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 Post subject: Getting pretty low!
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:22 pm 
Well guys....I'm getting there! Actually faster than I realized! This is kind of funny. You know, I've never been very precise about measuring doses. It looks like I've really been taking more like 1mg/day for the past couple of weeks rather than the 1.5 I thought I was taking. Before when I was taking 2-3mg/day, I would break an 8mg tab in half and then break it again....not exactly in half and take the bigger half some days and the smaller half on other days. And sometimes over my course of treatment (10+ months) I would break off a little piece of Sub and take it in the evenings. So.....I ended up with a pill bottle with varying sizes of Sub in them, and I kind of divided those into 2 bottles, one with the 'bigger' pieces and the other with the 'smaller.' I figured the bigger ones were around 1.5 - 2mg and the others were probably 1mg or so.
I decided the other day to cut up some new doses and be a bit more precise about it. When doing so, I realized that I've been taking my doses from the bottle with the smaller pieces in it. So instead of having dropped from 2mg/day to ~1.5, I've actually dropped from 2mg to more like 1mg/day! Granted that doesn't sound like that big of deal. But I bet it does to anyone who's gotten under 2mg/day. The thing is.....it hasn't been that bad. I've had some days of feeling pretty sluggish, but that's not really a new thing. I've gone through those phases throughout. I've had some leg aches and I've had some sneezing and watery eyes. But over all....nothing huge. Probably the biggest clue of w/d was that I awakened at around 4 a.m. for several days in a row and could not go back to sleep. I didn't immediately jump to it being because of w/d. But I know it was because on the third morning it happened, I decided to do a 'test.' I took a tiny piece of Sub and after about 30 minutes....voila....feeling good and fell back asleep!
I guess what I'm getting at is that it hasn't been too bad. Now I know, I've got a long way to go. But, hey, 1mg/day give or take a few micrograms, is pretty good. I did do the a better job with my pill cutting so I should be able to be more precise with my dosing now. But honestly, I don't feel like it's that big of a deal. I just kind of want to know where I'm at. I figure I'll stick here at 1mg for a while longer since I've now stabilized out at this dose. Whatever 'stable' is, that is!
Just wanted to let others who might be interested know that while it's not been a walk in the park under 4mg/day, it also hasn't been horrendous either. It's mostly all psychological.....that feeling of being in kind of a mild PAWS state off and on while tapering. Maybe, as I said, I'll stick at 1mg/day for several weeks to see if that gets better. Not that it's unbearable....just not very fun.
Anyway...that's an update. Everyone keep sending positive thoughts my way! Oh and as for cravings.....minimal. Actually less than what I seemed to have a while back. Seems like for me, this is all kind of a journey with lots of turns and hills and valleys. Just gotta hang on and keep moving! Thanks for everyone's support!


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:33 pm 
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setmefree, I'm so glad you're doing well. You sound great! And it's so nice to again hear of someone who is tapering and doing fine (for the most part) to counteract those other hellish rumors and such from the anti-sub crowd.
I'm really proud of you. You've done a lot of work on your recovery and I have confidence that you'll continue to do fine throughout the rest of your taper and when you're off the subs as well. You're an inspiration to so many.

Thanks for letting us know where you're at. Keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:04 pm 
Thanks for the kind words. I realize that I may sound casual in my approach to tapering compared to some others who are so methodical and precise with it. I don't think either is right or wrong or better or worse. And my approach may certainly change as I go along. It may become necessary to switch to the liquid method to make the dose reductions more exact. My doctor took some time and got himself tapered and off Sub by just taking smaller and smaller pieces of Sub and spreading out his dosing times further and further apart. He told me the last time I was in that because I was down to 2mg/day at that point, that it should be no problem to finish the rest of the taper without difficulty. He also said that I shouldn't need any comfort meds if I take my time. Okay.....I'm not sure it's going to be as simple as that. But he's done it himself. So I can give it a try. As I've said a hundred times.....I don't really care how long it takes. At this point I'm on such a low dose that if an emergency arose, the bupe shouldn't be that big of a problem. My bank account likes it a lot that I'm not needing as much medication. And.....my doc said I don't even need to go back in unless I decide I need to stay on Sub for more than another three months. He said he'll 'hold my spot' for three months. I figure by that time I'll have a good idea of whether I'm going to do okay finishing tapering or whether I'll need to go back in and stay on bupe.
I just read something Dr. Junig wrote about coming off Suboxone that really spoke to me and rang true to me. He said something to the effect of......how much better things are now that we have bupe.....that we can try coming off it and see if we can 'do' abstinence-based recovery successfully.....and if not, bupe is still there and we can go back to it. Not that I want to go off and think I'll have to go right back on. But just knowing that it's there. That I do not have to go through what I went through before....months and months of misery. It just isn't necessary. To me....that's a beautiful thing!


