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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:19 pm 
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I'm not talking about Subutex/Buprenorphine at all here guys. Just to clear that up right away.

I hear/read many people posting about how bad and terrible it is that their doctor gave them 90 subutex every month or even refills for a few months, but made them switch to Suboxone. Whether the film or the generic tablets or even Zubsolv... Whatever you want.... Just not subutex anymore. This does suck, I agree. BUT.

Here in WV they have passed a law in September 2012 stating that all patients may not be prescribed buprenorphine /naloxone tablets. So we get to basically either she'll out hundreds of dollars or have good insurance.

They want to help fix is epidemic opiate issue, but turn around and make the most affordable option illegal (lobbied by a doctor that is contracted to RB) and that's just sick. I'm so freaking tired of hearing about how addicts can abuse a tablet and it's just reinforcing addict behavior by taking a pill.... Blah blah freaking blah.

Bottom line is... Addicts continue to die and commit crime because they can't afford help. Especially when they could be getting an amazing tool for generic prices! But no... You went as far to make it a law that says no. That's on you guys now my friends. All so you can line some pockets and move some shares around. It's ridiculous. Obviously you don't want this problem to go away... Or if you do, you're just really stupid then. Can't be any other way.

Lastly. I want to see what starts to happen (especially in January) when lots or all insurance companies require patients take generic tabs or Zubsolv and these docs just have their hands tied. Either people will go from paying $20 to $400 every month... Or they won't be able to afford it anymore, be forced off, relapse, and possibly die/commit crimes. Sounds like a wonderful law to me. It's actually terrifying... Thinking that I could be forced back into paying cash. I hold out hope that Zubsolv falls under a different legal umbrella because of the "wafer" classification. Or some new totally mind blowing bupe product surfaces soon haha


Funny how this law passed before any generics even came out and RB had no more on the shelf. There were no tablets to even make illegal that were bupe/naloxone..... Ughh.

We will see I guess. I'll keep you guys posted on what goes down with different insurers. It just so happens that my personal insurance company is a state public employees insurance company... So if they say I have to only take generic tabs.... There will be a a very angry patient on the phone all day haha. (I had nothing witty there)

Night. MM1


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:34 pm 
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I haven't heard of this. I know here are some screwed up laws regarding buprenorphine for patients who have Medicaid and state plans especially, but buprenorphine is certainly not illegal or unavailable in any state. You also mentioned buprenorphine/naloxone and also buprenorphine hcl, so I wasn't 100% sure which med you were actually referring to, I'm assuming generic Subutex but at any rate none of the formulations are illegal or unavailable.

Not illegal, but also not covered by many insurance providers. Many insurance providers require prior authorizations from Dr's as often as every 90 days, and some companies limit the max dosage to be 16mg except 24mg for the first 90 days of treatment and only allow up to 24mg for up to 90 days total, so if someone tapered and eventually got back on they could never again have 24mg as they used their 'one time 90 day supply of 24mg." Also, many companies will not cover any buprenorphine products if a benzodiazepine, barbiturate, soma, ambien or lunesta are also prescribed even by the buprenorphine physician. Many Dr's won't prescribe generic Subutex despite it being in patients best interest as they drank the RB Kool-Aid regarding the benefits of naloxone. I really hope buprenorphine doesn't turn into a nightmare any more than it already is!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Well sir. I like your post. Good info.

Only thing is this and I will send links if you really want them... But... Please read the opening statement here again.....

NOT REFERRING TO SUBUTEX OR GENERIC BUPE.

I am some talking about ANY new GENERIC TABLET that is labeled as buprenorphine/naloxone.... Generic Suboxone tablets... Not subutex.

They are illegal. Only thing Idk about it Zubsolv. But. All the generics are illegal. Not subutex though, which is totally ass backward! But. It all comes back to one of the first guys to use brand name suboxone even in a clinical trial of his own... This is nationwide not just wv when I say first to use the stuff for addiction... But signing on with RB so he could be in the front lines and do clinical trials of his own as a quasi employee of theirs. He is the factor that caused the illegality. Not just random political figures. Seriously. Do you think those delegates care or even know what buprenorphine or suboxone are? Nope.

Ahh. It sucks but I'll live. I'll post again in January when insurers change up, I


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:41 pm 
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In the State of W.VA, It is against the the law to rx bupe/nal in any form but the R B FILM PRODUCT.. This law was past last fall as the news of Generic Bupe/Nal were to come on market in the spring of 2013..
This has nothing tp do woth subutex.
This has to R B driven. So, Moviemaker is correct.
The only way to around it is if the addict would have a medical reason. Couldnt take the film for med reasons.
Also, many in my clinic "class" are showing up with letters stating that there ins wants to drop the films for the cheaper tabs or Zub.
They each have been told by the caseworker an drs that the clinic will "take care of it". Many are scared and nervous. They should be. Of the 14 in my group,none of them stocks up..i am a cash payer. Yes there many ways to do this cheaper. But all in all i cant complain.not yet....anyway.. thats bupe in W.VA .an yes our dr is a RB REP. If any of you read the NEW YORK TIMES story last month,you saw my dr. He was the one with the tie on..and let me say this, this man saved my fn life. And i have NO problem with a Dr making money. I also have 3 other drs in the sub bizz as clients of mine. Good guys but shockingly do not have a grasp of what this med is all about....so...
My 2 cents......raz.....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:56 pm 
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I read the original post yesterday and was pretty surprised when I google searched this topic and found it to be mostly true. As razor indicated, there is a line in the law that reads, " it shall be sublingual film unless clinically contraindicated" which provides at least some kind of loophole.

