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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Hello all and wishing the best for all of us,

I have ran into a little problem. I was licking the gel out of 100mcg/hr patches and now am sucking on the pieces. I know that this is not the right way to do things nor should it be thought of, but I was wondering if anyone has any info on a good time to start the suboxone? You know to avoid the percp. wd's. I was wondering cause you guys have a lot of good info, but only time for like the people on oxys. They are the ones that have the most general time frame. Please help me cause iam ready t get out of this stuff thank you all and I hope to hear back from you


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:12 pm 
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I hope atleast there is someone out there that can answer my question. How long after chewing on a fentanyl 100 patch is it safe to go back to suboxone?? I was told to come here cause of the understanding people and the help. I had 23 views and no one could not even give me a mod ot anything please help me out here


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:25 pm 
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I'm new on subs,really dont know about fentanyl. I would take it when I started wd's but that is me. I waited about 4 hours after my last oc to start subs and I was sucessful. I hear lots of stories that says to wait longer but that is my story and I was honest with the nurse and dr on my visit. They had told me 24 hrs I took one or two at 9 am and when I woke up I was feeling like crap so I took one at 5 am and appt was at 9. So that is my story not telling you to or not too.
What did your dr say? If your honest with them they will tell you exactly what to do.
Good Luck
Mel :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Induction Phase - 12 to 24 hours after last opioid use, where Buprenorphine is medically administered.
Stabilization Phase - patient no longer craves opioid, useage has stopped or decreased significantly, and no longer experiencing side effects.
Maintenance Phase - the detox phase where patient usage of opioid has stopped and Buprenorphine dosage is steady or ended completely.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:56 pm 
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From what I have read you should wait unto 72 hrs for Fent.
I wish you the greatest luck, you sound like you have really had enough... Let's hope that things work out well for you.
Cheers


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:25 pm 
I have never personally went from fentanyl to buprenorphine, but I would assume that 24 hours would be the amount of time I would give myself if I had to. I have seen 72 hours also, and that is likely for switching from transdermal systems?, but since you are taking orally I would say that 24 hours as with any other oral opioid minus methadone would be about right. This is totally a random guess, however, so when you actually do it, it would be helpful to everyone if you came back and posted your findings! Best of luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:14 pm 
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Hi and welcome,

I have no experience with fentanyl either. More so than a time frame you need to be in mild to moderate withdrawl. You can Google the COWS scale and it will tell you how to tell if you are in enough withdrawl. I would also suggest calling your Dr and asking him, he probably has more experience with fentanyl. If I had to guess I would agree with Travis but again its just a guess. I wish you well on your recovery and hope you stay in contact this is a great recovery forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:10 am 
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I believe the 72 hours is for the fentanyl patch due to it being so long-acting. But like someone said, since it's not being used that way, it'll just be a matter of being in mild to moderate withdrawals much like the other short acting full opiate agonists.

Here's the link to the COWS to determine where you are at in your withdrawals so you don't induce too early and risk precipitated withdrawals: http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_ind ... _sheet.pdf

Are you doing this with the help of a doctor or are you doing this on your own?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:33 pm 
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I come here alot and read but I had to register and reply after reading the link to the COWS scale. Specifically where it tells the doctor to take into consideration if a person has been jogging. Have these people ever seen opiate withdrawl? Who the hell is jogging while in withdrawl?? I think that would be a dead give away that you weren't in withdrawl.

Anyway, all you people seem cool and supportive. I have been on sub since the end of '08 but it has been a roller coaster ride after initially finding great success. Of course everyone gave me the "drug for a drug" speech and I felt guilty spending the money i had to so I tapered down and was at 1 mg a day comfortably when the great relapse happened about a year into recovery. Ever since I have been battling back and forth. My doc never gave UAs so I could just lie my way through appointments, etc.

My wife left and though I do see my kids alot, it isn't the same. She kept giving me chances and I kept choosing to use so I cannot blame her. It is on me. I want this to end.