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:19 pm 
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You know something? I really think all of the horror stories that get posted on line about coming off suboxone are not too surprising.....what I mean is this: People are going to be MUCH more inclined to go online and SCREAM about their HORRIFIC experience with something, than they are to go online and write something good. If they are going through a traumatic experience, they will likely want to post about it, maybe get some support, or more importantly, some commiseration, some understanding, from people who have been through something similar. I think it's less common to find people talking about it in a positive light, or at least the ones who DO discuss it in a positive light are not going to be screaming about it at the top of their lungs, as in ZOMG!!! SUBOXONE SUXXX!!!! I HATE IT and IT KILLS KITTENS AND STUFF!!! :roll:


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 Post subject: Way to go!
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Hi there,

Wow, you are doing awesome. Thanks so much for posting you taper and how you are doing. As you well know there are so many horror stories out there about how difficult it is to get off sub, that every time I read about a taper like yours, it's almost like I can breathe again! I think a lot of people stay away from sub because of these horror stories, when it could be saving their life. I know sub has saved my life, literally, and I was one of those people that did not want anything to do with it because of what i read on another forum. At the very most I was going to do a fast taper! Then it got to the point that I could not stop, and I knew that a fast taper would leave me right back where I started. I thought I would at least give it a chance, and I am so happy that I did. So, again thank you, you really have been such an inspiration to me.

One question though, is there a reason why you are tapering off sub? Do you think you should? Are you looking at getting your nursing license back? Is it the side effects? Just wondering. I'm not sure if it is a good idea for me to ever be off sub, so just wondering why YOU think you should taper off.

Anyway, again, I'm happy to hear that you are doing so well. Please keep writing and letting us know how your taper is going. You have no idea how much it means to me to hear about another success story. You really are an inspiration!

Take care,
Ginger


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 Post subject: Think ahead
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:19 pm 
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It's great to hear that you are down to 1mg! I wanted to add in for other readers that you let all of us here know multiple months ago that the last time you got under 2 or 3 mg you ran into some craving problems and returned to 4mg. I am pointing that out only because it does not seem to be happening now – not to take some sort of shot at you. Why the difference now? Who knows? It may be the taper speed, other things going on in your life, the phase of the moon (I'm kidding). I just point it out because even though the first try proved problematic, this time seems to be going much better. I think that is some valuable information.

I did want to make a suggestion. It's great that your doc will hold your slot for three months. I agree that you should be able to make a decision whether or not you'll be able to taper off. Unfortunately, I'm not so sure that will be enough time to really be able to tell. As others who have stopped Bup have found, it is sometimes not until a couple months after the very final Bup administration that someone flirts with a relapse or has rebouts with PAWS and needs to get back on. I don't know what the answer to this is for you. However, I would encourage you to consider it. Perhaps you can have a couple month supply of Bup at the ready should you need it? Perhaps you can get your doc to agree to place you at the top of the waiting list if he indeed does fill your spot in the 100. It just seems like everything takes so long and you really do have to plan ahead. I fully think you can do this and will come out the other side just fine. I would just hate to have you exhaust your supply of Bup and have your doc full at 100 and THEN you find that you need to go back on Bup. That would mean having to find a new doc and get a new supply. It's just so risky that what could happen is a "real" opiate could end up being your only recourse.

I hope that made sense. If not, in simple terms, I’m suggesting that you have a “Plan B” ready to go. 1) Have some Bup available should it be needed (have a safe person hold it for you if needed). 2) Have a plan to get back to your doc or to another doc should there be a problem six months from now.

Most of all, I hope you will still be here with all of us should you move forward and actually be able to stop. Your presence and commentary are extremely valuable! WOW!!!! One Milligram. That is awesome!


