would love it very much if you could come back and give us an update. I am considering a detox much liker yours and would love if you could share.


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 Post subject: Hello
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:15 pm 
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How are you my hero?

I'm wondering if you are home now or still in rehab. Send us a line so we know how you are doing.

I admire your strength and look forward to hearing how it went.

Queenie


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:06 am 
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Back by popular demand...........(drumroll please)

Ok guys, I wanted to wait until I was in my right mind to post about all this, but since that won't be anytime soon I'm just going to do the best I can. This is just one addict's experience and opinion about Sub (mostly negative). I'm not going into a pro-Sub vs. anti- Sub argument. Please lets not go down that well worn path AGAIN. If you really must challenge me then lets take it to another thread.

1) if you're thinking about jumping off 16 mg cold turkey DON'T FUCKING DO IT. IT'S INSANE. Detox or no detox, it's gonna hurt....bad. I know others have tried this at home and succeeded. They must have superhuman powers and Godlike serenity.
I wanted to keep a log or something for you guys, but I just couldn't pull it off, I could barely write my name by week 2. So I'll just give you what I remember week by week.

Week 1: I was pretty much fine. They were giving me what I believe to be hydro/Valium/phenegren. Had so much Sub in my system I never felt ANY opiate at all. As the amount of Sub decreased in my body they were tapering me so it was like a break even thing. The Valium on the other hand totally wiped me out. I have no Benzo tolerance. After about 3 days of practically drooling in my soup I asked them to dial it back so I could function. They gave us Vistaril and melatonin every night and I slept well.

Week 2: All Hell broke loose. It started with about 3 days of almost non-stop crying. Then I had horrifying demonic nightmares and sleep paralysis (which I have had before, but not with demons hanging over me). To say I flipped the fuck out it putting it mildly. I'm known as a very calm person in a crisis, but all that went out the window. I was screaming and pleading for people not to leave me. My super awesome roommate who was sick as a dog, puking everyday coming off of methadone, was sitting up all night with me. I called my minister in the middle of the night and told him I was surrounded by demons ( which I don't really even believe in) and asked him if I should be psych warded. A lot of people were praying for my roommate and I and the feeling passed. But that was some scary shit. In hindsight I believe it was my spirit (or God) casting off the "demon" of my addiction.

After the fear came the rage. And thank God I was in a detox facility. I was going off on people, telling them to fuck off, when someone told me I couldn't do something I told them to go fuck themselves and did it anyway. I was straight out of hell. It was all I could do to stop myself from busting a chair across someone's face. (this was all to the people in charge, not the other addicts, apparently I have some authority figure issues). I know you have no way of knowing if this is true, but I'm known at home as a peace loving person (and I am). I've even had people tell me I'm the mellowest person they know. Not so much in detox. Then I felt guilty and went back to the crying.

Week 3: dopesick. Diarrhea non-stop. Couldn't eat anything. Was down to dry toast. At one point I was so dehydrated the nurses triaged me. Mt systolic BP was 70. They stood there and forced me to drink Gatorade. They kept trying to give me Imodium and I kept telling them it binds to the opiate receptors in your gut, and they were telling me I was wrong until I looked up and showed them the proof. I was miserable and felt like jumping out of my skin. Starting to not sleep. Was smoking tons of cigarettes even though I don't smoke. Oh yeah, and then there was the anxiety....

Sidebar: there was another guy down there coming off a high dose of Suboxone. He was equally as miserable but with totally different symptoms. Sweats, chills, leg pain, non- stop goose flesh. Wanting to tear his skin off. The sick part was all the junkies were like "we feel sorry for you guys". They were all sitting up eating, laughing and in (mostly ) their right mind after 5-7 days. Several other addicts told us we should have gone on oxy or heroin for a month before going there. And they were right, but who's to say we would have made it down there after that?

