It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:50 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:31 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1001
Hey guys kinda wanting some insight / assistance here. This isn't for me so much as a friend. At the height of my addiction I was using a gram of China white heroin a day. It was a decent habit, but it wasn't enough to make induction too much of a nightmare. I'm trying to help a friend get some of their life back, only they're using more like 2-3 grams of china a day. That's like over $1000 a day worth of heroin they're using. Once you get up to that level of dependence it can be harder to induce on Suboxone.

Has anyone here got experience in switching to Suboxone from heroin when you're running a large habit? Would it be more realistic to look at methadone? The only thing about methadone is that they'd be tied to a clinic, and only be able to get 2x take-aways a week. There's a reason they call it "liquid handcuffs". If you wanna make recovery worthwhile, you gotta be able to experience some freedom from doing it. And methadone ties you down too much for that IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:29 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:42 pm
Posts: 226
Location: Minneapolis
It's really tough to induce with levels of dependence like that. When I was at that level I tried to induce a few times and waiting 24 hours is nothing. I was using about that level of heroin on top of oxycodone and (though crushed) slow release morphine and I'm thinking that the facts that I was reduced to having to inject H into muscles combined with the morphine left me with a delayed detox effect. The problem was that at the 24 or even 36 hours I still had PWs upon induction and trying to get to the 24 or 36 hours was an almost impossible feat as I was used to experiencing severe WD at 4-8 hours. With that level of dependence I was never able to feel 'right' on buprenorphine quickly enough to make it happen. You know that anything beyond a few hours for an active junkie=no end in sight! So, for me it was really tough, I was convinced that I would have to go back to methadone because my habit was so huge. What ended up happening was that I wound up in an ICU followed by a locked hospital ward so I was medically titrated to a point that I was able to induce. That point was a 200mcg fentanyl patch and (I think) 2 hourly dilaudid 1mg shots. That was NOTHING to me at that time, I remember being pissed that that's ALL I was getting and having constant arguments with the Dr. and nurses. At that level I was able to do a regular 24 hour induction, actually I think it may have been closer to 48 hours to be safe because I was using a fentanyl patch properly. The bottom line for me was that to make it happen I had to be closely monitored in a professional medical setting with a huge tollerence like that. If hospitalization is an option for your friend, minus the overdose to get there, they may want to consider it! Short of that it's going to take a self-titration and some 'will power' or more likely confinement after that at the very least to make it doable.

T

_________________
TPN Service Companies
Travis Norton, LADC/LAC
540 Greenhaven Road #201|Anoka, MN 55303
(763)250.0702
http://www.facebook.com/TpnServiceCompanies
Person-centered counseling, education, advocacy, referral services and assessments.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:11 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey TJ,

I think it was Homer who had some suggestions about switching from high doses of H to Suboxone. If memory serves, he would start taking 1mg or 2mg of Suboxone while shooting H, he would continue this for a week or so, then up his Suboxone and eventually switch completely to Suboxone.

In theory, what he said made sense, but I think he was the only one who did it so there's not too much info on the subject.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:13 am 
I don't have much advice with herion to subs. Seriously though. Tell him take the subs while in sufficient withdraw. I can imagine he will still feel withdraw even with sub. Tell him that imagine the severity this kick would be without the subs. The best thing he can do is try to push through after being induced onto sub. He has to allow his body to drop in tolerance and adapt to the bupe. I cannot imagine how getting on subs and using on top of it... Then suddenly dropping the herion and trying to maintain on bupe. The goal is not to jack the tolerance even further by using bupe and smack.

In theory i can see how homers idea of using on bupe would work. But to my understanding is you need to allow your tolerance level iteslf to that of a bupe dose. I think this makes more sense then using while on bupe. It's risky and it's only going to spike the tolerance up further and further. And when he stops using the H. It will be back to square one with trying to allow his body to drop to that acceptable level of bupe. Hope this kinda helps.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:49 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
Hey I understand your outlook on methadone but the liquid handcuffs line is silly no matter, sub or meth you are tied down period. I think with your friends situation suboxone will not cut it he won't be able to make it through the proper induction period with that habit. I barely did myself and I was only using 300mg of oxy and 600 to 1200mcg of fentora. Also with this serious of habit he would be better off being in a much more monitored setting vs say hey here's a months worth of meds good luck. Just my input.

_________________
Yes these drugs saved our life's. But does that mean we have to give the rest of our life to these drugs?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group