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:18 pm 
Thanks for the replies everyone! In answer to a few of the questions and/or thoughts shared....
Why the taper and desire to come off the Suboxone? Well, that was really my initial plan when I started it. At first, I thought maybe 6 months would be enough. I learned that it definitely was not enough time on the medication. It has now been a little over 10 months. I've always felt that I might have a better chance of success in sobriety even after Suboxone, because I didn't become addicted to anything until I was 40 years old. I know (or knew) how to live and cope with life and stress without using mind or mood-altering substances before all this happened. So I figured I might have a better shot at it than, say a person who's been addicted to something since the teen years and never learned how to live without getting 'high' or 'altered' in some way.
While I haven't had a big list of complaints or side effects while on bupe, I have had a few. At higher doses (over 8mg) I had weird dreams and some muscle or joint stiffness and aches. Those went away once I got on a lesser dose. All along, I have struggled with feeling tired/sleepy a lot even when well-rested. I have definitely noticed some issues with my memory. And I've definitely had some sexual side effects. I've also felt that I sometimes am just not quite 'myself' with regard to the way I experience my feelings or emotions. I do not attribute these effects necessarily to buprenorphine, but more to opiates in general....the ones I was addicted to, and it's just kind of a carry over with the bupe.
Another thing is the expense.....While I know some people have it worse, my doctor requires monthly visits at $200 a pop, cash or credit card only and the meds are all out-of-pocket. My precious parents have been covering these expenses for reasons I'll not go into now. But in any case, although my parents don't complain, I feel guilty about the costs involved.
I also would like to not have this medication and treatment 'on the record' of my healthcare permanently as we have no group health insurance or life insurance plan and likely never will again. It's not a good feeling at my age to know that you're virtually uninsurable or at the very least, will pay inordinately high premiums, if you come clean about your history when applying for insurance.
But I guess more than anything else, I just want to see if I can do it......if I can go back (while knowing I'll never be exactly the same again) to how I was before......strong and secure and willfull, able to make it through stuff without being dependent on anything. Hopefully you all know me well enough to know that that is not a jab at anyone who decides to take this medication for life. I may, in fact, decide ultimately that that is what I need to do. But I just want to try.
At this point I have no plans to try to get my nursing license back. There are so many hoops I'd have to jump through that it's not even funny. However, it's not even in the realm of possibility as long as I'm on Suboxone. So being off of it would be one less hurdle to jump if I should ever decide to pursue it.
As far as why the cravings hit so hard at around 4mg/day and not as hard at this point....I really don't know. Unless it was just that I somehow wasn't 'ready' to be on that low a dose before and now I'm more ready for it. I really don't feel pushed or hurried in any way. I always wanted to be at a lower dose because of expense and side effects and emergency risks and now I'm there, so maybe I just don't feel pressure to somehow prove I'll be okay at the lower doses. I just don't know or understand completely the answer to that. I'm just taking it as it comes and if the cravings come back in an unbearable way, I'll have to make whatever adjustments are necessary.
As far as med supply. I still have an untouched bottle of #60 8mg tabs. I've taken half a tab or less for so long now that I've got quite a surplus on hand! My doctor always wrote for more than I needed so I'd always have plenty. Now, were those full-agonists and I ran into problems those 60 pills wouldn't last 2 weeks.....but being that it's bupe, that is enough for 4 more months even at taking 4mg/day! Plus I've still got probably 50 little pieces of 1-2mg sections of tablets on top of that! So I've got plenty of 'insurance' in case I end up needing to get back on after some time off.
Essentially, it's just a trial for me. I'm approaching the taper and potential disontinuation fairly casually. I really think it will be at least 2-3 more months before I'm done, if I decide that's indeed the route for me to take. I've been through an intensive outpatient treatment program and aftercare. I have a pretty good education now about addiction and recovery. I have a support system with good accountability in place. I have gotten my spiritual life back on track and continue to grow in that regard. I am pretty healthy and my life is certainly not real stressful right now in terms of work responsibilities and such. So I'm thinking I might be ready to give it a shot. But certainly, as donh mentioned, there is a Plan B which would be to go back to Suboxone if the need arises. And I would not see that as a failure or a weakness. This is just something I'd like to try. The others who have posted on the forum about their successes have really encouraged me that it is possible to do this.
I'm so glad to have you guys here. I know that if I'm able to continue on tapering that you'll cheer me on. And conversely, if I run into issues and decide to stay on, you'll back me up there also. It's really not nearly as much about the meds.....how much or how little, how long or how short your time on bupe is.....it's about recovery. Staying off the crap that got us here in the first place, right?! So whatever it takes is whatever it takes!
Hopefully (since that was sooo long) that answered some of the questions. I'll keep letting you know how it goes. For now....I'm thinking 1mg/day sounds good for a while longer.


