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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:23 pm 
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I've been lurking around this and other forums for a year or so, but haven't had much to share as of yet. I have read other peoples experiences while going through thier own WD's from Sub, and thought I would share mine.

I have been on Suboxone for almost 6 years now and have decided that my life is in a much better place and I have what it takes to stay drug free without the help of Sub. I took my prescribed 16 mg for the first 4 years or so, before realizing I didn't need quite that much. I tappered down to 4mg rather quickly and stayed at that dose for a a year or so. I continued to taper down further, but only made it down to about 3mg most days and 2mg on others. The past two days I have taken just 1mg per day, and thats as low as I'm gonna go.

Now The fun part begins. The reason why I haven't just sucked it up and tapered down to the .5mg or less thats suggested, is because in my own head I would much rather feel really bad for a few weeks then feel kind of bad for several months. I am certainly very anxious about the Withdrawels that I am going to be feeling very soon, and I wish now that i had tapered down further, But I didn't and Thats life.

I'm open for any Ideas about comfort meds that may help me through this. I can't get any clonadine right now, so any over the counter Meds or vitimans will be usefull. I'm aware that alot of the pain associated with WD's is as much mental as physical, and I'm going to try to remain positive about everything.

The reason why I'm stopping now is because I don't have to go back to work untill the first week in March, and I believe a month should be enough time for me to get back the energy to work and take care of the family. Any thoughts on that?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:36 pm 
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Imoddium and restless legs pills. I got the restless legs pills at a walmart in the vitamin section. They help tons for sleep. Not as strong and good as clonodine is said to be butwhen I went CT off of pills they helped.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Thanks for the tips, I'll try to get the clonidine on monday when I can call the DR. again. I do have 3 flexeral and one Valium, I don't know how good they could be, maybe just a phycological boost at most. The anxiety and sleeplessness is whats gonna get the best of me. not the mention the drawer full of I subs I still have at home. I should probibly do someting with them, right.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:55 pm 
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Hey Not_alone

Glad to see you're working towards quitting.. it's really tough no matter what... I've quite opiates cold turkey twice and it really is no fun.. Though you taking about a month to give yourself time to recover is the best way to go about it, because i've had to cold turkey and continue to work, that was pretty crazy.

Anyways, I tried to jump off at 4mg and that was hell, no thanks.. so I went on about 2 mg for a week or so and I'd suggest doing a taper still, but not for like a month like other people say or so forth. but something like this

take 8mg pill and a quarter of another 8mg and dilute into 10ml of water, so each ML = 1mg

then I did three days at 1.5, then three days at 1mg and now going to do three days at .5 and then three days at .25

this has been a real help for my body to adjust and seems that this really works and takes about 10 days to get through that process then, I will no take anything and hopefully the WD will be minimal

You will feel slight signs of WD with that kind of taper, but for me I can normally just occupy my mind and ride right through it and get over feeling anxious... just indulge in it and realize that your heart is working good and take your pulse.. you'll be surprised.. most likely it's right in range.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask on here or PM me.. I get on here daily.

Keep us up to date, posting on here really helps! Everyday gets better!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:07 pm 
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After 6 yrs of subs... WD's without tapering and stabilizing below 1mg will likely be difficult. You should be in good health with a strong support system in place to attempt it. I understand time is a factor with your work situation so I wish you the best... you can do it if you are determined and well motivated.

Good luck and keep us advised how things are going...