The only thing I'm not quite clear on is does this apply to clinics and treatment centers alone or does this apply to private doctor practices, as well. The legislature I read tends to read as it applies to clinics and treatment centers alone.

Welp, I just found another link that says any practioner prescribing suboxone must prescribe the film. Wow.

Here's the link, it's item #5.

http://www.wvsma.com/Portals/0/MedAdv_April2012WEB.pdf

Either way, this is a disturbing move by WV.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:20 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
Either way, this is a disturbing move by WV.



Everything that I know about WV is disturbing. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Good that you checked it out Romes...And if any of you really want to see an great place come over, down up to W va..or you can just believe as you wish.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:39 am 
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^ Im just having a bit of fun. Every state has a bad rap about something, WV just happens to have a few. I'm sure there are good things that aren't talked about much in the media. I've only been to Grafton, WV once for work.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Grafton?..well no wonder!..lol..I live 25 miles noth of there. Nice little town. Its kool that you were here tiny..We are a bit touchy about this place we call home. And yes, every state has something...well xcept CHEAP SUBOXONE!!!!!.. Ok..done with this topic...peace...raz....


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:51 pm 
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So.. Get this.... PEIA... Public Employees Insurance Agency.... Is my insurance and is a State insurance company.... They were present and involved in the litigation to make tablets illegal in WV... But.... As of January 1st will be taking the films off of the preferred drug list and replacing them with THE GENERIC TABLETS!!! So they told me they will only be covering an illegal drug basically!! The state said that!! So. What to do? Pay all that cash somehow? Oh wait... They do still cover 10% if the film's are "nessasary".... This makes no sense and is such bullshit..... Sorry but it is. Someone needs to explain the logic here. From the state.

That's like the president saying that cigs are illegal but will only allow you to buy cigs.


No sense.

How can you only offer to pay for something that you helped make illegal and is unattainable????


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Just as an extended update....

WV Medicaid and many many (if not all) insurers are moving to this new generic.

So watch the news for all the crazy shit that is going to happen when a shit ton of addicts are released back onto the streets looking to cop. Bad news. No matter how you cut it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:46 pm 
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UPDATE:

It feels good to be a shitty addict doing shitty things to people, to changing minds and laws that save People's lives!

So. Express Scripts now covers the film under MOST policies.

And.

The NAABT has backed me and now WV Legislators are confident that the outlawing of bupe/nalox tablets law will be repealed in the first half of this year!!!! They just met today for the first time and finish in March.

I'm just glad I've helped save lives. I've kept addicts alive. I did something positive in my life.

Just shy of 3 years and counting... Can't believe I am this far every day of my life lol.

Thanks all!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Man, that's so great! Big huge congratulations and thanks for stepping up to the plate!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:54 am 
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That is awesome MM! You'll probably never know how many people you've helped by being an activist!

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:03 pm 
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MovieMaker1 wrote:
UPDATE:

It feels good to be a shitty addict doing shitty things to people, to changing minds and laws that save People's lives!

So. Express Scripts now covers the film under MOST policies.

And.

The NAABT has backed me and now WV Legislators are confident that the outlawing of bupe/nalox tablets law will be repealed in the first half of this year!!!! They just met today for the first time and finish in March.

I'm just glad I've helped save lives. I've kept addicts alive. I did something positive in my life.

Just shy of 3 years and counting... Can't believe I am this far every day of my life lol.

Thanks all!!


Is there a bill out there currently to get this repealed? I wish you would elaborate a little.

I've gotten so frustrated with not being able to afford my strips, I'm snorting them now to make them last. I can't pay rent, and all my other bills and afford these. My doctor isn't accepted by medicaid nor will medicaid fill his script so I'm stuck. I've looked into the law, and it looks like NOTHING in the law REQUIRES the doctor to prescribe Suboxone. The sublingual film law only applies to buprenorphine/naloxone prescriptions. It's perfectly legal to prescribe Subutex, buprenorphine by itself with no justification. I wonder if I print this out and take it to my doctor if he will write it out for me. Before someone berates me for snorting my strips, it's alot better than selling them to be able to pay for it. I've been clean from everything else since 10/3/13.

TL;DR buprenorphine tablets can legally be prescribed, just not when combined with naloxone. What makes you think the law will be repealed?

1. http://www.nabp.net/system/redactor_ass ... 032013.pdf
2. http://www.wvbom.wv.gov/newsletter/2013 ... er2013.pdf
3. http://www.wvsma.org/Portals/0/MedAdv_April2012WEB.pdf
4. http://www.legis.state.wv.us/Bill_Statu ... e=RS&i=437


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