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 Post subject: Going back to treatment?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:25 am 
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Hey guys! Question for everyone. I was on subs several years ago for 3 years, got clean and stayed clean for 3 years no drugs or anything. Now I relapsed slightly and have been finding myself using. I don't have a lot of funds to go back into treatment but I am looking for treatment again, sadly. It saved my life. What are the the best and least expensive ways about going to treatment as most doctors are cash only, have high co pays, or don't accept insurance at all. I feel there should be a government assistance program similar to methadone but sadly there is not. I've also read an article recently that regular primary care doctors and NP's can now write scrips for sub and other medications for opiate dependance. Please help! I have tried quitting again, going back and fourth and I've thought about the worst, I can't take it any longer, I can't hide it from my family..... My cousin who was my age at 28 overdosed and die recently and it sent me into a dark area, that is when I started using again. I am using the NAABT website and it was a godsend the first time however now the doctors I call laugh about insurance, talk shit on programs that are insurance based... the lady said I would pay $250 a month and that includes the therapist sessions that are required by your health insurance company. NO LIE they stated "you wouldn't want to be in a building with 30-40 people nodding off, on dope, trading and selling their suboxone in the waiting room, that's why you need to visit us once a month in a private doctors office.... we only bring 2-3 people in a once and you won't be seen by your neighbors or locals. They even joked about not prescribing subutex since the DEA gets mad at them... (this shit isn't a fucking joke, and I'm not just looking for subs to sell or get high on) It's really sad everyone i've called does not accept insurance so far and treat you like you're made of money.... There needs to be a review system for the doctors. I'd love to go back to my original doctor however he raised his co-pay. Why even have health insurance? It's a serious epidemic and I feel for anyone struggling. It's a damn shame for the people who sell their medicine and take it as joke and keep getting high. Some of us really need help. Most people might question if it's so expensive to get treatment I might as well keep getting high. Any help would be great. Hoping all of you guys on the program get better and coming off of it is possible and not as bad as you think. Take your time.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:22 pm 
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Where are you located? I'm in Georgia and there's two doctors in my town who both take insurance. Both doctors are recovering addicts and will work with you if you don't have insurance as long as you stay clean while seeing them.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:30 am 
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In Wisconsin, methadone is covered by medicaid, but anyone not on medicaid pays $600 per month. Methadone treatment is not covered by private insurance in Wisconsin, and is not provided on a 'government assistance program'.

The idea of 'programs being so expensive that you may as well keep using' is distorted thinking. First, the idea (which I hear often) is often presented as a threat-- as if someone other than the patient gains from getting treatment. If a person is on the fence about using vs. treatment, then that person isn't a great candidate for treatment-- especially when treatment spots are limited.

But more than that, let's say that a treatment program costs you $300 per month. You don't find that to be a good deal? How many people out there sustain an opioid addiction for less than $10 per day? Even if your addiction only costs $10 per day, you don't find ANY value in treatment? You wouldn't pay an extra $100 per month beyond what you are paying now, for the drugs that are destroying you?!

If you are serious about your problem, I would think you would be willing to pay at least the same amount of money you are paying now to use. So strange that people will spend every dime they have and then some on the downhill side, but then count their pennies when it comes to getting better.

The issues you described that you heard on the phone are valid and true. A doctor getting paid $70 from an insurer (or $36 from medicaid) must run a different practice than a doctor charging $200 for an appointment. I've practiced both ways as a psychiatrist; I have worked for clinics that accepted insurance, that made me see 4-6 patients every hour, and realized that the care I could provide was very limited. So now I see 2 people per hour, each for a full 30 minutes, always starting on time-- instead of making people wait for an hour, only to get a 7-minute appointment.

Realize that becoming a doctor is very expensive. A relative of mine is in residency, not even keeping up with the interest on his $250,000 in loans. Once in practice there are costs for rent, malpractice insurance, CME, licensing, etc that make up a significant part of a patient's bill. Psychiatrists and addiction docs borrow just as much for their training and education, but are at the bottom of the pay scale among other doctors. One reason it is hard to find doctors prescribing buprenorphine is because it isn't a lucrative area of medicine. That's good though, as it contributes to having doctors who are passionate about helping people with addictions.