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:21 pm 
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I was by no means expecting this to be comfortable, infact something rather painfull is what I believe im in store for. I woke up this morning not feeling to hot, but i'm sure it's just my nerves getting the best of me. I took my last dose of 1mg at around 10am yesterday, so I know it's still in my system enough to ward off any WDs. If by Wednesday I find I can't deal with it, I may start out again by taking only 1mg a day for a few days and then drop to .5 for another 3 days or so, before stopping again. That should be enough to ease some of the Acute WDs. I hope. but who knows, I was always very good a dealing with the Withdrawels from either H or Oc's what ever I was hooked on at the time. If its not much worse then that, I should be fine.
I'm pretty sure Its gonna last longer, but i'm convinced it wont be as intense as the others. I'm in decent health, I eat enough proteins and carbs and have increased my fruits and veggies for the past couple of weeks. I work out a couple times a week, although a few months ago I was working out every day. I am certainly in better health then any of the detoxs I had while using the street drugs.
I'll keep posting.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:16 pm 
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yeah thats good that you're eating healthy and exercising... those will help keep you feeling better and relaxed,plus get some of that anxiety worked out.

I'd do 1mg for a few days, then drop to like .75 or .5 whatever you think you can handle, and keep chipping down like that.

It's just insane how much pain we forget about because we live in a life of opiates and then these normal day ache and pains seem way more exaggerated,so I just keep reminding myself most of that is fake or more amplified then normal and that helps with the mental game.

This is my 3rd detox and so I know what to expect in lots of cases... so it can make it a bit more difficult to go though some of the WD symptoms.


Though I have tomorrow at .5 and then tues-thur at .25 and then Friday I will not take anything and Saturday night / Sunday morning I should be at my apex and start to WD and it should be minimal.

Right now my WD symptoms are very low and I think thats the beauty of tapering.. instead of going cold turkey and it just hitting you all at once.. you taper and you feel it little by little and then when you quit you have a spell of a day - so of feeling icky and then a week to two later you are feeling back to normal... and then after a month or so I should be back to normal...

Then it's up to reminding myself why I quit in the first reason and keep that in mind... I plan to only use opiates in scenarios where I absolutely need them and will have my gf who is a nurse keep them and administer them as I need. I don't want to go back into this quandary.

Keep posting like I said earlier.. it helps get it out.. find a person who you feel safe talking about this.. the more you talk about it and get it off your chest, its a lot easier to go through the pains..


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Ya I suppose your probibly right about tapering being a better choice then just stopping cold turkey. I'm gonna hang in there till wednesday as planned and then if need be take 1mg. I think after 3 days without Subs my body will react well to a small amount and then I can taper it down over the next week or so untill I stop entirely. Thats what im hoping for anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Your situation sounds similar to mine. I've been on them for 4yrs starting at 16mg and I took my last .5mg last sat morning. I had been weening myself down for months and tried jumping off at 2mg but after 3 days of wd I gave in. I have to go thru this without missing work which makes it very difficult. So after explaining this to the doc he gave me vyvanse, gabapentin, and zolpidem for the wd's and had me try it again. This time I tried really hard to ween myself down further knowing that if I didnt I could lose my job. So for the last month I've been breaking up the 2mg's going from 1mg a day down to .5 every 3 days or so. I took the last .5 on sat and started on the other stuff and after 3 days I feel ok. I definitly feel run very run down, depressed, and have no appetite. But I've been able to function well enough, which I couldnt do when jumping off from 2mg. So I'm hoping this crappy feeling only lasts a week or so and I'll be feeling normal again but we'll see. I only want to take these other drugs for a short period but right now I'm not sure how long I'll need them. I think getting off these things can be done though without incapacitating yourself with wd's, but from what I've read on here (and my own experience) it seems most people need to taper well below 2mg and atleast get something to help you sleep. I just hope that after detoxing from suboxone I feel as good as I did when I was taking them. This drug really helped me when I was ruining my life with any kind of opiate I could find, kept me from being so depressed, and made me feel much more stable/normal. Good luck


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Jumping off at 2mg or even 1mg as I understand is really tough... I've mad pretty light to moderate use of SUB for a few months and previously it was heavy opiate use.. well kind of heavy.

I've weened myself down pretty quickly over the last 12 days from 2mg to .5 and now im down to .25 for the next few days... then hopefully will be barren of opiates by Saturday... so I'll know what this ride is going to be like.

