It is currently Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:11 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:38 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
I think we have had other members in the past who had a bit of difficulty transitioning from Fent patches to Suboxone. If I recall correctly, they had to wait a bit longer than average between their last use of Fent and their first dose of Suboxone. Something about the half-life of Fentanyl and the way it builds up in your body when you're on a patch.

I have to go put my daughter to bed but later I will look and see if I can find those posts for you. Maybe there will be some words of wisdom there from someone who's been in a similar situation.

And don't give up! You've already started taking steps toward getting better and that is a huge accopmlishment. I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your girlfriend; dealing with that must be incredibly difficult. The fact that you are making positive changes in your life in spite of what you've been through is inspiring. Please stick around and let us help you in any way we can.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:28 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
Ok, here is a link to an old thread where several people share their experience of switching from Fentanly to Suboxone, mostly how long they had to wait before induction to avoid precipitated withdrawal. The first couple of posts are not about Fentanly, but keep reading and you will find a bunch that may be relevant:

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=42

The general idea I got from reading through the thread is that the Fentanyl patches deposit an amount of medication under your skin, and even after you're no longer applying the patches it takes a while for this deposit to disperse. So it can take quite a bit longer to go into enough withdrawal to safely switch to Suboxone. The other issue is that Fentanyl patches greatly increase your opiate tolerance. If your tolerance is higher than the amount of opiate effect you can get from Suboxone, you will feel shitty when you start taking Suboxone. People switching from higher doses of methadone or big heroin habits have also reported this effect.

So basically you want to make sure of 2 things before you do your induction. One, make sure that you are in moderate withdrawals as scored by the COWS worksheet. Two, make sure you have been off of Fentanyl long enough for your tolerance to come down somewhat. Some of the people in that thread said their doctors gave them short-acting opiates to get them through a week or so without Fentanyl and before starting the Suboxone. Several of them stated that they had little or no withdrawals from the patch for 70-80 hours after stopping.

You really don't want to go into PW, so please make sure that you give yourself enough time between stopping the patch and starting Sub. And realize that you will likely need a substantial dose of Suboxone to allieviate your withdrawal once you get to the point where you can induce. As others have stated, you can start with a smaller dose but you'll want to keep adding to that until you feel ok. Hopefully you're under a doctor's care and he/she can help guide you through all of this.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:38 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:08 am
Posts: 1503
tiredofthegame wrote:
I know you guys are not doctors and I do very much apprecioate your comments to me. I do not think at that time I was ready, but I am going to try it again any way what is this stuff called loperamide? Does this help to a degree better than the xanax or whats the deal . This is hard on me I live by myself and I am on my own on this so you guys are my friends to help me through this thank you all and I am praying for those of you who are fighting and those of you who have won the fight


Loperamide is a a drug that is used to control diarrhea. It has been proven to attach to the mu receptors we have in our large intestine. It's here where slows the bowels in the same way as other opiates. The difference is that loperamide has very low presence in the CNS, so its attachment to the mu receptors in our brain (the funky ones) is negligable.

Whether it helps for opioid withdrawal is controversial, and I don't know of any studies into it. The reason there is so much suggestion is because it featured in the Thomas Recipe, a recommended "guide" to detox created by an addict.

I tried it, and found little use for it in detox. It did help with the diarrhea / stomach cramps though, which is a plus. Whether it took any edge off my withdrawals otherwise is difficult to tell. Used in conjunction with other detox-aids I'm sure it wouldn't be harmful.

Seriously, don't fear your transition to Suboxone. You were only eating / licking the patches yes? Did you use any transdermally? It makes a big difference. If you lick or eat it, its half life is incredibly short, under half an hour. If you have it transdermal, its half life is quite long. You'll have to look it up though.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:09 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
It's my understanding, too, that you weren't wearing the patches, just eating/licking/sucking them, right? So, like tear said, that means they'll have a much shorter half life than if you were wearing them.

The xanax should make you feel better, but shouldn't make all your withdrawals go away to the point where you won't notice them. I believe I said this before, but when in doubt, look at your pupils. When they get dilated (large), that is indicative of you being in withdrawals (whereas usually when opiates are in your system they are small or even pinpoint).