I have just made a counseling appointment and am changing sub docs. I am an ADDICT and have ZERO self accountability. I have to be monitored. The counseling consists of 2 groups and an individual session a week along with UAs etc. It is actually the place I started subs at before they lost funding and, in turn, lost their sub docs. They are back now and I hope to continue the success I had.

I didn't mean to hijack any thread so sorry if I did, I just had to respond to that ridiculous jogging comment on the COWS scale and I just went off on a tangent. Sorry.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:20 pm 
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I, too, was freaking out at induction. I had read an article by The Doc that said with a 600mg Oxy habit (mine) it may take 3 days before the Sub worked. My wife made me just listen to MY doctor. 18 hrs after last Oxy dose, and in full W/D (not jogging), I was given 4 mg of Sub. Nothing happened. 3 hrs later the Ibbie Jeebies stopped. Everything just continued to get better from there.

If you've been around opiates for a while you know what moderate w/d's means. If you don't think you're there yet, tell your doc. All told, I was in w/d for around 12 hrs. Not too bad. The last kick was 7 days in a hotel room wanting to die...only to end up feeling like hell for another 90 days before I relapsed. The Sub is working. I took my last Oxy dose just 9 days ago, and feel pretty good. I feel about 10 times better than 9 days after with no Sub. If I can say anything to you it would be to be totally honest with your doc, and to trust him/her.

Craig


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:33 pm 
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duluoz wrote:
I come here alot and read but I had to register and reply after reading the link to the COWS scale. Specifically where it tells the doctor to take into consideration if a person has been jogging. Have these people ever seen opiate withdrawl? Who the hell is jogging while in withdrawl?? I think that would be a dead give away that you weren't in withdrawl.

Anyway, all you people seem cool and supportive. I have been on sub since the end of '08 but it has been a roller coaster ride after initially finding great success. Of course everyone gave me the "drug for a drug" speech and I felt guilty spending the money i had to so I tapered down and was at 1 mg a day comfortably when the great relapse happened about a year into recovery. Ever since I have been battling back and forth. My doc never gave UAs so I could just lie my way through appointments, etc.

My wife left and though I do see my kids alot, it isn't the same. She kept giving me chances and I kept choosing to use so I cannot blame her. It is on me. I want this to end.

I have just made a counseling appointment and am changing sub docs. I am an ADDICT and have ZERO self accountability. I have to be monitored. The counseling consists of 2 groups and an individual session a week along with UAs etc. It is actually the place I started subs at before they lost funding and, in turn, lost their sub docs. They are back now and I hope to continue the success I had.

I didn't mean to hijack any thread so sorry if I did, I just had to respond to that ridiculous jogging comment on the COWS scale and I just went off on a tangent. Sorry.


Hi and welcome!

I am glad you decided to join and hope the forum is as helpful to you as it has been to me. It's never too late to get serious about recovery, getting to that point is a part of the process. I do not know the situation between you and your wife but it is possible to heal relationships but it must start by healing yourself. If it doesn't work out at least your children will get back the father they deserve. No doubt this is a battle but its a battle you can win. I wish you strength and happiness in your recovery and i think you are getti.g off to a good start!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:02 pm 
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craigo2 wrote:
I, too, was freaking out at induction. I had read an article by The Doc that said with a 600mg Oxy habit (mine) it may take 3 days before the Sub worked. My wife made me just listen to MY doctor. 18 hrs after last Oxy dose, and in full W/D (not jogging), I was given 4 mg of Sub. Nothing happened. 3 hrs later the Ibbie Jeebies stopped. Everything just continued to get better from there.

If you've been around opiates for a while you know what moderate w/d's means. If you don't think you're there yet, tell your doc. All told, I was in w/d for around 12 hrs. Not too bad. The last kick was 7 days in a hotel room wanting to die...only to end up feeling like hell for another 90 days before I relapsed. The Sub is working. I took my last Oxy dose just 9 days ago, and feel pretty good. I feel about 10 times better than 9 days after with no Sub. If I can say anything to you it would be to be totally honest with your doc, and to trust him/her.