Tried to jump off at 2-4mg and it was HELLLLL lolo

But keep it up, stay positive and give yourself praise for the little hurdles you archive. Every day is a challenge and little parts of the day can be challenges in themselves... so I kind of make it a game to see how I can do.

Though the night sweats and anxiety is what typically defeats me... just stay busy and keep your mind busy and that can normally supersede the anxiety feelings.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Well I'm still here, a bit embarrest actually. I just couldn't handle last nights kicking and discomfort so I caved in and took .5mg at around 4am. It all started about 9pm lat night, I layed down on the couch becasue my GF would have certainly kicked me out of bed for all the kicking and moving I would have done in beb all night. Anyway I thought I would watch a few episodes of Dexter (season 2) on Netflix, i really needed to catch up since I havent seen any of the new season yet. Well, I watched about 8, hour long episodes last night while tossing and turning about. I didn't feel that bad, I just knew I wasn't going to fall asleep without the sub. I didn't have any sleeping pills, I didn't feel that waisting my only valuim on day 3.

I regret my decision greatly now, while I sit here feeling okay again, I think I must have already made my mind up on doing a slower taper down to .25 over the next 3 weeks instead of just jumping off It all happened because of a meeting I went to last night (explained below). I'll try to stay at .5mg for a week or so, that should give my body time to adjust to that dose.

67gt, sounds like we have a similar situation given the length of use and amount we were prescribed. The lack of sleep is my number one problem with WDs, I can deal with everything else fairly easy. I laugh when I read peoples post about having now appetite while in WDs, I wish that were the case for me. I eat much more then I should be eating, for some reason eating food helps me feel better, Ide be guessing when I say this but my brains reward system must be at play, and food is helping to release dopimene or something. You just hang in there, your well on your way out of the woods.
you mentioned these drugs vyvanse, gabapentin, and zolpidem that your dr. gave you. What are they used for and do they help?

I know alot of these Dr.s only have an 8 hours course and little knowledge of Suboxone, I must have got lucky with my DR. He is pretty well know for his knowledge of Suboxone and it's use. He gave me some really good advice about tapering down slow, steady and to the lowest possible dose before stopping. I went to my monthly suboxone support group last night with the Dr. and a addiction specialist, funny cause there was 86 people in attendece, that a record for our group. I went there to bring up my decision to jump off sub, and I learned that there were 3 others in the group who tapered down to .25, then went to every other day dosing, and even reduced it down lower after that. I got in contact with 1 of them today on the phone and he told thier stories (I knew them all from group anyway) He tells me that they didnt suffer much of any serious WD's. They haven't been having to bad a time with PAWS either. It makes alot of sense to me. If you taper the Med down at your bodys speed of recovery, then the most you can suffer is a mild WD for a couple of days at each reduction, and It won't get worst when you make you final jump from below .25mg. Your body has become used to the changes and is able to handle them with little effort. Plus, when you jump at below .25mg you body isn't going into much stress due the tiny amount of sub it has left in it the time. Another few days after the final jump and it's all healing from there.

One of them unfortunity relapsed 4 months after stopping the sub, after he got hurt at work and took some pills. He has since went back to NA and is currently struggling with his addiction again.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Not_alone:

Don't let yourself feel to upset about giving in and going and taking some sub... I woke up Sunday morning kind of freaking out and I remember taking a little crumb, but I didn't try to let it me deter me... taking .5 mg is not really that much.. do that for a little while and taper down to .25

Use the liquid taper is honesty best way to reduce your amount you take in. You can get droppers or the syrine without needle type thing that measures out in ML and those you can get from a pharmacy for free most likely, just say you need them for giving cough syrup for your kid. Then you can take like 8mg sub and an quarter.. so 10mg total, and put 10ML of water in there... and then each ML dose =1mg or half a dose = .5 etc..

So you can do the math however you wanna make the dosages, its just a lot easier... I also have suggestions on how to more accurately measure .25 .5 dosages as well.. so let me know if you want some help.