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:21 pm 
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SetMeFree,

!!!!Great News!!!! Don't you love it when you've "accidentally been taking less?" That would NEVER happen on full agonists. I bet you were grinning ear to ear when you figured that out, huh?? So glad it is working out for you.

The WD symptoms you described sounded very mild and exactly like the severity of symptoms I felt during my taper, but only at larger decreases (30% dose reductions). When I did decreases of 10-15% I hardly felt anything at all. I kept waiting for Death to knock at my door, but it always turned out to be uneventful. In comparison, my jump was even milder, almost unnoticeable. I just started feeling better every day. It was weird.

I highly recommend you try the liquid conversion method, as it becomes difficult at lower milligrams to measure accurate doses by crushing up the tablets. If you go slow enough, it will be easy. After each decrease, once I felt totally normal (takes a few days), I decreased again. I also found that I slept better when I dosed twice a day.

We are all here for you if you need any support. I am glad you have discovered how much easier it is to do a slow taper. I promise it will continue to amaze you!! Just be patient... You're doing great!!

AM


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:16 pm 
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First of all, again I want you to know what an inspiration you are. It is so awesome to hear how well you are doing with your taper. After reading so many horror stories on "the other site" before I discovered this site, I have to admit I am so relieved to hear that it really is not so bad, as long as you are ready and take your time.

One thing I have read over and over in the successful tapers, is how important it is to listen to your body. I wasn't even sure what that meant until I myself tapered only a little, because I was feeling a little more stable and had seriously started working on my recovery. I joined a group called Celebrate Recovery at my local church. It's a small group of about 13 regular people and they have been monumental in my own recovery. I know that I can call any one of them any time and they will talk, or listen, or give advice, what I need. Anyway, the last few weeks I have been feeling a little better, and dropped my dose a little and didn't even notice a difference. Mind you, I only went from 12mg to 8mg, but it was painless, and I feel very relieved. I have no plans of getting off sub, will just see how it goes.

So, I'm thinking the first time you dropped below 4mg and experienced some difficulty, your body just wasn't ready yet. Honestly again I don't even know what that means but it seems to be what works. Regardless, you are doing well for probably several different reasons, and possibly most important because you are not feel any pressure to taper and are doing it slowly and when you feel ready. I have learned so much from reading about your taper.

One more question, (and I'm sorry the last time I said one question, I actually asked about 6 different things! lol), how is your husband coping with all that you have gone through. Has he been supportive? Have you been to any therapy together? If this is too personal, that is fine. I was just wondering because my husband has been okay, but he really doesn't want to discuss it. he thinks it's just a will thing, a mind over matter, and can't figure out why I can't just stop taking opiates when it obviously has so many negative side effects. he knows I'm on sub, but doesn't really know what it is, just that it is helping. He never asks me how I'm doing, or anything to do with addiction. He has no idea how much this has affected our relationship. I've told him so many lies, and have been honest with him since I have been on sub. He just says what's done is done and leaves it at that. it's not even open for discussion. So, I was just wondering how you and your husband were handling this and if you have any ideas to get my husband more involved.

I am really proud of you and how you have dealt with your recovery. I really hope that some day you can put this all behind you. Maybe with your nursing background and your knowledge about addiction, and sub maintenance, you could open your own Recovery Center.

So, please keep posting about your taper journey. Even if you hit a roadblock at some point, please post about it. Everyone behind you only learns form these experiences, and also want to be able to support you when you have been such an awesome support to so many people here!

