It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:05 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Glad I found this forum
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:16 pm 
Hi, I'm brand new here and I just posted for the first time in the "damn pharmacy/doctor section" I guess in many ways I'm a "typical" addict who took her first drink at 11 and smoked her first joint at 12 in the late '70's. I continued to use "recreational" drugs throughout jr. high, high school and college, and had my first real troulble at my first full-time job when I continued to get high on a daily basis (even before and during work) and not just at parties like my friends did. I voluntarily went to a 12 step "retreat" which I paid for with my own money so my insurance/employer wouldn't find out. I did atttend NA for a couple of years and collected my keychains, but I never really felt like I fit in because I felt like such a "mild" case compared to some of the hard core addicts, a couple of whom didn't hesitate to let me know that I didn't belong there. (There were many wonderful people there, too, so I'm not knocking NA).

Fast forward to 2003 when I had my second baby. They gave me percocet and I absolutely loved it. I had tried opiates in the past (even snorting heroin) but they didn't make a big impresssion on me when I was favoring other drugs. At the time I got the perc my Dad was dying and I was going through a lot and I just loved the way it made me feel. From then on I got painkillers as often as I could, from doctors, dentists, friends' medicine cabinets (I'm sure you know the drill). Then in 2006 my husband got in a motorcycle accident and they gave him tons of painkillers. That's when my addiction took off. I got what I could where and whenever I could, until the end when I could only (legally) get Ultram which I would bite or crush to release all of the tramadol at once. I know most people consider tramadol weak, but in addition to being a synthetic opiate, it affects neurotransmitters and acts as an antidepressant. When I finally decided to get clean I had horrible withdrawals coupled with severe depression. After many failed attempts at staying clean on my own I eventually found my way to Suboxone, which has been more of a blessing than I could ever have imagined. I have been on Sub for 5 months now.

I do constantly worry about how and when I should get off, and I feel l am taking a lot more than other people here, at 12mg/day. In fact, I just read junky__'s post about previously being on (I think) 30-40 bags of heroin a day and now being on 4mg of Sub. Am I taking way too much? Also, the only two people I know who have been on Sub went through a 12 week program and got off. One is totally clean and the other decided to go on methadone. I did go off of Sub on my own at one point, in part to see how bad it would be, and I ended up taking oxycodone in an attempt to get high. (Luckily I didn't really work, I think because Sub was still in my system). I know being on Sub is the safest place for me right now. My doc doesn't recommend therapy or support groups. I often think of returning to NA but back when I went there some members said being on anti-depressants wasn't even considered "clean" so I can only imagine how they will react to Sub.
I know this is extremely long winded, but it is so cathartic just to get it all out. I've been on another online addiction support group for quite some time, but the consensus seems to be about 90% against Sub, so I can't really discuss these issues there. So thank you all for listening... you are an inspiring group.
Gratefully,
Lilly


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Welcome
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:43 pm 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 10:02 am
Posts: 308
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Hi Lilly,
I am short on time .. I'm on my way to therapy. But I just wanted to say welcome and glad you found us!!!! Please feel free to post as often as you like.... I will have more to say later but for now Welcome and please get comfortable here you are among friends.....
Talk with you soon....

God Bless
TW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:45 pm 
Hi and welcome!! Your dose really depends on you. I had between a 20 and 60mg's a day methadone habit and i've been on 16mg's suboxone for 10 months now with no problems or relapse. This is most definitely a great place too vent frustration or ask questions. You can expect a rather quick response to any topic. I would write in further detail but im short on time at the moment. Have a great day being clean!! :D


Top
  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:44 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Welcome to the forum! Isn't it WONDERFUL to be able to discuss your suboxone topics with people who KNOW what the hell you are talking about?!? I love it. I am not too thrilled about NA either as I went for years when I was younger...much like you. My new doc is MAKING me go 2x per week so I am sure you will see me complaining very soon. I DO have an amazing therapist however and I wouldn't change that for the world. We talk about anything and everything and I think I grow far more there than in NA. Plus, I have no intent on quitting suboxone so NA is kind of a moot point since I have no desire to use on suboxone. I also have no intent to quit drinking ENTIRELY because I like a beer now and again. If you ever want to go off the suboxone, then I do think it is very important to secure a good support system, get into some 12 step group you can count on later, and probably find a therapist too.

I was on about 280mg of oxycontin when I got on the suboxone. I was on sub for 2 1/2 years and like you, was constantly thinking about how much I was taking...shouldn't I have tapered by now...when will I get off of this...I am just abusing the suboxone now since I don't want to go off of it.....blah blah blah. I got off cold turkey a few months ago. Note...I started on 24mg and got down to 12mg in 2 1/2 years but was never comfortable at 12mg. I had a crappy doc so I could never really talk with him.