I hope you find help-- but I also hope you spend as much of your resources on getting better as you did on getting sick. In the meantime you're getting nothing at all for your money-- except sicker.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:51 pm 
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I think Dr. J nailed it. How much would we have spent in getting a fix? Money was no object when it came to my pills. The dealer named his price, and I was more than willing to pay it.

Now, I'm on the other side of the fence. The secretary tells me the cost of my visit, $150, and I pay her. The pharmacy tells me the cost of the med that he prescribed me, and I pay that.
What I pay now pales in comparison to what I used to pay.

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Hoping all of you guys on the program get better and coming off of it is possible and not as bad as you think. Take your time.


I am on the program AND I am better. How's that for irony?

I hope that I'm not seeing 'that' mindset...from yet another person on this forum...
That attitude that says "you've just traded one drug for another, and you need to get off Suboxone and aren't clean until that happens"..

Maybe I read what you typed in the wrong way. Some clarification may be useful here.

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October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:31 pm 
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All due respect Jonathan, but it may have been a while since you picked yourself up from a relapse. Often finances are incredibly tight once a person pulls themselves out from the gutter, and assistance is needed to get them back on the right path until they are stable and financially independent again.

Telling a person that they should be more like yourself and just pay up doesn't necessarily help anyone.

Also people are willing to do all kinds of crime to pay for their illegal drugs. Theft, burglary, fraud, rorts and even violence. It's understandable if a person who's trying to pick themselves up is also trying to put those behaviours behind them and do the right thing for a change. We can't expect people to practice the same dishonesty of their addiction in their recovery in order to pay for their Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:59 am 
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i recently found a new dr on suboxone's website that takes insurance. there is also the dr finder on the main page here. i did have 2 dr's reply to me there that also take insurance, but they were further away than the one i found.
just take into consideration how much you're spending on your drug of choice now and how much you'll spend in the long run if you keep using.

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Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:06 am 
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TeeJay wrote:
All due respect Jonathan, but it may have been a while since you picked yourself up from a relapse. Often finances are incredibly tight once a person pulls themselves out from the gutter, and assistance is needed to get them back on the right path until they are stable and financially independent again.

Telling a person that they should be more like yourself and just pay up doesn't necessarily help anyone.

Also people are willing to do all kinds of crime to pay for their illegal drugs. Theft, burglary, fraud, rorts and even violence. It's understandable if a person who's trying to pick themselves up is also trying to put those behaviours behind them and do the right thing for a change. We can't expect people to practice the same dishonesty of their addiction in their recovery in order to pay for their Suboxone.


I'm not suggesting anyone should be more like myself. Wanna know what my finances were like when I got cleaned up? I had no insurance...I had no $150/3month fee...
I had a $350 1st week fee that covered the 2nd week...the 3rd week would require me to pay $180 ...and 4th week..and every week beyond the initial first 2 visits would be $180 until I reached 3 months of steady weekly visits. So, for the first 12 weeks of my Suboxone treatment, I would need to pay 10 weeks @ $180 each week...and the initial $350...that was over $2000 in 3 months to get me cleaned up. I couldn't do it...and relapsed. After the 2nd week I couldn't afford the cost..
Went back to my oxys.
Went for the 4th week visit...and was told if I skipped another week I would be booted from that program for non-compliance...even though it was financial and I couldn't do anything about it (had no job, and no way of getting the money to make it work out for me)...
So I spent that 4th week in anxiety, knowing that I couldn't make the visit on the 5th week.
But I enjoyed being clean so much that I knew I needed to find another way to make that happen with either that same Dr, or find a different doctor that I could visit, at a cheaper cost.
It was 3 months of being back in addiction before that came to fruition.
I finally found a doctor that would see me, and began treatment ...
At that point, the doctor didn't take insurance for the office visit, but my medication was covered by insurance that my wife had with her job at the time...
For the next 6 months, we had insurance that was pretty good with covering the medication (the suboxone pill form, this was back in 2008/2009.)

