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 Post subject: Getting Ready
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:04 pm 
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I went to the Doc this morning. I have a prescription for enough Suboxony Film to get me through next Wed with the ability to take 16 MG per day. Now I have to figure out how to get my obligations done so I can let myself go into withdrawal. This might sound crazy but I am a leader in a 12 step Recovery program. We meet on Friday nights. We have our monthly leadership meeting this Sunday. At this point knowone in the program knows what I am dealing with. Right now my plan is to finish my work obligations Friday by noon. I am going to get someone to fill in for me on Friday night. I will take my last pill Friday afternoon at noon. My goal is to make it until Saturday evening around five to start taking the Sub. That will give me about 17 hours of withdrawal time. I hope the Sub works well enough to attend my meeting Sunday!! Gosh typing this out makes me realize the insanity I have created once again in my life due to Drug Abuse. Its to bad I cant take a few days off from life to work on this but unfortunately that was the choice I made!! Thanks, Moto


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:19 pm 
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Remember, it's the severity of the withdrawal that should be your key indicator as to when to take that first dose of suboxone. Although, for short acting opiates, 17 hours "should" be enough. I waited 24 hours and within 1/2 hour to 45 minutes of taking the suboxone I was good to go. You should have no problem keeping your commitment for Sunday.

Just checking your math...Friday at noon to Saturday afternoon is over 24 hours. Unless I'm reading it wrong?

Good luck and please let us know how it goes!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Thanks Romeo, Thats how bad my brain is fogged. Im glad you did the math. I fel better now. That should give me 28 to 29 hours. Hopefully I feel like complete crap at that point. My Doctors suggestion was to take 4 mg to start and wait 1 to 2 hours and see how I feel. I can increase up to 16 mg. Should I only increase every 2 hours until I feel comfortable? I think the trick is to get by on as little as needed. That is my goal. Thank You, Moto


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:01 pm 
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That plan sounds very reasonable to me.

FYI, I went from OxyContin then to Hydrocodone. Stayed on the Hydrocodone for maybe a week then did my induction. I inducted at 8mg and absolutely did not need any more sub. 8mg got me straight right quick. Actually, I remember telling my wife that it was probably too much.

Please follow your doctors instructions. Start at 4mg and see how it goes. You can always up your dose if you need to.

When the Suboxone starts working your going to be like :shock: ...why did I wait so long to get on Suboxone. I know i did!!

I'll be looking for some posts from you. If you're having any trouble with your withdrawal and you feel up to it, send a post or two up. It'll help pass the time until Saturday afternoon.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Romeo, If im not mistaken i believe i read in one of your post's that you are off the sub now. Is that correct? If so that gives me alot of encouragement as that is my goal. Thanks For the help!! Moto


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:40 am 
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Yeah, I quit sub June 4th/2010.

I had a 10 year pain pill habit, mostly Hydrocodone and OxyContin. Finally, I heard about Suboxone and started taking it, through a doctor, within weeks of finding out about sub. It saved my sorry ass.

I stayed on suboxone for three years. I did a lot of work with an addiction counselor during this time too. It's amazing how we fool ourselves and how our brain hides some of our detrimental behaviors from us. I was blown away with a lot of the behaviors I exhibited everyday that were addictive or obsessive in nature and I had no conscious clue what I was doing. Working with my counselor gave me the best shot possible to stay clean while on suboxone and to stay clean when it came to stopping sub. Suboxone gives you the chance to stop focusing on getting high and get your life together.

I would encourage you not to be concerned about stopping suboxone, get on it and let it do it's job for a good while. Everyone's recovery time is different. Don't set a limit on how long your going to take suboxone...let your mind and body tell you as you move forward through your recovery what to do.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:21 am 
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I don't have too much to add to what Romeo said. You might want to Google the COWS worksheet. It will help you to determine the state of your withdrawals. Like Romeo said, it's not how many hours you've been withdrawing, but the severity of the withdrawals.