Take care,
Ginger


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:36 pm 
Thanks AM and Ginger for the encouraging comments. Yes, it sure did bring a grin to my face when I realized I had been taking less than I actually thought I was! I do have not have unrealistic expectations about the remainder of my tapering, however. I know that 1mg is still a LOT when it comes to buprenorphine. This is such an interesting drug, especially in terms of dosing and how differently we can all react to differing doses. One thing that seems key is that the body or brain or whatever seems to truly 'adjust' to whatever dose we give it regularly, if that makes any sense! For instance, during my tapering over these past several months, at times I would feel kind of poorly and take some extra. Well, several times that really messed me up....made me feel nauseous and gave me a bad headache and made me feel kind of foggy or something even into the following day. On the other hand, with dose reductions, sometimes it would take up to an entire week for those drops to catch up with me. For instance, I would have gotten to the point of thinking I wasn't going to feel the drop, then all of the sudden I'd have a day in which I'd have watery eyes or aching legs or something relatively minor like that. It's just real interesting. And I imagine everyone is different, as well, in how they respond to dose adjustments. In any case, I know that I still have a ways to go if I decide to go all the way and get off bupe. And I suspect Annemarie and the others are right....about the only way to get low enough, precisely enough will be to switch to the liquid method. I still think I'll stick at the 1ish mg/day for a while to insure that I don't crash and burn by going to fast. I'd like to give my body plenty of time to normalize at this level.
As to the husband/marriage issue that Ginger asked about. Well.....that's a really long story. In short, he has a history of substance abuse as well, not opiates, but alcohol and other drugs. This was many years ago in the early years of our relationship and it was a real rough time as he was not a 'happy' under-the-influence type. Anyway, very long story. Suffice it to say.....the man owed me big time for the Hell he put me through during those years! Plus, if anyone should understand all this, it's him. When I was first 'caught' and outed for the opiate addict I had become, his initial reaction was one of complete shock. He said.."Of all the people in this world, I would never have thought this could happen to you." He was pretty kind and supportive during those first months as I struggled with abstinence-based recovery and the Peer Assistance Program I was working to keep my nursing license. After several months of that, I guess he grew weary of it all. Although it wasn't full-blown, I had relapsed and taken an occasional dose of hydrocodone (several of which he actually supplied me with) and I had come to the decision that I needed to try Suboxone. He didn't fight me on the idea initially. Rather, after I was stable and happy on the Suboxone after having been on it for a few weeks, he did a complete 180 on me. I posted about it somewhere on the forum (amongst my hundreds of posts...lol) Anyway, he really unloaded on me. He was angry and resentful and fed up. It was as if he was reacting at that time the way I had expected him to react when my addiction first came to light. It was a horrendous time. On the one hand, I couldn't blame him for the way he felt. But on the other hand, when I really needed him...he wasn't going to be there. It finally kind of boiled down to the fact that I had given him multiple chances to get better and he needed to return the favor!
That was all about 9-10 months ago and things have certainly improved since then. We haven't gone to counseling, although we did back when we worked things out years ago after he got into recovery. We have, however, worked on the marriage pretty hard on our own. We still have a child at home so that's been a big motivating factor to work things out. That and just our history and what we've built together over the years. Who wants to throw all that away? It hasn't been easy and we don't spend a whole lot of time talking about my addiction, but it isn't a forbidden subject either, like it was for a while when he was so angry. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you about how to handle things with your marriage, but I don't really. We're just kind of feeling our way through it. I know Hatmaker and Jackcrack have done some work on it in therapy and that's probably the wiser approach. But my husband has not been willing to do it, at least thus far. He has apologized for the way he treated me and explained his behavior only by saying that he was just angry and had repressed his true feelings initially. He also expressed that he felt very alone as he didn't have anyone he could talk to about what had happened with me. All understandable....completely. I've been on both sides, so I do understand how he felt. It seems that it's all about forgiveness for both of us. I disappointed him and the person I was before was gone and somehow seemed like a lie to him. It was a lot to work through. I've known since I married him that he is by nature a pretty self-absorbed individual. It was just too much to ask for him to support me fully and without resentments when I messed up. As I said, it was a painful time and I truly thought it might be the end of the marriage. Which was all the more unsettling because I had ruined my career and had no means of income.
Addiction is just not an easy thing for a marriage to survive. Because of his history, he may have been a little better equipped than most to handle it. He did go with me when I was in outpatient treatment, to the 'family' night meetings, so he got a little bit of education there. At times, he's been pretty great and at other times...not so much. I think it's just a process. For me, it's been imperative that I have someone other than him who I can talk to about my addiction and recovery because I definitely don't always feel 'safe' confiding in him. One good thing is that he has become quite supportive of Suboxone. He can't deny the difference it's made and can readily see how much more progress I've been able to make since starting it. I have a feeling that if I hadn't gotten on it, my drug use would have escalated quickly and in all liklihood I would be going through a divorce right now. I'm so grateful for this drug. As I've said before, it has truly given me a chance to get my act together, work on my issues, and it probably saved my marriage or at least, gave it a chance to be saved. I think a lot of this just takes time. I hope as time passes and your husband sees you making progress, he'll be more interested in talking about things. Maybe it would be good for the two of you to go to counseling together. It's just difficult to work through....like you said, all the lies and deception and disappointments. We also have to forgive ourselves for it. And that's what I find to be the hardest!