If you look under stopping suboxone at My withdrawal story and mistakes you can kind of see where I have been the past few months.....(going grazy is where I have been). I got back on sub Monday this week and am at 8mg per day. I have no idea what my initial post was titled but Dr. Junig responded right away with some great advice and insight I clearly did not possess at the time. In my opinion, you shouldn't pressure yourself too much about the amount and getting off of it. Instead, focus on how you feel while on it. Is there anything that isn't quite right? Like anxiety. Do you ever think about taking extra sub doses? If so, why? Do you feel like you have addressed the depression aside from being on the sub? Are you ready to handle the depresson if you go off? If so, how? Do you have a support system? Is your spouse 100% supportive of you? Going off of it is HARD and I know I pressured myself to go off way too soon. I also pressured myself for ALL the wrong reasons. So just stop and think really hard and ask yourself WHY you want to get off of it. Do you actually WANT to go off or do you just expect yourself to be able to? Why? Just keep it about what is best for you and your health and not what is best for your ego or family or anything else.

Was it setmefree who had the great post about decision making? I can't remember. Anyhow, I am glad you are here and I hope we can help out a bit.

Take Care!
Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Thanks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:33 am 
Thanks for all of your kind replies. I was a little embarrassed after I posted all that yeterday. I guess it was a bit much for an introduction. Cherie, you asked a lot of good questions, like do I ever think about taking extra Sub doses. The answer is yes, and I sometimes do, because I think it will make me feel "better" even though it never does. The point being I sometimes feel like I'm using the Sub similarly to how I was using the drugs. Also, do I feel like I SHOULD be able to? I think that is the heart of the matter. I keep hearing that the longer you stay on the harder it is to get off. And part of me still says "you're not that bad", so I feel I should be getting off of it before I get myself into more trouble.
Thanks again for all your feedback
Lilly


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:46 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Lilly,

If you feel like taking extra doses and sometimes do, in my opinion, the key isn't going off of it before you get in trouble, the key is figuring out why you feel like taking extra doses and working on those issues until you stop taking extra doses and you KNOW what to do when you feel like taking an extra. The suboxone is only a tool so unless you develop other coping skills, when you go off and feel like taking something 24/7 for a month or two straight, it is likely you will use since you don't know what else to do. The suboxone isn't the problem. The addiction still is. It is so easy when you are on suboxone to start to feel like you aren't an addict. Don't let the suboxone fool you. You WON'T feel this good or normal or clear off of it. You WILL have cravings. I am not sure I buy into the idea that sub is harder to get off the longer you have been on except behaviorally. Most of us took drugs long enough to forget what it is like to be totally sober anyways. So the longer you have been on the sub, the more likely it is you have integrated new coping skills into your life and changed your behavioral patterns. It may be physically harder because it could be a bit shocking to be totally off any drug. BUT...it isn't the physical that is hard to kick. It is the psychological. If you weren't on sub very long then you certainly haven't really had the time to develop new skills and patterns. Physical could be easier, but your chances of relapse are much higher I am sure. (I don't have stats on this just speaking from my own experience and opinions).

I will have to find that other post on the decision making thing for you and I will send it to you in a message or post it here. I found it EXTREMELY helpful.

Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:52 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Who, Why, and Then What??


Hello everyone!

I have been super busy running around today but had this post in my head for the past few hours, so wanted to write it down while I have a pseudominute to sit My kids are eating dinner so nows as good of time as any! When my clients (again, I am a therapist) are facing an internal struggle, or the struggle is within me, I usually follow a 3 question sequence to guide them (or me) to the right answer. Who. Who cares? I don't say that in the sarcastic quip way that many teenagers answer with... I genuinely ask, WHO cares about the outcome? You? Family? Society? If you are battling with the decision to get off Suboxone as fast as you can, I urge you to think about this question first. If you do not know, give it some thought. The next question is WHY. Why are you struggling with this choice, whatever it may be. Is it a "pride thing"? Do you equate your choice to good person vs bad person? Strong person vs weak person? Again, if you do not know the answer to why, give it some thought. The last question is Then What? Whichever choice you make, what comes next. Assume you are dead set on getting off opiates completely... You are doing it because you care, and because you feel that you do not want to be dependent on a pill. OK, then what? Are you going to focus all of your mental energy on staying sober? If someone asked you what you are proud of in your life, is sobriety going to be it? Then What. Does your choice affect your future as much as you thought it did, or is it a feeling of being immoral and weak that is driving you? I took some time off because I had to turn inward before I could reach out. Being completely honest with myself along this line of questioning led me to my ultimate choice, to stay on subutex. Who? I answer to me and my husband and my children. Why? I have a very good, busy, fulfilling life, and do not feel I have the motivation or drive to devote myself to meetings etc... Then What? then I can put the topic of opiates behind me and continue to feel proud of myself with my business, my family, my charity, and my contribution to society with what I do. Regardless of where you are in your own personal learning process, do what you need to in the moment, but do it for the right reasons. I will never judge, never push my views on others and am a very good sounding board for people to learn themselves better. If I can do that for any of you, please reach out.

mw


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:09 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi Lilly,

You've received some awesome advice and thoughts from others here, so there isn't much I can add. I will say don't worry about long-winded postings! That's what we're here for.

Welcome to the forum and I hope you stick around. It's a GREAT group of people full of support and empathy.