You should be OK to take more sub after about 2 hours. You want to take enough to get those opiate receptors saturated and to quell your cravings. You can always get to a lower dose later, as it's not unusual to start off at a higher dose. Don't be too concerned too soon about getting down to the lowest possible dose right away.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:45 pm 
Welcome to the forum Moto. You've gotten great feedback already. I guess I just have a couple questions and a few things for you to think about as well.
I don't think you mentioned what drug you've been abusing other than to say you would be taking your last "pill" on Friday. The reason that it may be significant is because of the difference in the half-life of an immedicate-acting opiate (like hydrocodone or oxycodone) versus something with a sustained release property to it (like oxycontin or basically any opiate with "extended release" in the name.) The COWS scale that Hatmaker suggested should be your guide regardless. However, I would bear in mind that if you've been taking an extended release opiate, it might take a bit longer for you to be in the appropriate stage of w/d to start your Suboxone. Again, as the others have said, it's not really about hours since your last dose, but all about what's going on with your w/d symptoms. The COWS scale will make it fairly easy for you, although I've always felt it is best to be induced in the doctor's office so that the healthcare provider can assess you accurately, because I feel some of the parameters can be somewhat subjective. In any case, that's not the way it's going to go down for you and that's okay. Lots and lots of doctors do it that way.....send patients home to induce on their own and everything goes just fine.
I'm curious too about your involvement in the 12-step program. It sounds like you've been involved for a while as you serve in a leadership role. I wonder if what's going on with you now is a relapse or if perhaps you're a recovering alcoholic who has now found himself with a different addiction. I guess I'd just be quite interested in learning more about your history. If you've already posted it somewhere else on the forum, I apologize.....maybe you can reply and direct me to it. Part of my curiousity comes from having just gone through a relapse myself and knowing the measures I had taken towards my own recovery and the fact that despite all of that, I still slipped up. I know that a pretty big principle of the 12-steps is 'rigorous honesty.' I would imagine this has been very difficult for you. I'm glad you found this forum and want you to know that you should be able to come here and expect tolerance and acceptance and a feeling that you can be honest with us no matter what. Most everyone here is here to help others and receive help ourselves.
To offer some reassurance as with your other replies....My experience with starting Suboxone was just wonderful! I had been taking short-acting opiates and probably hadn't taken any for a little less than 24 hours. I was at the stage of w/d in which my nose was running, I was shakey, having some mild sweats, had restless legs and aching legs and maybe a few other mild symptoms. I was NOT in anything near severe w/d. To my knowledge there is no need to go so long as to be in great suffering stages of w/d. My doctor started me with 4mg also and dosed my again an hour later with another 4mg because after the first 4mg I still wasn't feeling too hot. Let me tell you, after that second dose, within about 45 minutes, I was in terrific shape! Good to go! Didn't miss a beat that day or any of the days that followed. I felt better than I had in years! No 'high' whatsoever, although some patients do report a bit of a 'high' feeling with their first few doses. I just felt normal....like my old self and it was great! So try not to worry....once you've been induced onto the medication, you should be able to fulfill any obligations you may have.
I also wanted to echo the advice to not focus on quickly getting off Suboxone. For most of us it took a number of years to get this point in our addiction to seek help with medication-assisted recovery. It's going to take a good while to get better. I'm sure that you're being a 12-stepper will help you, but the medication does A LOT. I realized that the hard way. After being on Sub for 17 months and never completing my taper but getting down to a very low dose, I relapsed. It happened fast and was almost like I was outside myself when it happened! It was very short-lived and I quickly realized how much I need a therapeutic dose of Suboxone to keep me stable. I had been focused from the beginning of my treatment on the certainty that I would not stay on it forever. Although I would say it wasn't that big of a deal.....deep inside, it was very important to me to get my dose down as low as possible quickly and get off the drug as soon as I could. Don't do that to yourself. I'm not suggesting to just resign yourself to staying on it forever, although many people do and they're very content and sure in that decision. I still hope to try again to taper and discontinue eventually. But it takes time, often longer than we would like.
I've gone and written another novel.....my apologies! I'm happy to hear that another addict has chosen this path. This medication can help you immensely! Please keep us posted on how everything goes!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:41 pm 
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Thanks Setmefree and everyone else on this site. The drug i was mainly using was Oxycodone 5-325. I also would occaisionally use Vicodin, Dilotin, & Tramadol. I was using about 10 pills a day. I would take 5 to 7 and crush and snort the other 3 to 5. I would definately say I was in relapse. My drug of choice prior to the Opiates was Methamphetamine. I am almost 8 years clean from that Drug. I had never used pain meds before so in that sense it is not a relapse. But mentally and the way i was using i was definately in relapse mode. I was in a dirt bike crash 2 1/2 years ago and that is when my nightmare began. I have not been honest with leadership in my 12 step group. A few trusted individuals and my wife know what is happening. I am not working my program by doing this. I know if I come clean with everyone I will be asked to step down from leadership and my clean time will start over. Like any good addict I am operating on fear and pride and dont want to share this "yet" I am very glad I have stayed off the Meth but now have found another "Drug of Choice" The good thing is due to my time in recovery i have identified this problem and realize if i keep lying to myself it is going to steal everything away in my life the same way Meth did 10 years ago. I know what to do but it is now up to me to take the first step. Yes, I still am a lier, a cheat, and a thief. The thing with the opiates that i have never experienced before is the physical addiction aspect of this drug. I have never experienced withdrawals like this. Therefor I have not been able to stay off the drug and keep working and hiding from the world. I am praying that the Sub will be the bridge i need to cross the gap and get back to where i have been before. The good news is I have been here before and i know it gets better. My meth addiction cost me a 12 year buisness relationship and i can see this drug taking my current buisness away from me. Its hard to imagine as "Setmefree" described that after years of abuse that the Sub can make you feel so much better after 2 doses 45 minutes apart, But it is my hope and prayer i will be somewhere in their as well. Thanks for all your support i will let you know tomorrow how the withdrawals are going and how my first dose of Sub goes. I am Hopeful and exited on one hand and scared to death on the other. I am admitting my powerlessness over drugs and am now asking God to help me fight this next attack on my life. Peace, Moto


