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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Hi people,

I'm new here, just registered.
It's been almost 20 years my girl and me, we're on opioids.
And it's been about 5 years we're seriously trying to get off.

We were on methadone first, I'm still is, but she switched to SUB about 6 months ago.
I first thought this new partial agonist synthetic opioid with a ceiling effect was a god-send.
We all know what it's SUPPOSED to do.

But then I started researching and also observing in real life.
In short, its NOT working as advertised…

We were looking for something that is DIFFERENT from methadone, in the sense that
the latter is a LONG-LIFE opioid with horrible side affect, soul-snatching properties and virtually
impossible to withdraw from.
We hoped SUB is different.
It's not.
And I'm not just saying this out of the blue.
Subsux has a lot of interesting info…
Mindvox too.
There's a huge amount of info piling up lately in that sense.
And then,- I have eyes and a brain. My girl has eyes and a brain.
:)

Don't get me wrong.
I understand the benefits of harm-reduction approach, and without it I would most likely be dead.
But for now, it's very simple:
the government has created only one approach to opioid-addiction:
"You're on heroin/oxy/whatever? Ok. We don't believe you'll ever make it.
We don't believe you're even worth to try. There no hope for you.
So we'll give you a LEGAL opioid, that is MUCH, MUCH stronger and much more LONG-ACTING.
It's also IMPOSSIBLE to quit on the long term. Just stuff it in yourself for the rest of your life, and don't
do crime. Don't talk much, and even if you do, nobody cares. Take the drug until you die and don't forget
to pay for it."

???

Opioids have made us (my girl and me) a fraction of the Humans we used to be.
So we decided to quit, whatever it takes.
Right now, the only hope I see is Ibogaine.
Once again, don't get me wrong:
I'm new here and I understand that SUB helps a ton of people, and that harm-reduction has its
benefits. Often life-saving benefits.
I'm just expressing what goes on on our life today, where we are.
Please let me know what you think.

Wish you well

Sergey
(My girl's name is Mila, she'll write eventually if she wishes.)

Links edited out by Rule62


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:02 am 
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Hi Siberian (and Milan). I am curious; what are the primary obstacles you're having with Sub, and how long have you taken it? In my humble opinion, there are two kinds of people who take it: 1) people who became addicted to a self-destructive lifestyle to cope with psychological pain (or just enjoyed getting high on opioids and 2) people who found themselves addicted after being given opioids for underlying pain and they lost control. I'm sure there are subcategories, but I'm trying to call it as I see it (most of us belong to one of those groups, and neither is superior to the other). For me, I was 32 years old, had never had an addiction in my life, and was athletic, running and playing tennis. I was suddenly hit with fibromyalgia, and later told I had narrowing in the spinal canal (stenosis). I suffered for 7 years, unable to exercise, gaining 40 pounds and sunk deep into depression. I was given Lortab after a dental procedure and realized it alleviated much of my pain. Over the next 3 years, I found a shady doctor who prescribed hydrocodone 10/500 x 120 per month, but soon that wasn't enough and I began ordering additional bottles online. I lost the weight, began a rigorous exercise program and worked 2 jobs. I was taking 10-12 pills per day and feeling invincible when I noticed that my urine was dark brown, and my scleras (whites of the eyes) were turning yellow. I KNEW I'd damaged my liver, and an endocrinologist confirmed it (ALT, AST and bilirubin were sky high). I was scared and tossed the remaining pills in the trash, and watched the garbage truck drive away. I knew I only had a few hours before serious pain set in, so I stocked up on broth, green tea, distiller water and bland foods. My husband was away on business for a week, so I buckled down and suffered 5-6 days of nonstop agony. Even a month later, the depression, headaches and insomnia (while better) persisted. I white-knuckled every lousy day for about 6 months, and didn't want to live. At this point I relapsed, but it was worse: Oxycodone. I told myself that "I'll only take it as needed", but was popping 5-6 per day in no time. Friends and family said I was rude, combative and they didn't recognize me. Fortunately a boss recognized "the look" and recommended his sub doctor. That was almost 4 years ago. Since starting sub, my marriage is stable and loving. I work in a senior management position with a Fortune 500 company, have rebuilt my 401k, my savings, and attend a wonderful church in our community. I laugh, smile, and appreciate life again. Yes, there are times when going for my monthly visit is a hassle (and I hate parting with the money), but it's a small fraction of what I paid when on opioids. Because I have underlying pain, I know that I'm in the high-risk category for a relapse without sub. The ceiling affect means that one pill per day is all I need (I occasionally take ibuprofen and Ativan but only when absolutely necessary). If I could waive a magic wand and never need sub again, I'd do it...but the magic wand would have to eliminate the underlying pain as well. I look at sub as I do a blood pressure pill...something I must take daily to function. If you and Mila are having a bad reaction to it, perhaps you should ask for Subutex; I did. It's much less expensive, and works better (with fewer ingredients). I thank God every day that I have a way to control my pain without increasing my dosage (I've been on 6-8 mg per day for 2 years...I began at 24mg with another doctor whose clinic was shut down for unscrupulous actions). My current doctor is an internist who also checks my vitals, does basic blood work annually and actually cares. If you have a lousy, uncaring doctor who's strictly in it for the money, it can make things pretty miserable. Ideally, I'd like to get down to 2-4 mgs daily and stay there, and I'm moving in that direction. If you don't have any chronic, underlying pain issues, you CAN taper off this med...many have done so successfully. You are not trapped, and there are always options. I wish you both the best, and hope I haven't prattled on too long, but you began sub for a reason. If you want to reply, I'm curious to know what specific problems you're both having that makes you unhappy about taking it. There's a boat-load of help available on this board, and I hope you'll find the answers you seek. Be blessed :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:06 am 
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I'm sorry Sergey...u have been on it six months. For what it's worth, I felt A LOT better on Buprenorphine; I struggled while on the Suboxone myself. Just food for thought. Hugs