At the 6 month mark, another major hurdle was thrown into the mix....my wife's job shut-down. Like..there wasn't a "move here to continue with the company"...
The company went away....(economy downturn 2008). So insurance went away, WARN pay only lasted from December 2008 until March 2009)...
In March, I was faced with the problem again...paying full price for a medicine that was very expensive. My wife just lost her job, I had NO job...and we had no income...aside from the petty unemployment payments that barely made us realize we received any money at all...
So I had to decide...is being clean important...
It wasn't the first..or even the 2nd time I had been faced with that decision in just under 2 years. It was the 3rd time in less than a year that I had to choose between staying clean, or possibly relapsing and becoming the addict that I hated myself for being...
From paying $35/month for my 90 Suboxone 8mg pills, I went to paying $6.90/each, per pill for my medicine because insurance was gone. At that time I was paying $110 / month for the doctor visit..
I got to a point where I had to start buying my sub pills almost daily. I would sometimes buy 5 pills every 2-3 days...
I bought meds whenever I could come up with money.

I'm sorry, but financial problems ...I've been there. Choose between electricity + food and my sobriety. Choose between myself/staying clean and my family being able to eat...
Somehow, I managed to balance it out. I stayed clean. It was worth so much more than what I realized at the time, so I made it happen.
I can't really explain how the hell I managed to juggle life and my staying clean...it's been quite a while...but financial problems were paramount to us at the time..and I still stayed on path and kept my promise to myself that I would never be that person that I once was.
By the time I got clean, I had already sold + pawned + borrowed everything that I could fathom.
The only thing different between my sobriety and my active addiction was that I didn't do illegal things or steal to keep myself clean. I'm sure that the thoughts crossed my mind, because staying clean was that important to me...but somehow I made it through. I truly believe God saw fit to keep me alive and we were able to make it.
And now, I look back and it seems like decades ago when I had such a hard time...but it's hardly been 10 years...
In fact, it'll be 10 years in 2019...
But I've come so far in such a short time...
I'm not saying that my case is the worst possible. I wasn't homeless at any point....my home has always been here..and is the one thing I didn't sell/lose during addiction. I have a paid-for residence..and that's ALL I can say that I have from going through my addiction..
Tools, guns, vehicles, anything of value...I don't own..
I used to have some pretty nice tools..like power tools -drills, saws, etc.
I've just recently gotten back to having more than what I had before addiction got a hold on me...
Only in the last 2-3 years have I acquired more tools than what I had before I started pawning everything I owned.
All the tools I have now, I've already owned once before in life.
Guns are the same...
I have an AR15 rifle..which I never owned a high-power rifle before my addiction..but I did have a couple of pistols and shotgun..
Now I have a pistol for personal carry and my AR15 rifle..
And vehicles are plentiful once again for my yard..
I'm adding a 4th vehicle in a couple of weeks when I head to my dad's in Louisiana and pick up my brother's truck (the same brother in my signature that died )..
I'm in a position where I can help my dad and also purchase something that belonged to Adam...so I'm going to do just that.
Years ago, there wasn't even a way to get a loan for such things, let alone just take some of our savings for something ..(we had NO savings anyway...living worse than unemployment deposit to unemployment deposit).

There's always a way. Even though it may be the last resort, or it may cost more than what we are willing to sacrifice, the sacrifice becomes more and more worthwhile in the long-term. I learned the hard way that I had to pay for what I had done, and if that meant I had nothing, then so be it. If I had continued on the path I was on, I would've had less than nothing...and likely less than life itself...
Once I made myself realize that I had to began life again, just like starting out at 18 when I got on my own, except I was 29 and doing the starting over. It's hard to be independent and have to basically start from scratch after having 3 kids and being damn near 30 years old...
That pales in comparison to where I would be right now if I had given in to addiction..
I know my wife would be long gone.
That means my youngest daughter, Reagan, would not exist.

And I can't begin to imagine life without Reagan in it. It just doesn't seem like things would be right if she hadn't come along when she did. She was part of a saving grace that I was was given... I cherish that little girl more than she'll ever know, mostly because of the part she played in keeping me where I am in my clean part of life.

If the will and desire is there, then a person will tear down any boundaries in between the goal they set for themselves. But, you gotta have a certain amount of commitment and driving force.

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Adam Wayne P.
DOB: July 1, 1985
October 8, 2013

RIP little brother. Gone, but not forgotten.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:28 pm 
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so sorry about your financial problems. i totally understand. been there. done that. still digging my way out.
i'm glad you put your family first.

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Get your shit together and live your life." Black Snake Moan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:28 am 
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I agree with Jonathan, everyone has financial crisis situations but as you are paying for them, you may also figure out the way for getting pills....Hoping things will change positively for you


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