If it's been 24 hours since you last sucked on a patch, you shouldn't have to wait any more than another 12-24 hours, in my opinion. Two days should be sufficient. Just keep a close eye on your symptoms. And if you need to, share them with us and we'll help you to figure out where your withdrawals are.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: this is simple
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:26 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 211
if you feel like typing on the computer, you're not ready.....i think there is something you are not telling us e.g. did you wear the patches transdermally and for how long? any other opioids? if you were just licken the gel , you would have plenty of time-also, i take it a dr isnt involved?...go about this right man....its yer life, the more honest you are with us, we can provide better info........something just feels ingenuine or weird. I'm done with this till I get an update or a serious reply. wish you the best:)(seriously)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:54 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
To indigo there is nothing "INGENUINE" I am telling the truth I have only ate the gel then cut the rest into strips and sucked on them. To hatmaker you are right the xanax does help but like I said it was 70 hours since the last use last time and I was hardly going into wds and when i took the 2mgs I started to get hte kick feeling. It is coming up on the time when I soon will dose again but now i am not even getting any hot or cold flashes I think AI am going to hold off see if it gets worse I am just like everyone else here at one point trying to get through this and looking for guidance from "veterans of it" I cannot see the doctor till nov 18th though and like i said I al ready to get off of thid ride I am going to try to go 4 days i think that will be sufficient enough thanks hat and breezy and you other guys for your thoughtd anymore please chime in


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:06 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
I was wondering how long you have been using fentanyl and if you took it daily? I am wondering if it is possible that you are not dependant on the fentanyl and will not go into withdrawl. Have you suffered withdrawl when you ran out of your doc? If you are indeed dependant then I have no idea why you are not going into withdrawl yet. I guess it just goes to show we are all truly different. I hope it comes soon because I know the waiting is causing you unwanted stress and worrying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: i call
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:43 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 211
the bluff...hate me- i don't care. i don't believe you are dependent on fent.man, fent is soooo short acting with a hellaaaaa want to kill yerself kick- not sittin at home fartin on the computer.......how many times/months? 5 patches every day? for 3 months????hypothetically- if that were the case, you would be climbing the walls 2 ?days in....i believe you prolly had miniscule wds and think something heavy is a comin but it ain't. How long you been using ? ever kicked before? im not asking these questions to look cool LOL , believe me, being addicted to opioids was the last thing i needed. i hope your in the clear! i wish you would tell us more..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:57 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
ok indigo I am thankful you are here to help i am sorry but it is tough going through this by myself any way I have dealt with the kicking and having to move every 3 sec and banging my knees together i have been using the oatch (eating) never wearing for about 1and 1/2 i have had no other opioids and I am just am looking for help from people who have been through it and that way Wether or not it works Its nice to have people be on yourside not call a brother from another state like mine and said he has got to go all the time you know this is my only means of talking to people but while i talk to them id like to get better


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:08 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
Ok I have never ever done "h" beofre and the only thing I have done was the damn patches but like i said i suck all the gel out at once on a 100 mcg patch. Then i cut it into strips and put it on my gums in my cheek. I am really not exoeriencing any wds but i did go see a doctor before about this i was on suboxone for like 3 months until my girlfriend died sorry i dont feel comfortable about talking about it but i guess its the best way, Any way it was going back and forth between the sub and the patch but everytime i switched back it was diffferent. Now i am asking for others peoples advice because i got sick the last time its been about a month of 100 mcg patch and no sub and i am getting ready to get back on the road to rocovery its what my gf would have wanted sorry for not giving the full details but felt boxed you know


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:21 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I remember there have been a couple of people here and there that had similar experiences. It was like they just never had any real acute withdrawals, yet they had a real addiction history. Regardless, they induced onto suboxone and did so without any problems and were just fine. It's not what I'd say a common occurrence, but I have read of other such experiences.

If I were you I'd wait for about 1.5-2 days total with no opiates then start taking the sub. But that's just me.

Your other option is to try to just quit on your own and see how you do. Have you tried that before? The problem is, we addicts usually can't just quit our DOC, that's why suboxone is so great - we CAN taper down and off it.

