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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:43 am 
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At this point I am feeling very tired and lethargic and my back pain is absolutely killing me. Just sitting here typing this back pain is making me sick to my stomach. Lying in bed last night the pain was almost unbearable (and still is). My reaction is that I made a mistake by getting off the pain medicine. I did not like the way the pain medicine made me feel but now I am reminded of why I started it in the first place. I’m honestly wondering if I made the right choice. I’m very tired and lethargic and in phenomenal pain.

Jackcrack wrote:
If you aren't feeling well then in my opinion your dose is a little low at this point. You may want to call your doctor and let him know how you are feeling. It won't hurt anything to increase your dose a little.

I am glad you made your decision. I just wish you were having a little better experience with it right now. Let us know how things go.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:56 am 
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I am sorry to hear how miserable this is. Honestly, your dose sounds WAY too low. You shouldn't feel lethargic and tired. I don't think your doctor understands this medication very well. You shouldn't need clonidine when you take it because you shouldn't be in withdrawal. If it were me, I would call the doctor first thing and ask for an increased dose after explaining how you feel. Were you in mild to moderate withdrawal when he started you on it? If not, you could be having precipitated withdrawal and if that is the case then you probably feel just AWFUL!.

Find out how much your doctor knows about suboxone. Has he taken the classes on it so he can prescribe for addiction? If not and he won't increase your dose you may want to find another doctor FAST. He can still treat you for any other problems but I would want a doctor who knows suboxone in my opinion.

You won't ever know how well the suboxone will work for your back until you take it properly and are on the correct dosage. I won't lie...I think even once on the correct dose your back is going to hurt a little. Also, when you are in withdrawal pain will be magnified horribly so I am sure you are just miserable. I also think once on the right dose your mind is going to have to adjust to feeling/experiencing pain again period so it will hurt more initially until you get used to it a little. If it isn't working at that point, they may need to give you subutex AND put you on something else for breakthrough pain.

I really cannot urge you enough to CALL YOUR DOCTOR. Please then check back in with us so we can help you through this.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:29 am 
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At this point I am feeling very tired and lethargic and my back pain is absolutely killing me. Just sitting here typing this back pain is making me sick to my stomach. Lying in bed last night the pain was almost unbearable (and still is). My reaction is that I made a mistake by getting off the pain medicine. I did not like the way the pain medicine made me feel but now I am reminded of why I started it in the first place. I’m honestly wondering if I made the right choice. I’m very tired and lethargic and in phenomenal pain to the point I cannot go to work. I cannot sit in a chair for more than a few minutes. I cannot lay in bed and sleep. My wife tried to warn me of why I went on the pain medication originally and I’m sorry but she is right. Regardless of the side effects, I cannot function in pain. I can function on the pain medication just at a lower mental acuity – and that is okay.

I’m stopping the Suboxone treatment immediately. I have already had to cancel my work schedule until I can get this substance out of my system and begin my normal pain management plan.

I tried.

I tried to go without the pain medication (oxycontin) but I simply cannot live in this amount of pain. I tried taking more of the Suboxone (3 x 8 mg) yesterday in hopes that this would alleviate some of the pain and it did not. All it has done is make me more tired than when I was on Oxycontin and no pain relief.

My back is seriously screwed up and I was an idiot for thinking I could deal with the pain. Actually, the longer I had taken the oxycontin the better some of the symptoms had gotten. This whole thing with my job and everything that was going on has caused me to make a rash decision. One I now seriously regret and now I have to wait until the Suboxone wears off before I can start back on my regular routine.

I honestly was hoping the Suboxone would alleviate some of the pain and make me feel a little better mentally but to be honest it has made me more tired and lethargic than the Oxycontin. At least I felt good and pain free on the Oxycontin. I will take zero pain over mental acuity any day being even if I’m operating at 80% that is still better than most people in my profession.

This is my life and I refuse to live life in this much pain. I simply cannot do it. I’m sorry but I’m going back on my original plan effective immediately and I will deal with the negative side effects that all pain medicines have to a certain degree.
With that said, I am looking into laser surgery for my back. Possibly this will allow me to get off the Oxycontin but as long as I am in this much pain I will continue to use the Oxycontin and suffer the mental side effects. I have an appointment set up at http://www.zerospinepain.com/ on April 8th to explore laser back surgery. This is my only saving grace to finally being without pain and not having to take pain medication.

As I stated before, I just cannot live in this much pain. Not living in pain corrupted my train of thought thinking that maybe I could do it without the pain medicine. I had forgotten how much pain I was actually in on a day to day basis. And it is an all day pain – it NEVER goes away; never.

It causes my stomach to cramp up, sometimes brings tears to my eyes. Came close to impacting my marriage and my job – I feel like such a complete idiot for thinking I could do this on my own without any pain medication.
Well, the pain quickly reminded me that I am not superman and like it or not I don’t see where I have any other option unless the surgery works but until then I cannot endure this much pain. I can’t do it. I’m sorry - some people just have to take this medication. I guess I'm one of those unluckly souls that must take it.

If it was going to work, it would have worked at least somewhat by now don't you agree? I should not be in this much pain.