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:52 pm 
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Hey moto,

The reason suboxone works so well is because it's an opiate too. It's a partial agonist where the oxy's are full agonists. The oxy's hit your mu receptor and deliver like 10,000 volts. The suboxone hits those same receptors but only delivers like 1 or 2 volts. That's obviously not a medical definition of exactly what's going on, but you get the idea.

Because the vast majority of people do not get high while on the sub, it makes it possible to taper off the sub? Make sense? Imagine trying to taper off the oxy's....very, very hard because your chasing that high. With sub there is no high, easier to taper.

There will usually be some withdrawal when you quit sub, but because you can taper so low the wd is minimized.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:49 pm 
Hey Moto....Thank you for sharing more about what's been going on with you. It is very hard to be honest. That's why so many of us find this forum to be so helpful....a place to be able to come and share, just whatever! I think there's a part of all of us addicts that is scared that we are somehow 'worse' than someone else or whatever. But the truth is....we all have this one thing in common....addiction. We know how 'we' think, we know what we tell ourselves, what our addiction drives us to do, etc. Anyway, I appreciate your answering the questions I asked.
I know it's hard to believe that it's possible to have a medication introduced into your body that will almost immediately change everything! But it's true. No, it doesn't fix everything, of course. But you'll be well on your way. The issue that concerns me a little bit for you, being so involved in the 12-step family, is that you might be treated unfairly for using Suboxone. As Romeo just told you, buprenorphine is an opiate, BUT it is a partial agonist....not at all like what you've been abusing. Nonetheless, some people feel that because it is an 'opiate', you're still 'using.' It's BS and you've got to dig your heels in and let that crap roll off. We beat ourselves up enough already! It's just a medication that helps us recover....a LOT! So try not to fall into that mindset that you're doing something wrong by choosing this route. And, personally, I don't share my Suboxone use with anyone whom I know or don't believe will be 100% supportive. It's just not worth it....to me. But that is an issue you will have to come to terms with within yourself.
Another thing...knowledge is power. Do research on buprenorphine (from reliable sources, not just online forums) so that you will know exactly what this drug is, how it works, etc. so that you'll be armed with accurate information should the need to explain to loved ones arise. Don't let anyone (or yourself) get too hung up on the fact that it's an opiate. It is SO not like full-agonists!
As far as what you said about opiates being so horrendous to get off of.......You are soooo right on! I don't think any of us would have EVER gone down this road had we known what w/d was like! It's the worst! Granted, I've never done any other drugs, but, holy cow, the physical and mental w/d symptoms of opiates are torture....barbaric torture!! They say it won't kill you, but you'll wish it would at times! That's the truth! So, feel no shame in getting this help. I don't think you'll regret it. You know you have to do something....nothing else has worked.....so go for it!
I hope the early w/d isn't too bad for you before you start your Sub. Let us know! And hang in there!


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