Thanks for keeping us posted. Again-good luck.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:52 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
No hatman my edrug of choice went from norcos to fent. But i did get really bad wds about a year ago. I went and seen a dr aboput suboxone in november of last year and got well then went back.to the patches which came after the 10/325 norcos. I am scard when to induce again but you guys I know are not doctors but from what some of my other friends say that people on forums have a better grip than some of the doctors handing out the suboxone. Thats why you ask someone who has been through the jungle i guess


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:56 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
I had 1 precip w/d with fent once thats why i am leary and I had to take more fent to make it go away then wait like 70 hours and then go bacj to bupe but there has to be an easier route just wait to get sick snd go from there you know what I mean my man just trying to get through this shit by myself


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: it
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:09 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 211
sounds like you really aren't tiredofthegame.....i can't decipher what you are saying, but it sounds as if you are indeed an addict...obviously, you've been on bupe....stop[ lickin fent patches ,wait till wds, then bupe......im done w this one!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:49 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
one more question indigo, you said it sounds like i was worried about the wds earlier in the post you think this could all be in my head? Cause my last dose was of 100mcg patch was on 30th of october and then I cut the sreips up and used them and they were done by tuesday little ones i guess the last strip I had was like a 2 inch by3/4 inch square and thats all since tuesday through wed morning and I have had no wds al all atleast none to notice


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:11 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
I just want to make sure I understand where u r at so I can help to the best of my ability. You had an used strip of fentanyl Tuesday? If that is correct then I would wait it out some more. You need to abstain from the fentanyl completely and if you continue to use it (even already used patches) when you start to not feel well you will likely never be ready to induce.

Like I said although crazy the goal here is to feel like crap, and you need to abstain from all opiates for this to happen. Please let me know if I interpreted your post wrong and I will do my best to help you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Chill out
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:56 pm 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:31 pm
Posts: 182
I have read all the post and I think you are panic about this. I would have to say maybe chill out and not freak out so much about all this. You will have to be in withdraws for subs but if you freak out and take fen then you are just making this longer and drawn out. If you dont have withdraws then Great you dont need either what a Blessing that would be. I just see that too much thinking is going into this.
When you start or if you start getting sick TAKE THE SUBS not the fen stay away from the fen. Throw them away so your not around them OR near them.
Good Luck it will be ok just stay away from the fen
Mel :wink:

_________________
Dreams are only Dreams unless you persue them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:06 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
You know what breezy and met talk. I think you guys are 100% right I am over thinking this I need to get rid of what I got right now it has been 93 hours since I last had gel but I had a piece of patch tuesday, If it comes arleast I got the tools to combat it....if not looks like i got out by the mercy of god and prayer thank you for what you guys have done fore me and I will be looking forward to letting you know day by the the struggle that continues you are all in my thoughts thank you and godbless


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:10 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
Yes, you just need to relax and let whatever comes come. You absolutely need to get rid of all the fentanyl if you are serious about sobriety. If you never get sick and decide to not take any sub that is great! However if you start having cravings or fear a relapse you can start sub treatment even though you did not get withdrawls. In my opinion getting you thru withdrawls is only a small part of what sub has to offer a recovering addict. If you have cravings you can not control cold turkey the right dose of sub will control your cravings. It will also block other opiates from working so it makes relapse pointless.

I recently was tested during a very emotionally hard time. I unsuspectedly came across a bottle full of oxy (my doc) and went as far as taking some pills home with me. The next day I gave them to my mom and told her and my husband that I almost relapsed. I have to give a lot of the credit for avoiding a relapse to sub. I knew I would not feel anything from the oxy because the 16mg a day sub dose would block it's effects. It is possible that I still would have abstained but the blocking effect of sub made it easy to do the right thing cause what's the point if you can't get high.

I am not saying you need to get on sub or you will relapse but I wanted to make sure you knew you could still benefit from sub should you find yourself not doing great going the cold turkey route. I look forward to hearing your progress and please get rid of the fentanyl!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:25 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 53
Breezy you did see earlier in the thread that I did see a doctor last year for ub. My dose for the day was half a pill in the moringi and 1/4 at noon and 1/2 at night that was my dose for suboxone then the fentanyl and the girlfriend thing hit me and here I am you know So maby i will not go through the wds because it has been 96 hours since I had the "Gel" and it has been over i think 16 hours since any strips of anything with fentanyl and there are no other opiates around here but H and that is not my thing but anyway mabey I lucked out and see you got dfamily to talk to I mean mine keeps there distance because they believe that addiction is a state of mind and not also a physical one so they more or less sweep it under the rug and "point the old finger" you know but thanks for eltting me vent and its good to know that I can talk to you people thanks thinking and praying for all of you guys out there


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 85 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group