Jackcrack wrote:
I am sorry to hear how miserable this is. Honestly, your dose sounds WAY too low. You shouldn't feel lethargic and tired. I don't think your doctor understands this medication very well. You shouldn't need clonidine when you take it because you shouldn't be in withdrawal. If it were me, I would call the doctor first thing and ask for an increased dose after explaining how you feel. Were you in mild to moderate withdrawal when he started you on it? If not, you could be having precipitated withdrawal and if that is the case then you probably feel just AWFUL!.

Find out how much your doctor knows about suboxone. Has he taken the classes on it so he can prescribe for addiction? If not and he won't increase your dose you may want to find another doctor FAST. He can still treat you for any other problems but I would want a doctor who knows suboxone in my opinion.

You won't ever know how well the suboxone will work for your back until you take it properly and are on the correct dosage. I won't lie...I think even once on the correct dose your back is going to hurt a little. Also, when you are in withdrawal pain will be magnified horribly so I am sure you are just miserable. I also think once on the right dose your mind is going to have to adjust to feeling/experiencing pain again period so it will hurt more initially until you get used to it a little. If it isn't working at that point, they may need to give you subutex AND put you on something else for breakthrough pain.

I really cannot urge you enough to CALL YOUR DOCTOR. Please then check back in with us so we can help you through this.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:52 am 
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I'm so sorry to hear you're having such a horrible time of it. I'm curious, exactly how long were you taking the suboxone? From the dates of the thread it seem to be only a couple of days. I'm not going to tell you your decision to go on it then to go off it was right or wrong. Only you can make decisions for you. I'm just wondering if you gave it long enough. I can't say exactly how long, but my chronic pain didn't go away immediately.

That said, I must also point out the it could simply be that your back pain is just too intense for this medication to handle, being a long-acting partial agonist and all.

Regardless of all that, please keep us posted on how you're doing. We care.

Melissa

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Yes, a couple of days but I took up to 5 of the 8 mg yesterday and should have had some pain relief. I was absolutely miserable. I was in so much pain all I could do was to lay on the floor. I was not able to sleep in my bed; I took 4 clonipin at 2mg each which did nothing. It was at this point I had to make a decision and did not see how this could possibly work to help with my pain.

And, it is not just that – the Oxycontin relieved my anxiety symptoms. Something that was a Godsend in-of-itself and it alleviated my restless leg symptoms. If anything, it kept me calm, anxiety free, and pain free but most of all PAIN free. I can already tell this other medication will do none of those things so I cannot take it under any circumstances. I have already thrown away all the medications. I have tried every medication available; Suboxone, Tramadol, Celebrex – to maximum dosages to no avail – no relief. There are pros and cons with every medication but some things are non-negotiable and that is the PAIN. I will not live in this much pain.

I have come to realize very quickly that the mental acuity problems I was having is very minor compared to this much pain - the memory loss is nothing compared to real pain. I can operate at a lower mental acuity and slight memory loss. In this much pain I am NON-FUNCTIONAL. I cannot think straight, I cannot work, I cannot eat, and I cannot sleep. I REFUSE to live my life this way again.

I really screwed up this time. I just hope my doctor will allow me to go back on my regular routine after telling him I wanted to get off the Oxycontin. What if he is not willing to prescribe the medication – then I’m really screwed. He has known me for years so hopefully he will understand that I made a mistake and work with me on this – I hope I didn’t screw this up.

I really wished this had worked for me but in all honesty did anyone experience this much pain after taking Suboxone. Even after taking 5 of the 8 mg tablets? I did not know what else to do and hoped taking more would give me some relief but it did nothing to relieve the excruciating pain.
At this point, I’m just waiting for the medication to wear off so I can take my Oxycontin. Until then I can barely sit in this chair and type. I feel like a complete failure and idiot.


hatmaker510 wrote:
I'm so sorry to hear you're having such a horrible time of it. I'm curious, exactly how long were
you taking the suboxone? From the dates of the thread it seem to be only a couple of days. I'm not going to tell you your decision to go on it then to go off it was right or wrong. Only you can make decisions for you. I'm just wondering if you gave it long enough. I can't say exactly how long, but my chronic pain didn't go away immediately.

That said, I must also point out the it could simply be that your back pain is just too intense for this medication to handle, being a long-acting partial agonist and all.

Regardless of all that, please keep us posted on how you're doing. We care.

Melissa


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Bem I really feel for you. I'd really like to see Dr. Junig respond to your situation. I'm not a doctor, so all I can offer is support, empathy, and encouragement.

If you've been with your doctor for that long, then hopefully he'll do what you ask. If you just told him you wanted to get off the oxy because of side effects and not addiction, I wouldn't see a problem. But again, that's just my opinion.

My pain is not nearly at the level of your pain, and like I said, I'd bet the suboxone just can't address it properly. At least now you know what all of your opinions are/were and you can now make an informed decision regarding your treatment.

I'm so sorry it turned out this way for you. Hang in there and please keep letting us know how your are.