I've been using that method and it seems to be working well.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:41 pm 
I just wanted to chime in real quick and wish you all continued success in your tapers. It sounds like you've done your homework and know that it takes a lot of effort and time to stop Suboxone in an optimal fashion. You've worked so hard and so long on your recovery, why rush it at this point and cause more suffering than is necessary? I've heard of several people who have been able, through a well-planned and slow taper, to come completely off Sub with only very minimal difficulty. So give yourself a break and allow yourself a little extra time if that's what it takes to be successful!
It sounds like you're doing great! Keep up the good work and keep letting us know how it's going for you. You can't know how many others you may be helping by posting your experiences!!
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Not_Alone I'm very impressed you've made it down to such a low dose after 5 years of maintenance. It's encouraging to know that if I would decide/have to taper off Suboxone for some reason that it is possible without extreme withdrawal. I'm sure we're all different but I've always had extreme withdrawals symptoms (granted everytime I ended up in withdrawals I was jumping from no less than about 300mgs of oxy a day) and as such I'm absolutely mortified of even having to think about when/if I have to taper off. But I'm very comforted reading through your posts. We have had several other forum members use the "water" tapering method as gubulars described successfully. It's just really comforting for me to know that using a very gradual taper eliminates hardcore withdrawals. I'd just really like to remind you (as I'm sure you already know) that this isn't a race and those who've been successfull tapering talk about letting their bodies get used to each decrease before decreasing anymore. I'm really happy to have you with us and I as well as many others here will be hoping the best for you :)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Not_Alone - My biggest problem with this is also lack of sleep. I have a job that requires me to be fairly professional, energetic, and have a clear head. I cant show up looking like I've been on a 3 day binge. After jumping off a couple times and calling in sick because I hadnt slept in 3 days, I knew I had to try another way. I was pretty concerned at this point that I was going to have to do something drastic and put my career at risk. Next appt I explained all this and he gave me those 3 scripts. I'm not trying to pretend I know all about them but after I googled them it seems like the vyvanse (an Amphetemine) will give you some energy, gabapentin helps with kicking legs and such, and zolpidem will let you sleep. Someone please chime in here if I'm wrong. Part of me feels like I'm giving up 1 drug for 3 but after lurking here awhile one thing stuck in my head "do what you have to do to get thru it" So thats what I'm doing. And after 5 days off suboxone its working well. I dont feel great but good enough to go to work, and I've been sleeping about 90%. No tossing around and no leg kicks. I dont know if its the correct thing for everyone but its working for me right now. I'm a couple days past the point where I've given in before so I'm getting a little confident that I can do this. W'ell see. Good Luck


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:20 pm 
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MATT2,
Glad I could encourage you. I think alot of the Withdrawel is in our heads, especially during tapering, I stayed very positive the entire time and I know it's why I feel so good right now. I might be crazy, but I don't feel much different now, then I did while taking 8 or 16mg, a little bit more lazy, but certainly not sick or depressed. I have taken a little bit of sub everyday since my caving in the other night after watching dexter, never more then .5mg a day. Actually I took .25mg on wednesday and .5mg on thursday, I haven't taken any yet today, but I'm going to take .5 before bed I think. It really helps me sleep, without It I would certainly be up all night trying to convince myself I don't need it (see, its all in my head).
When and if you decide to taper and jump, I know you'll be able to do it.

I don't rule out anything and neither should you, if I find I can't stay sober without it, I wont hesitate to get back on it for as long as need be. I cannot put my family or myself though a relapse, that part of me has been locked up for almost 6 years, my GF will never have to see me like that again, nor will my daughter ever see me like that, I stand firm on those comments, I will never subject my family to the horrors of me when I'm actively using, not never.

The water taper method looks like an option for when I get below the .25 mark. I find it easy to cut the 2mg pills into quarters so I haven't need to be to critical as of now. I'm going to run out of the 2's in a couple of weeks, so i have to dip into my stockpile of 8mg. At this low dose, I could probibly go 10 years without seeing the Dr. again. The addict in me, forced me to save up an exuberant amount of them over the years.