Week 4: Went home, which was a major kick in the head. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, was shaking like a leaf and my stomach was absolutely killing me from not eating, and I was SO weak - could barely make it up the stairs. I thought I was going to have some help at home for the first few days, but my husband got called into work and it was on me to take care of the kids and all the other stuff that was coming at me. It was good to be forced to get up and do stuff, but it was SO FUCKING HARD. My sleep was down to 2-3 hours a night and I never ate more than 300-400 calories a day (which would promptly shoot out of me - sorry, but you asked). My doctor gave me clonidine and Vistaril. The clonidine brought my blood pressure down too low. The Vistaril seems to help. The last 2 nights I had 6 and 5 hours respectively, which I think is pretty darn good, but I feel like dogshit. I wake up feeling mildly dopesick every day. And my temper is flaring, but I've managed 90% to not take it out on my kids, even if it means me walking out the door.

I told my psychiatrist all of the above, and she pieced it together with the ONLY 2 other patients she has actually seen come off Suboxone (even though one isn't all the way off yet). She said she was calling Reckett-Benkiser to complain about their false, lying, bullshit about Sub have little or minimal withdrawal. And she filing and FDA report. (I also filed one last year when I went off Suboxone)

I pity the day I ever went on Suboxone. And if you feel okay, or you're good on it or whatever, all I can say is don't judge how you are until you go off of it. I realize now I was FUCKED UP OUT OF MY MIND ON IT. That's me. Take what you need and leave the rest.
Right now for them first time in years, except for the few months I was off Sub, I FEEL every emotion: happy, sad, desire, fear, anger - and I like all of them. I'm not afraid of any of them anymore.

What you can do to feel better if you're going through this:
1. Sex and orgasm, as much as possible. If you don't have a partner, do it for yourself
2. Prayer, sorry, God I didn't put that as #1, but that's where I'm at right now
3. Other human touch, hugging, holding someone's hand, holding a baby
4. Laughter. My sponsor cracks me up and I feel better than on drugs after a couple of hours with her.
5. Hot showers, baths with Epsom salts
6. Support - I'm going to meetings and taking suggestions for the first time. Picking up a 30 day key tag today
7. Most important, TIME, the only thing that's going to beat this bitch is time. And I'm not giving in. I'm too old, I've been through too much, and this last run (including my time on Sub) almost cost me my life, the lives of my family and my marriage. My ego is totally shattered. I'm beaten. I'm willing to go to any lengths to stay clean.

Finally: I have nothing but the upmost respect for Dr. Junig, his opinions and his website. In fact, I owe him a huge debt of gratitude. And yes, I do believe in harm reduction. But for the suburban pill head I started out as, Suboxone threw me from the frying pan into the fire. It wasn't until my relapse AFTER Suboxone that I picked up heroin for the first time, why? Because no amount of pills I could cop on the street could even come near getting me high anymore. I feel like I've been, tricked, defrauded, used as a laboratory rat and been blatantly lied to by RB. At this point I would rather put a gun to my head than EVER put another Suboxone in my mouth.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Wow, Lily, Im speechless. Thank you for your update - but Wow!!!! I was hoping for a more positive experience for you (which my heart and prayers do go out to you for comfort, peace from God ) - still...Wow..is all Im still left with to digest all this.

I agree and respect your comment about this isnt about pro Sub but the moral I receive from reading your story for me is I
would no more trust my withdrawal experience to a Rehab clinic then I do trusting the average doctor and pharmacist when it comes to this drug. You already knew that jumping that high would be brutal compared to tapering (you even said yourself when you tapered earlier that you did it with minimal drama as to what you could be dealing with if done responsibly). So my issues are just more with the overall LACK of discernment from so called professionals - you doc who recommended 16mg to begin with (you were listening to her) and the Rehab for taking your money to just put you in a room and scream (that is how I see your basic "treatment"). You said you were one of 2 sub withdrwals. Reminds me when I was put in a hosptial for eating disorder (right near the Karen Carpenter days). Noone understood bulemia and anorexia..I was put in amongst alot of staff "figuring it out" as they went along. Took me less than half a day to get the hell out of there. They had no more clue why I did what I did and how I did then the average fool. They sure convinced my parents they had it all figured out and took their money! Took me another 15 years to get well from that hell - ON MY OWN. - I dont blame Sub (it is strong narcotic) but when people tell you to jump when they have no plan and will ignore you when you say..hey that doesnt seem like it is the best way...THAT pisses me off. But - hey..Im past arguing..just do it myself the way that I know. Finding others in the same boat and learn from eachother.