Craig


I have not read the article where Dr. J said this about people on high doses of oxy but I have read posts of people taking a few days for the sub to fully take away their withdrawl. I am sure it is an individual thing and perhaps that's what he was referring too but like I said I haven't read it so I don't know. I am glad you are doing so well!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:32 pm 
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I thank you all for your friendly thoughts, you see its hard for me to judge on the cows scale. I really dont know you know what to look for i mean I know it tells you, but I am so freeked out about making it the right time you know as far as the scale. I was thinking the 72 hours is a safe one to think. Also I knew someone who was in the same spot as me and he had xanax and he said it took away a good amount of the opiate withdrawals, he said at the 72 hour mark of not having no fentanyl or anything he did not bfeel bad. If i take the xanax to help me get through to the 72 hour mark will it be ok to take the bupe?? See what I mean there are so many questions and there are so many what ifs thank god for you people who know the thought process in which I am encountering thank you and please keep thoughts and prayers coming for me as well as I am doing for you


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:08 pm 
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Taking Zanex will not have any effect on starting sub but be careful because it is highly addictive. Your Dr will assess you too make sure you are ready. Also he will give you a small amount of Sub to begin with to make sure you have no adverse reactions. I do agree with the others that the 72 hour period most likely applies to people wearing the patch as prescribed. However there is nothing wrong with being safe. Worst case scenario you will just suffer thru withdrawl longer than necessary. I am sure you will do fine, I know it can be a bit of an intimidating situation but try not to stress so much. Soon you will have your induction behind you and you will be on the road to recovery! My thoughts are with you and please keep us posted.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:06 pm 
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ok I am glad to know it will not have any adverse effects, but what I was asking is that when my friend reached the 72 hour mark of no fenatanyl because of the xanax he did not feel like he was in withdrawals. My question is at that time if i feel like him at the 72 hour mark can i go ahead and start because I can not get a hold of my doctor thats why i was asking please answer back any one who will know or have an idea. My friend said that the xanax took most of the wD'S AWAY AND when he hit the 72 hour mark he never told me if it was ok or not to take the suboxone which I imagine it will be right??


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:11 pm 
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The reason why I am asking this is because I can not get into the dr for induction for 3 weeks and I am ready to get started to thats why I am asking other friends like you guys out there who have the experience. I know you are not doctors , but atleast you understand the hard part is I am going through this alone and i am anxious to get started I got enough subs 8 mg ones to last me until the doc of visit thats why I want to get a head start


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:30 pm 
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I would say that you should be more than fine at 72 hours but if you are unsure start with 2mg and wait an hour before taking more. This will let you know if you are ready without taking too much sub. I took zanex during my withdrawl and it didnt help me much, I still felt like crap and was in withdrawl. If this happens to you and you are in withdrawl prior to 72 hours I would try a little sub like above. There is no reason for you to suffer needlessly.

Also, was your friend wearing the fentanyl patch or ingesting it like you? I ask because if he was wearing it that is most likely why he did not feel like he was in withdrawl for 72 hours. While zanex can help for most people it will not take the withdrawl symptoms away.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:33 pm 
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breezy ann thank you for your info he was chewing them like me and he swears by it that the twitching and he did not even get the runs or anything. He had used pieces that he sucked on before he said that did not have much on them but he said he used them and he never got back to my thats why I am asking because I am not that good as far as the cows scale I know xanax will not take everthing away but a good amount of it i am just wondering when I can get on with this and to the better part of things you know


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Oh and having already used pieces of patches around if you use them to help"lower or help you get down instaed of the "Cold Turkey do you still have to wait the same amount of time as wilth a full liquid patch?? you know sucking on one you already had before and I dont think there are much on them so i wias just wondering thank you for your thoughts


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:45 pm 
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Again not having any experience with fentanyl I would not take anymore, even if they have been used. Could it relieve some of the symptoms and not cause Prec withdrawl, maybe but I wouldnt chance it. Like I said time frames are less important, its your symptoms that are so if you get to the point where your withdrawing and feel the need to take more fentanyl then you are most likely ready for the sub and I would try a low dose of that instead to see how it affects you. Of course thus is just what I would do if it were me in your position.


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