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:10 am 
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Hi again,

Thanks so much for your response. I thought I had read most of your threads here since you started posting but never saw anything about your husband, must of missed that one.

I can just imagine how shocked your husband must have been to find out about our addiction to opiates. Did he find out after your work did, or before? That must have been such a horrific day for you. It was probably a good thing he didn't react negatively when he first found out. That would have been even worse then, as you were already going through so much with everyone else finding out.
It's certainly a good thing that he understands addiction and all the negative actions we are driven to do that we would never even consider if we were not using. I still find it difficult to understand addiction and I'm the addict, must be next to impossible for spouces and families to understand why we did the things we did without really considering the consequences or not caring about the consequences at the time. I mean I certainly knew what would happen if I ever got caught, but would just try to block it out, I could have easily lost everything i cared about and just about did. I honestly believe if I would have stayed in active addiction much longer I would have OD'd, or got arrested. One of the last days I picked up my oxy from a contact, she got busted less than half an hour later. I was so scared that they knew about me, too and the next few days I was terrified. That same night I took 10 80's of oxycontin and am still surprised that I survived that. I was afraid to go to sleep and had to actually make myself breathe. I set my alarm and would hit the snooze button so it would go off every fifteen minutes just in case I nodded off. That was the longest, scariest night of my life and that was my bottom. I knew I would die if I kept it up. I told my husband the same day.
It was even worse considering that only a few months before I was fighting for my life having cancer. I swore to myself that if i survived Ovarian Cancer I would never take my health for granted ever again and then only a few months later I was killing myself taking lethal amounts of oxycontin. I mean, who does that?

I know my husband is not interested in counselling. He is "religous" and believes we only have to pray to get healed of anything and everything. He used to really piss me off saying that if I was "right with God", then I would not be suffering from addiction. Needless to say, I don't bring my addiction up very often. As far as the Sub, he thinks pretty much the same thing, and that I wouldn't need to take it if again I was "right with the Lord" He rarely gets sick and would never even take a tylenol, so I suppose he is "right with God". He drives me nuts with this stuff at times and I think he goes a little over board, but also feel guilty about abusing myself. I consider myself pretty spiritual but certainly not on par with how he feels, which I know is not right. The only comeback I have at all is the fact that he smokes cigarettes, and if it was that easy to be healed, then why is he still smoking? I don't ever get an answer for that one, but feel he is pretty hypocritical.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a novel....

Anyway, I'm glad your taper is going so well. You should be very proud of yourself. You've had to deal with so much in the last year and managed to stay clean and taper your dose. I also agree that because you didn't have a problem with addiction until you were 40, that you do know how to live clean. I think most addicts have suffered from some kind of addiction most of their lives, and for me at least, I really have no idea how to manage or cope with daily stresses. I'm 48 years old and just starting to learn how to live, how to deal with life and how to have healthy relationships.

So, please keep posting through the rest of your taper. It's been so good for me to follow your journey, gives me a little hope that I can do this, too. I'm certain you are also helping hundreds of other addicts that are out there lurking, reading your posts but not yet ready or just not posting. I was one of them for over a year, before I finally had the courage to try to get clean and it was from following your journey that gave me some hope.

So, thanks again. You are truly a huge inspiration!

Ginger


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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