You should have been able to seek adequate counsel and attention from both your doc and rehab which (to me) both royally failed you. I feel you had more knowledge and support and WISDOM and moreover your OWN experiences than to refer to these "so called" professionals. I understand you were tired though. I have read where you said "you just wanted to listen for a change". So I hear ya..you were hoping that maybe for once, you could trust yourself to these folk's that "know better". Afterall they are professionals right>?

You are in a good place now..you can move forward as you now have time behind you..something many of us can't say. You have that number (post "0") that I can only long for so God's blessings to you and keep moving forward.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:20 pm 
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Dont let this post freak you out about getting off Suboxone. This is just one persons experience. I, personally got off Suboxone and it was not near that bad. I did taper down to 2mg before I jumped. I stayed off Suboxone for a year. So my advice would be to taper down a little before you jump off. I can image how bad I would of felt if I was jumping from 16mg.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Holy shiznit...not sure what to say. I am sorry it was that tough for you, and I pray that it won't be like that for me. I was also "just" on pills, though bad..taking like 10-15 hydro a day to subs. As a teenager I kicked a very bad H habbitt CT, and it was nothing like you describe. All I can say is I am sorry it was like that for you...I am gearing up to go to war..Most would tell me not to even read your post(or similar ones) but I want to know the good, the bad and the ugly. It's who I am.

At least you are over the worst of it and are starting to experience emotions again..boy do I long for those. I have this feeling when I am off the subs, I too will look back and think "Man I was high as a kite!".

Please continue to be strong....I love your advice and will take it to heart when the time comes. If anything your post didn't "scare me way from quitting"...it only reinforced the idea that I need to taper down, becasue even though I am headed to war, I am no combat soldier and not as "tough" as I used to be in my teens.

Please try to keep us updated!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Lilly,

I have no words.. no jokes.. I'm just feeling pretty bad that you went through all that. It sounds traumatizing to say the least. It kind of seems like you're hanging in there at this point and starting to see a few of the positives in all this.. sex, god, laughter.. you know the usual suspects! I did not, however, hear a mention of music? Please tell me you're using music at this stage to comfort your soul?!

Anyway, I'm truly sorry you've had such a rough few weeks. You took "ripping it off like a band aid" to a whole new level. I hope it only gets better from here on out.

(hugs)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:54 am 
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Yes, definately music - and exercise (very light at this point). And guys, I'm NOT traumatized. I actually feel it was a very good detox, staffed all with recovering addicts, who either held my hand, talked me through it or gave me aid and comfort. Maybe I should point out that 75% of what I went through was mental/emotional. I attended 2 meetings a day and usually tai chi or yoga (except when I got really dehydrated). Maybe because I was feeling so negative I wrote only the negatives. I'm actually happy I did it. It sucked, but it's over (like the ripping off a band-aid analogy). I could never do a drawn out taper. As soon as I started feeling shitty I would just take more. Sometimes you just have to reach way down deep and pull out that warrior within you. I am extremely GRATEFUL to be clean today. Also, do it the hard way or the easy way, but the detox itself is nothing. The real work is in STAYING clean. Come hell or high water I'm not picking up drugs today NO MATTER WHAT.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:25 am 
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I know 4 people who did rapid detox and all claimed PAWS for 6 months to 2 years at the most, so be aware of that creeping up. I think for rapid detox people should wean down much as possible and then do the detox, to make it easier..

I myself is leaning towards Iboga, why go through months and years of misery when there is another tool out there?

allow suboxone taper and withdrawals, sub is just too strong to taper, and even then people get long withdrawals and PAWS..Seems rapid and Iboga is way to go..