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1454
sibirianfox wrote:
I understand the benefits of harm-reduction approach, and without it I would most likely be dead.
But for now, it's very simple:
the government has created only one approach to opioid-addiction:
"You're on heroin/oxy/whatever? Ok. We don't believe you'll ever make it.
We don't believe you're even worth to try. There no hope for you.
So we'll give you a LEGAL opioid, that is MUCH, MUCH stronger and much more LONG-ACTING.
It's also IMPOSSIBLE to quit on the long term. Just stuff it in yourself for the rest of your life, and don't
do crime. Don't talk much, and even if you do, nobody cares. Take the drug until you die and don't forget to pay for it."

???


Hi Sergey,

Sorry your girlfriend hasn't had a good experience on suboxone. What dose does she take in a day? How often? Is she working on herself and her recovery at all, while on suboxone?

The snippet I quoted from your posts seems to be blaming the government for not coming up with a better way to fix you, is this accurate? If so, playing the blame game doesn't help you or your recovery and is still "sick thinking." You need to take responsibility for where you are and where you're going, it isn't on anyone else. The first approach by the government was cold turkey/ abstinence. That is still available, you know.. You can get off mdone & subs if you put your mind to it and actually do the work. It is not impossible. You just need to suck it up and stick to a taper. Once you realize that you won't spontaneously combust on a slightly lower dose, it's much easier to get through the day without fearing every little ache and pain. Once again, you're looking for an outside substance (Ibogaine) to fix you and I can assure you, that's not a given.

If you really want off all opiates, man up and do the work to get off them. Plenty of people do it. The excuses and blaming will drag you down.

Good luck-


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:16 pm
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NytViolet wrote:
Hi Siberian (and Milan). I am curious; what are the primary obstacles you're having with Sub, and how long have you taken it? In my humble opinion, there are two kinds of people who take it: 1) people who became addicted to a self-destructive lifestyle to cope with psychological pain (or just enjoyed getting high on opioids and 2) people who found themselves addicted after being given opioids for underlying pain and they lost control. I'm sure there are subcategories, but I'm trying to call it as I see it (most of us belong to one of those groups, and neither is superior to the other). For me, I was 32 years old, had never had an addiction in my life, and was athletic, running and playing tennis. I was suddenly hit with fibromyalgia, and later told I had narrowing in the spinal canal (stenosis). I suffered for 7 years, unable to exercise, gaining 40 pounds and sunk deep into depression. I was given Lortab after a dental procedure and realized it alleviated much of my pain. Over the next 3 years, I found a shady doctor who prescribed hydrocodone 10/500 x 120 per month, but soon that wasn't enough and I began ordering additional bottles online. I lost the weight, began a rigorous exercise program and worked 2 jobs. I was taking 10-12 pills per day and feeling invincible when I noticed that my urine was dark brown, and my scleras (whites of the eyes) were turning yellow. I KNEW I'd damaged my liver, and an endocrinologist confirmed it (ALT, AST and bilirubin were sky high). I was scared and tossed the remaining pills in the trash, and watched the garbage truck drive away. I knew I only had a few hours before serious pain set in, so I stocked up on broth, green tea, distiller water and bland foods. My husband was away on business for a week, so I buckled down and suffered 5-6 days of nonstop agony. Even a month later, the depression, headaches and insomnia (while better) persisted. I white-knuckled every lousy day for about 6 months, and didn't want to live. At this point I relapsed, but it was worse: Oxycodone. I told myself that "I'll only take it as needed", but was popping 5-6 per day in no time. Friends and family said I was rude, combative and they didn't recognize me. Fortunately a boss recognized "the look" and recommended his sub doctor. That was almost 4 years ago. Since starting sub, my marriage is stable and loving. I work in a senior management position with a Fortune 500 company, have rebuilt my 401k, my savings, and attend a wonderful church in our community. I laugh, smile, and appreciate life again. Yes, there are times when going for my monthly visit is a hassle (and I hate parting with the money), but it's a small fraction of what I paid when on opioids. Because I have underlying pain, I know that I'm in the high-risk category for a relapse without sub. The ceiling affect means that one pill per day is all I need (I occasionally take ibuprofen and Ativan but only when absolutely necessary). If I could waive a magic wand and never need sub again, I'd do it...but the magic wand would have to eliminate the underlying pain as well. I look at sub as I do a blood pressure pill...something I must take daily to function. If you and Mila are having a bad reaction to it, perhaps you should ask for Subutex; I did. It's much less expensive, and works better (with fewer ingredients). I thank God every day that I have a way to control my pain without increasing my dosage (I've been on 6-8 mg per day for 2 years...I began at 24mg with another doctor whose clinic was shut down for unscrupulous actions). My current doctor is an internist who also checks my vitals, does basic blood work annually and actually cares. If you have a lousy, uncaring doctor who's strictly in it for the money, it can make things pretty miserable. Ideally, I'd like to get down to 2-4 mgs daily and stay there, and I'm moving in that direction. If you don't have any chronic, underlying pain issues, you CAN taper off this med...many have done so successfully. You are not trapped, and there are always options. I wish you both the best, and hope I haven't prattled on too long, but you began sub for a reason. If you want to reply, I'm curious to know what specific problems you're both having that makes you unhappy about taking it. There's a boat-load of help available on this board, and I hope you'll find the answers you seek. Be blessed :)


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