67gt,
Thanks for the info on those meds. I used to be treated for ADD (adderall) most of my highschool day, and then while I was in my last halfway house, so im well aware of how the amphetemines help. Although I haven't heard of vyvanse, I might mention it to the Dr. and see if maybe (after i'm clean) I can try it for a week for so.
Giving up one for three isn't so bad, your using the 3 to help you stop taking one right, and then plan on discontinuing the three after you acomplish your goal, so that just fine in my book, keep it up, your doing great. Sounds like your over the hump, I have a dr.s appointment in a few weeks, so I may ask about the other two meds aswell.

Anyway, I don't have much more to say about how my detox / taper is going, i'm just kinda going with the flow and it's working out, so far so good. Talk to You all soon, C.J.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:25 pm 
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setmefree wrote:
I just wanted to chime in real quick and wish you all continued success in your tapers. It sounds like you've done your homework and know that it takes a lot of effort and time to stop Suboxone in an optimal fashion. You've worked so hard and so long on your recovery, why rush it at this point and cause more suffering than is necessary? I've heard of several people who have been able, through a well-planned and slow taper, to come completely off Sub with only very minimal difficulty. So give yourself a break and allow yourself a little extra time if that's what it takes to be successful!
It sounds like you're doing great! Keep up the good work and keep letting us know how it's going for you. You can't know how many others you may be helping by posting your experiences!!
Thanks!


Sorry Setmefree, I didn't get to thank you for your nice comment's. Well, Thank you.
Thanks for the support, I'm glad to have found some good, caring people with an understanding of what im going though. I really does mean alot to have people who care around.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:04 pm 
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I got Clonidine prescribed today and I did quite a bit of reading and it sounds like it will help with WD quite a bit, not a cure all but definitely help with the anxiety, cold sweats/ flashes... so Im going to take it tonight in hopes it helps me sleep and I'll let you know later tomorrow how I feel.

Took like .25 or ish today so yeah, tomorrow will be the real truth..

Keep up the dedication and just keep taking those baby steps, we'll all get there soon enough and next thing it will be months later and we'll be opiate free and realize life isn't that shitty w/o the opiates :D


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:56 pm 
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Hey everyone, I just wanted to say that reading all of your post really helps.. We are all in the same boat.. I know that every story I read I relate to.. Today I feel like I have a cold, Headache as always. I took just a tiny tiny piece. I'm feeling the depression part. Well I can cry about a commercial on tv. It's funny when your on opiates it's hard to get a good cry. It's like your tears are dried up. I guess I see what today brings and hope for the best. If the funny feeling in my head would go away. Last night was the first time I had trouble sleeping for the first time. Wish everyone the best, Hope you all feel good today.. Much thanks to everyone for your stories.. Lynn


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Hey Slyn:

Glad to see your hanging in there.. sometimes ya just gotta take the baby steps before your ready.

I took clonidine last night and it helped quite a bit, not a cure all like I said earlier, but definitely helped. I only woke up a couple times and so that was nice... also didnt wake up in a hot flash mess...

Anxiety has been kept down too with it, it doenst totally get rid of it, but id take this over xanax or clonipin any days.. those make me WAY tired!!! I've been taking it every 6-8 hours and been great!

I feel weak and wore out, but my muscles feel good no leg aches, that seemed to be a sign from acute WD but since I've tapered down so much I dont think the WD are so acute.

Anyways, go see a doc and see about getting some Clonidine, it's non narcotic and its not a benzo.. so they should have no problem prescribing it to you.. My doc doesn't deal with addiction much so he needed a friend doc for some advice for dosage, but other then that i'm on the road to recovery!

I weigh about 310 lbs, im a big boy... 6'8" and the dose ive been taking is .2 3x a day... working well..


Anyways, just wanted to give some insight.. it's not a cure all, but helps with the annoying aspects of WD


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