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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Suboxone has been rather good to me. After a back injury in 2003, I started down the road of opiod dependence. By 2008, my daily dose of oxycodone, per prescription, was nearly 800mg/daily. (Every visit my doctor remarked upon quick tolerance to increases and continued writing scripts.) Frankly, I didn't get the "high" anymore; not for quite some time. Actually I had thought I functioned quite normally and attacked 10hr-workdays with few misteps and continued to surf regularly. High-volume opiods were normal daily living. Until, that is, I drove across busy San Francisco on lunch break one day to pick up my monthly refill...only to find my refill emphatically denied. Apparently, I had picked up that prescription just a few days earlier. Angered (and worried), I swore to the impossibility; damn the person who stole my prescription (or) the office's shoddy record keeping of controlled drugs. Ultimately, it was my word against two medical-office staff who swore to my earlier pick-up. To this day, I have no recollection of that prior "errand" (and that prescription went unfilled). At this point, I had narcotics collected to stave off withdrawl for nearly a year. After a fentanyl & methadone combo, my doctor prescribed Suboxone.

Fast forward to present day: For the past year, my daily dose of Suboxone was 24mg. I had the 8mg tablets, and for the past several months 8mg daily sufficed. Eventually my back pain signifiantly subsided, and I was left with the daily routine of waking up, eating a quick breakfast, and then the taste of that little orange tablet. My morning routine. But despite many benefits, there were issues and I wanted off. (Attributable or not--my libido nonexistant; my digestive track asleep...) I half-heartedly tappered, but I am very impatient and was back up to 8mg. The thought of 10%, drawn-out reductions over the next year was, for me, depressing. The closest I had got was 4mg e/o day, but I was still sick at that. So a couple weeks ago, I consulted with my (new) doctor, picked up medications for withdrawl, and planned the day and week to stop. Today is my 9th day off. After a rough last week, I woke up this morning significantly better. My abdominal cramps were gone; I felt more alive. To be honest, (for me) I found that 8mg to ziltch wasn't so much worse as less significant tappering. Today, I'm left wondering--am I now done? Can I flush? (Admittedly, it still seems quite weird absent that taste every morning.) Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:09 am 
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I absolutely do not know and I doubt anyone knows. You are certainly well into the nasty part. I wouldn't go back onto it, if I were you. Can you lock them up somewhere, maybe at a relative's or something? You may do the up and down thing for a while, but you could be through the acute part already.

I'm starting to think the whole tapering forever and ever thing is not the best way after all. This may be one of those situations where it's best to just rip that band-aid off and get it done.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:56 am 
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flybittensavage - WOW!!! That is how I feel!! I got down to 6 and Im so depressed that I have so far to go!! Im also not good at this taper i will stay at 6 for a couple weeks and then back to 8 and so on and so forth. I have til July and my insurance wont pay for my subs anymore so thats when I'm jumping at whatever I end up at 2,4,6,8. I'm not going to the micro gram. Everyone swears by it but I just cant do that, and seriously at .025 how many receptors is that saturating.... If you dont mind me asking what wd meds did you get?? I have a script of clondine and vistral waiting for me when I take the dive. Please nobody take offense to what I said about the microgram taper, I just cant do it and maybe I will see when I get there but it just seems so OCD. I would rather just jump and deal with it rather than obsess over .01, .02. I will keep all of you posted when I jump either to tell you Im the man or you guys where right all along and Im a dumbass :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:04 am 
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I tried the slow wean... I would suffer for a few days though not very intense then even out. did this for a long time before I jumpped the first time. I will say the wd were not very intense but just lasted for me a long time. I went once for I think 4 mo before I caved and went back on. The last time I was just over it. I could face the month of weaning then jump and months again. So I switched to Morphine for a few weeks till I knew the sub was out of my system and went another route to combat the wd/paws/addiction. So... my thoughts are if your done with sub just take the plunge. Maybe it will be over sooner then you think but too continue to wean/worry/fret over weaning and jumping... just do it.

I was so sick of my life wrapped around the wean or need to wean, counting the pills to ensure I had enought to get thru this or that. Hell... may as well (for me) been counting real dope. I just feel for me... if my life is consumed with the wean/jump then its a problem. I read at so many other sites those poor folks weaning and some for a yr now... what kind of life it that? What is gonna happen will happen. You may be one of the lucky ones and only go thru a few days of feeling shitty ... or you may be one of the unluckly ones that suffer for months. Wont know till you get there.

Wishing you all the luck for a easy transition off bupe.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Thanks all. I appreciate your thoughts. (I have been lurking here for quite some time, but never got around to posting.) My meds for the drop included Metoprolol (rapid heart rate, which I never experienced); Clonidine (sweats, anxiety, which I definitely took--mostly precautionary and for its drowsiness side effects); and Promethazine (nausea/vomiting, which I took, but never really experienced). I had easy access to Valium and other medications, which I never needed. I wonder if something like a 3-day Fentanyl patch would have been beneficial for transitioning an abrupt stop at larger, non-taperred dosages like 8mg?

By far, the Clonidine was the most helpful throughout and the one medication I'm glad I had. From days 6-7 on, I haven't taken anything else. Admittedly, I would have very much wanted something for abdominal cramps, rather than nausea. (That may just be personal experience.) I also believe something like Ambien (cr) would have been quite beneficial (and for on-going sleep issues). I asked for them both, but my doctor felt otherwise.