Melissa

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:32 pm 
Yes Lilly, you have gotten some good advice here already. I hope you'll receive your responses and take them to heart as we have all been in your shoes and we can all relate to one another's struggles and are all here to help each other. So welcome and feel free to post often and be as long-winded as you want!!
As far as your inner conflict about how much Suboxone you are taking and how long you should stay on it - You are certainly not alone in that. One of the many wonderful things about this forum is the fact that we get to receive the benefit from the experiences of others. We have several people here who have posted their experiences in their attempts to discontinue Suboxone. While there are a few people who have successfully tapered off and maintained their sobriety afterward, there are more who have gotten off the Sub only to relapse in a short time. The doctor who started this site has had a long-standing request asking for anyone at all to contact him who has gotten off Suboxone and remained off full-agonist opiates for a year (I think it was a year, but may have been five.) As far as I know, he has gotten no feedback. What does that tell you? For most of us, discontinuing Suboxone equals almost certain relapse. Much the same way as those in abstinence-based recovery have an extremely low liklihood of maintaining sobriety for life unless they continue frequent 12-step meetings, service work, and literally revolve their life around recovery activities. So really, unless and until we have a very well-planned relapse prevention plan in place, we have no business attempting to get off Suboxone.
As far as dosing goes....everyone is different. Some people can do very well on just a low dose (2-4 mg/day) and others are much more stable at doses like yours of 12mg/day or more. You've only been on Sub for 5 months, so I don't think your dose is out of line at all. I've been on Suboxone for a little over 8 months and I have tried to approach dose reductions on an "as-indicated" basis. After I had been on it for several months, I began to feel some changes taking place so I reduced my dose. It's hard to explain, but I would feel different after dosing....not really a 'high' at all, but just a little bit of an opiate effect plus some headaches and a little nausea. I took those symptoms as kind of cues that maybe it was time to reduce my dose. Sure enough, after reducing I found that I felt better....less side effects and very minimal withdrawal symptoms with reducing to around 4mg/day. When I began to try to go lower than that, it got a little more difficult, so I just quit reducing for a while. My doctor is also real flexible on my dose, so I wasn't dealing with problems in that regard. I hate it when people's docs insist they taper when they're not ready. To me, that it just asking for trouble.
Anyway, just try to relax and keep working on your recovery and your life from all angles. Hopefully, if you do that, you will know when or if it's time to begin reducing your dose. From everything I've learned from others and from my own experiences, the slower you take it, the better you'll do with it. We just can't rush it. It took years to get in the messes we were in because of our addiction and it may take years to get better. I think we just have to learn to take things a day at a time.
Glad you are here and I hope you'll participate fully on the forum. It's helped a lot of us here so very much!


Top
  
 
   
 Post subject: quick hello
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:43 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 6:04 pm
Posts: 73
Good Morning!

I am the one who posted the decision making post Who, Why, Then What.. I am a therapist and often have a different approach to things,but I am truly honored that anyone would refer to my words as a source of knowledge -- thank you. I am also on a higher dosage - 10 mg. I have 2 children via c-section and a similar story to you, got really hooked when I got the percs after the birth. I have no plans on going off completely. I will write more later, but my kids are about to get up and I have to make coffee before they do! LOL! I will PM you or post more later today!

Best,
MW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:39 am 
For me, the part about getting off of it. I would rather be on suboxone and feel normal than be off suboxone thinking 24/7 about how too make myself feel normal.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Introspection
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:57 pm 
Wow -you guys are so thoughtful and helpful, thanks for all your advice. The quote from MW on "who", coupled with what setmefree said about Dr. Junig asking people to come back and report if they had been able to stay clean off of Sub, brings me to admit one of my prime (and stupid) motivations for wanted to go off. Someone from my other forum, advising against Sub (having never been on it himself), stated that no one ever got clean on Sub and then came back to report that they subsequently got off Sub. (i.e. they substituted one addiction for another). I replied that everyone is so against Sub on the forum that as soon as a person says they are going on it they get so much negative feedback that they wouldn't come back in any case. Since then, one person on the forum DID go on Sub for 12 weeks, got off painkillers and tapered off Sub and is doing well. So here I am feeling like I have to prove something to people I don't even know in real life, when the fact is that I stated clearly above that I will relapse if I go off Sub at this time. The proof being that when I did stop taking my Sub briefly I immediately "tried" oxycodone again. Believe it or not I'm an intellegent, well educated, normally logical person - and here I am being totally irrational. Like I have to get off Sub to prove sucess, when the fact is that now I have a good life without the highs and lows, the scamming, the counting pills, the sickness and the overall brain fog I experienced at the end of my active addiction. What I need to do, as some of you pointed out, is to get some therapy, get into a support group that is actually supportive, and work on my addiction: why I would get high right now if I weren't on Sub, why I wanted to get high when I was 12, and everything in between.
Thanks for the wake up call. I will keep coming back.
Lilly


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:50 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
I am glad we could be of help. Personally, I think they should make MWFlorida's post into a sticky and keep it at the top of the stopping suboxone forum. Or maybe make it into a more generic version and keep it there. Too many people have said it REALLY helped them in making a decision.

I am also glad you will be sticking around. I think you will be a positive addition to the forum.

Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group