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:27 am 
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It also seems what people go through in rapid detox is what people go through at home i.e 2-3 weeks of withdrawals and symptoms, so then the question arises was all that money worth it to feel rough for those weeks when you could have done it at home...So many questions, but the worst is the PAWS.


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 Post subject: Hi sweetheart,
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:08 am 
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I'm glad you're home. I read everything you wrote carefully and I want to thank you for sharing your experience with us.

I must admit, it scared me a little. Queenie is too old to go through that. Being a double amputee as of 5 and 3 years ago and I had a heart attack, I am on heart meds. My circulatory system is very vulnerable. I am on 16 mgs of sub a day and my sub dr. just gave me a 6 month supply(5 refills). He feels I should just stay on the sub for now and I am to see him again in 6 months. I guess he has his reasons.

One poster(sorry, I don't remember the name)said "I realize I was high as a kite". Now I don't know about that. I don't feel high on subs. I think I would know if I feel high. Everybody has their story about how they feel on subs and yes, I do realize everyone is different. I am going to do the best I can at this stage of the game. I'm having enough trouble trying to walk on 2 artificial legs so I can't handle much more right now.

As for you, my sweet Lillyval, stay positive, stay strong. Show the world what you are made of. You say you are a mild mannered person. I am too but sometimes we have to get a little attitude. Bitch a little. Be a tough broad(old saying).

I wish you the VERY best and please keep writing to me telling me the same. I know you will be the winner in this fight. Until I hear from you again, I am sending you a huge, warm bear hug and a kiss on each of those victorious cheeks. You go girl! Just think, you don't have to go out & buy drugs anymore. "Ain't nobody got time for dat" LOL.

Your Queenie always


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:39 pm 
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Queenie, you are so awesome, your post left me smiling from ear to ear. :D If anyone's a tough old broad it's you - you've been through it all - surgeries, amputations, heart attack and you still stay clean and come here offering other people support. Your posts and PMs mean the world to me. As far as getting off Sub, don't even think about it, woman! It's working for you, helping you stay clean, helping your pain and you feel normal on it. If it ain't broke don't fix it. My story is just that, my story. I really didn't mean to come on here and freak people out. I'm already over it, I'm feeling better, eating better sleeping better and getting out of the house.
I feel truly grateful and blessed today.
(((( hugs))))
Lilly


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 Post subject: Welcome Back
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Hi Lilly,

I too have been reading your thread since the beginning. All the ups and downs you have been through is amazing. You are one strong woman and I know you'll stay strong in the future. Reading your experience in the detox/rehab place had me grinding my teeth. You have been to Hell and back again and came out on top.

Please keep this thread alive so everyone can see what you went through. I surely cannot fathom jumping from 16 mg's but you did it. Because of what you went through, tapering sure looks a lot better!

You do know how much people here care for you. Stay clean and stay strong. May the PAWS be gentle to you, you've suffered enough already.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Lilly, I am so glad that all of that physical and emotional crap is behind you and you are on the other side! Maybe you won't feel better every single day from here on out, but it's definitely going to be an upward trend! While jumping from 16mg isn't my bag, the benefit is that you will never forget how horrific it was for you and how you're not going back there!

The positive of detoxing in a facility is that you had people around you when you needed them. With the demands of kids and a not so understanding spouse at home, I'm sure you were better off jumping from that high dose where you were than you would have been at home.

Your way of doing things doesn't have to be my way for me to support you and wish you the best. This forum wouldn't be the same without you so keep on letting us know how things are going!

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Im glad you made it Lily and are feeling good today. It sounded rough.

Its good you are getting support in the real world too. Keep us posted! I am thinking about ya and praying too. You are a strong SOBER woman Lilly! Awesome!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:34 pm 
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Lilly,

That was a brutal detox, but you made it!! You got your ass kicked, but you didn't throw in the towel....you are now officially a Rock Star!!! :D

My hat is off to you!

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