Melissa

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:49 pm 
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I’m not sure how much help I can be, BEM, but I'll try. When I responded to you a few days ago I made the comment that you have a very complex situation with both trying to address real pain and also wanting to stop narcotics at the same time. It seems like you were not given or did not seek out a lot of information about Suboxone before starting it. To begin with, it is not a very good pain reliever at all. Talk with most doctors and they will agree with that statement. Dr. J himself has made that comment. It is not used for pain very much at all and it seems like when it is, it is in conjunction with addiction issues. Another item that it seems you were not told about is what is termed the "ceiling effect" of Suboxone. What that means is that at some point, taking more and more medication will not provide any additional effect - be it pain relief or addiction symptom relief. So by you taking 5 pills over a short period of time, you very likely were past the point that any more pills would do anything else for you. Unfortunately, what taking those extra pills did do is extend the amount of time you are now going to have to wait to be able to get pain relief from your Oxycontin. You are going to have to wait for several days for the narcotics to start working again. Another concept that you should be aware of is that when withdrawing off of narcotics, even those of us who don't have real underlying pain issues are going to experience pain. That is a component of all of this. So when someone goes off of Oxycontin, they very often will have very intense muscle and bone pain. Unfortunately, you have real pain to contend with on top of it. Over time, the level of pain that you are feeling is likely to dissipate. However, as a few others have stated, it will likely never go away. The best that you can hope for on Suboxone is to make your pain tolerable. The longer you stay on it, the longer you stay off of Oxycontin, the less "rebound pain" you are going to have. By that I mean that those of us who would feel bone and muscle pain when detoxing will have that pain go away. So will you. However, you'll still have the underlying pain to deal with. Will Suboxone be able to adequately address that? I can't answer that. Perhaps it will, but perhaps it will not. I can tell you that you were not able to give it enough time to find out. As for the Clonidine, that is not going to help with your pain. Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that also works to some degree to address withdrawal symptoms. I'm not sure taking four of those was a very good idea, but what's done is done.

At this point, all that you can really do is take whatever non-narcotic medication that you can, use heat, cold, etc., or whatever works for you to help address the pain. An injection of Torodol might actually help but that is going to require a trip to a medical facility to obtain. It is going to take at least 48 hours since your last Suboxone for the narcotics to start working again. That is at a minimum as it could be more like 72 or 96 hours. Rest assured, you will again get your pain under control. From there, my best suggestion is to regroup with your doctor and chart a new course. I keep coming back to this, but I can't stress enough that you have a real need to get an awesome pain/addiction doctor to try to help you address things. Certainly, while in this level of pain, going back to what you had seems much more attractive. Unfortunately, it didn't sound like what you had been doing was working very well for you either. You may soon feel like you are in a no win situation. If that happens, finding the best pain management doc that you can is going to be key. Perhaps what may work is to taper down on the pain meds before making a change like this. Perhaps Methadone might be a better answer. Surgery may help. Trigger point injections or some other type of injections might help. I don't have the ability to tell you that, which is why finding a GREAT pain management doc is going to be very important. While this little "experiment" didn’t work out like you had hoped, please don't stop trying. There is hopefully something that can still work for you and help you get some balance back into your life.

I wish you the best of luck moving forward and hope you'll be able to tough it through the next couple of days as you work to get back to where you started.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:49 pm 
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I agree with everything that has been said so far. This is your choice and I have no right to make any opinions or judgments about it. I am not in your shoes and I don't have your pain. I do not think the induction process was done correctly and I don't think you were on it long enough, but without it being done correctly you will not know if it would work or not and clearly it isn't tolerable enough right now to continue on. I am very sorry you had such a bad experience with it and I am sorry it doesn't sound like they put you on it with much thought.

The tired feeling is likely because they didn't induct you correctly and instead of a mild buzz you just got sleepy. I think if you had a build up in your system that it may have worked better and I think it would have worked better if you weren't in withdrawal too because withdrawal causes massive pain AND exaggerates any other pains that might otherwise be tolerable.

I also agree with Don that unfortunately, you may end up in a lose / lose situation where it feels like you can't win. I might write off suboxone for now, but in the long run, keep in mind that it may be an option down the road if done properly. suboxone doesn't get rid of the intense pain I experience. But even the intense pain I experience isn't there 24/7 at a level 10. It is level 10 when I move or in certain positions but I can generally find one position that works for me. I can also get in the hot tub which takes the pain level in half usually. I can't stay in one position all day and infortunately I can't stay in the hot tub all day either (although I have rigged a television from inside the house so I can watch tv from it). But if your pain has always been a level 8-10 pain and it never lets up then I do not think suboxone will work for you.

Just a note on the pain control with suboxone in case anyone else reads this. Suboxone is actually a pretty darn good pain reliever but it depends on the type of pain. It eliminates my neuropathy entirely. Every once in a while I feel a twinge but not all day long like before and I can walk without cringing. With my other condition it keeps me functional for the most part. My old doc told me it wasn't good for pain either and I totally disagree. But it works better when you get a good build up of it in the system and then can take an increased dose when the pain is most severe.

Anyhow, again, I am very sorry you are so miserable. I hope you will keep us updated on how you are doing.

Cherie


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