I'm still experiencing trouble sleeping, and I wonder when my digestion will return to a much more normal state than it has been ever since taking suboxone--I only regret that I still have nearly 3 months of the medication in my cabinet. Yet as tempting as their presence continues to be, I believe my withdraw anxiety would have been much more intense if I was near the end or out of my prescription. I continue to believe I am done. (My appetite is finally starting to return.) A good thing for next week's birthday, I think. For me, the best thing was my doctor just telling me 1. Nobody ever dies (suicide not included, I suppose) from withdraw and 2. You will be over this and feeling better in a week (or two). Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:25 pm 
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flybittensavage, it actually sounds like you aren't doing too badly, considering the large amount your dropped from. About the sleep, it absolutely sucks. I'm going through that too, and I'm tapering still. I'm taking Melatonin now. It does work to a degree. It's not going to knock you out, but the good thing is there's no hangover and if you still cannot sleep, you don't feel like you are in the Twilight Zone.

Put some space between you and your Sub. I would not flush it, but I wouldn't have it too easily available either. If you are having a bad day or even a bad moment, you might take some without thinking it through. For me, at least, that would really psych me out. Once you take it, it's in your body for so long. Once the pleasant relief from symptoms was over, I know I would be kicking myself pretty badly. Why put yourself through that, KWIM?

I hope you can maintain the resolve to keep going. Tapering is very tough, especially for people who have struggled with using things to excess. It's totally unnatural to be forcing ourselves into a state of moderate discomfort on purpose, especially when we have the meds right there to take and fix it. It's such a crazy mental game, and you are smart for just stopping altogether because you knew you'd have a hard time sticking with it. Tapering does take over a huge chunk of your life and brain, no matter how much you try to not let it. You are free of that!! I'd get the Sub away from me if I were you, so it wasn't even an option. Still, I would not flush it.

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: dont look back
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:11 am 
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I agree with ladder just gut it and press on you are almost there I am at day 15 now and am semi functional. I get out I eat ect. the skin stuff stopped. It still is alittle hard to focus on things visually, but at least I dont have to taste that taste everymorning that got me out of bed its very freeing keep strong.


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Sorry have been absent awhile trying to put things back together. Still keeping on keeping on (or keeping off). It's been about 4 weeks since I stopped from 8mg. Trying to pick up my job search and/or return to school.

I still feel tired and lethargic--can't truly sleep and not quite thinking clearly. Anyone have any idea how long the brain's natural neurotransmitters to start flowing again unimpeded after long term narcotics dependency? Would really like to know. After 12 days straight of about 2 hours sleep/night, I finally convinced my doctor for an ambien prescription (which helps when trazadone and amitryptilene does not). I know the risks of ambien dependency and am ready to assume them--I'll take the 3-4 day rebound insomnia after quitting; have done it before. Trying to exercise a bunch, eat right, and practice mindfulness meditation. One dependency for another perhaps.

Most discouraging at my check-up was my doctor's slap-my-face lecture yesterday (or Spartacus' "spread cheeks for greater...." well you get it.). Here I was all these years thinking that I was on suboxone for pain management. She said after quitting from 8mg I should have been fine after 7-10 days. Most people have back surgery; receive oxycodone; quit oxycodone (despite persistence of pain); and go about their merry way. If not it's the mental addict speaking in me; that she has a bell going off at this point that tells her I may be genetically predisposed with a brain chemistry wiring of a life-long addict; that some people will always feel the need for opiate medications to make them feel normal; that studies show addicts have an 80-90 percent relapse.; and she went on to say that some people just need to be on suboxone for life. (At my frown--"well there are some brilliant successful addicts in history--Nightingale, and so on.") While all of this certainly may be true (and for me), it's just not want someone--who want to be free eventually of all medications other than a good multivitamin--wants to hear. I thought it was Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome--she said that's "addict talk." Now I'm confused; I thought I was doing fairly well. If not a pat on the back, I wanted her support.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:40 am 
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Hi fly....don't know if you're still around but if you are, I hope you'll post and let us know how you're doing and if you are doing better by this point.

I'm sorry I didn't read your post back when you first posted it! Your doctor is sadly one of the many, many mis-informed MDs out there who prescribes Suboxone but doesn't have a clue about getting folks off of it.

"fine after 7-10 days" is so laughable. Tell her to take Suboxone for as long as you have and then feel fine 7-10 days after jumping. The half-life on this stuff is just firing up good at that point plus all the Sub you have stacked after being on a higher dose for a while.

This is just my opinion but one that I've formed after being on it for going on 4 years and being in my taper for 4 months:

Suboxone is a struggle to come off of. It takes an incredible amount of discipline, strength and fortiude within to do a slow taper (which I think is the BEST way to do it). A faster taper (which is what I've been doing) is going to produce somewhat of a constant state of mild w/d. You are "living the taper" for months on end.
Cold turkey, as you did it, is very hard to do on Sub because of the long half-life but if you can do it, it might (as ladder said) be the best way to go..."just rip the band aid off". I wish I had the courage to do what you did!
Not everyone can do it and most of the stories I've read from people such as you who've done it say that the PAWS is worse but that IT DOES go away eventually.

Our brains have an amazing capacity for healing...especially long-term opiod users as there has been NO DAMAGE shown to the brain in long-term opiate use. It's just that it can take months and up to 1-2 years for the dopamine reuptake, the healing of receptors and our creating our own dopamine to get back to normal. The good news is that everything points to the fact that IT DOES AND WILL HAPPEN....we just have to have patience.

I hope you are still around and respond...would love to know how you're faring these days.


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