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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:05 pm 
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tfisher,

careful with benadryl. I've heard anecdotally that antihistimines may make WD worse. I stayed entirely away from these during my WD. You may want to get L-Tyrosine. It honestly is the most efficient in helping you through WD barring any non OTC aids IMO.

Good luck with your jump and stay strong!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:54 pm 
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Evolved,
I bailed on my jump and took a .4mg dose last night around 6pm.

I don't know what it was specifically but I guess the need to feel better now was stronger than the need to be off Suboxone.

And the weird part? I wasn't even that sick. It just came up and got in my head that the way I was feeling sucked and that one little tiny dose would make me feel better almost instantly. And that was that.

I have read your entire thread, in fact it was one of the main reasons I thought I could do it! I still may do it, but I think I need to stabilize for awhile before I attempt again. I started becoming obsessed with how I was feeling minute to minute and obsessing over Suboxone, neither of which I ever did when I was stable.

Interesting what you said about switching to the strips. When I inducted on the medication in Oct 2012 I was started on generic tablets. Then I got a new doctor and he switched me to brand name Suboxone strips. I took those for over a month and never felt good, constantly had headaches and was just kinda numbed out and gross feeling and really bloated me up too. It finally occurred to me (and my doctor agreed) might've been the filler used in the strips not agreeing with me. So he got me back on tablets and within a day I felt good again. It was weird. So I'm terrified of the strips now.

Anyway, that's my story for now. I'm just kinda recovering from a combination of tapering way too fast, the ordeal of building myself up for the jump and then having to back out... And all the weird emotions that come with all of that.

Maybe this was my practice jump, I don't know. Right now I still feel the obsession quite strongly as this situation is fresh in my mind. Im definitely going to stay at whatever dose I feel stable on after a couple of weeks (hopefully still .3mg so I'm not going backward in my taper, thus creating a nightmare of a tapering roller coaster).... And then maybe I'll be ready to drop again.

Shit, who knows though. I'm feeling like my confidence is pretty deflated. I really thought I was ready but I guess I was not.

Any more words of wisdom?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Fishy,

Dooood, I am proud of you for trying to jump at .3mg. Seriously, it is a feat all in itself. I really hope you aren't feeling bad about going back to a low dose of sub. Girl, just the sheer fact that you made it to .3mg is amazing and a HUGE encouragement for people like me.

You can always taper even lower and then jump when you feel ready. You have grown so much and are such a positive, awesome person, you should take your time and jump when all of the stars align for you. Then, it won't even be a "jump," but more of a tiny step.

I lived through the 90s too. That part of one of your previous posts totally gave me an awesome flashback. Love it.

So, I'm rooting for you! Don't lose your moxy and keep up your awesome attitude. You can do this, it just might take a little more time, but so what? You will get through it and will continue to be an amazing human being. Best wishes!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:13 pm 
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Bad kitty... YOU are an awesome human!! Thanks so much for this post, I'm starting to feel better and better about everything as time goes on:)

Thanks for the kind words and the encouragement! Party on Wayne! ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:46 pm 
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At .3 mgs you are walking off.. no "jump" required. Getting off should be a cake walk, it's what you do after, to stay afloat without an aid, that is the question. My husband got down to this dose and didn't lose any sleep. He was a bit slugish the first week and that is all.

Your posts look familiar, have you had an account here before?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:49 pm 
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Tinydancer,
No, I have never had a account here before. I'm glad that your husband had an easy time "walking off" at .3mg. I'm hoping that will be the case for me at some point as well.

I don't know if you've read my thread at all, but i explain that my reasons for backing out of my jump and continuing with my taper were almost 100% psychological.

I commend your husband for being ready to stop his medication altogether! I do realize that .3mg is a very small dose but for a combination of reasons I just wasn't ready yet.

I'm trying again though! Stabilizing at .3mg first, for at least a week and then going to try again, reducing doses with the liquid taper to have minimal discomfort.

Thanks for sharing your husbands experience, it is helpful to know that it can be done!


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 Post subject: starting over with taper
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:07 pm 
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OK so after a couple days of thinking about my failed attempt to stop at .3mg,I decided I want to start my taper again.

Of course I will start from .3mg using the liquid method, and I will go sloooooower.

I thought for awhile I would declare myself a lifer. But I realized I am so close to being done that I would feel bad about myself for not trying again.

So, if this thread still exists when I get to the point of stopping entirely again, I will post. If not I'll probably just make a new one. Or I will just do it silently and disappear into space... ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:53 pm 
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I totally missed where you recently said you were staying on, apologies! But now I see maybe you are continuing on? Whichever path you choose, best of luck. Try not to analyse it all so much and definitely don't do anything before you're ready.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:26 am 
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Tiny dancer,
No worries, and thanks for the advice! The over analysis part for me is the WORST right now. Seriously, you should see my little notebook full of scribbles of ml to mg conversion charts and possible time tables of different taper schedules all over the place. My little brain is not equipped for this sort of thinking (probably bad for any chance at sleep to do it all just before bed too).

Do you personally believe, that at super low doses like I am at (.3mg and lower) ..do you believe that the half-life of bupe is shortened? Meaning, would I still want to give each drop 4 days on the new dose at the very least for the half-life to catch up with itself? My theory being I would think a person could taper quicker, dropping doses on a more frequent schedule at these levels, especially since the buprenorphine seems to leave the system quickly at these low doses (thus producing either actual or presumed/imagined WD in some people)? Any thoughts on this?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Fishy,

I think you gave it a good effort, and now you have an idea of what to expect, which IMO is a big thing as long as you use it as a positive, not a negative. In other words, don't get hung up on the idea that"it's going to be like _THAT_ again" think about it like - "Now I know what to expect, and I just need to get through it in order to get my life back." I know - easier said than done, but you need to really want it. If you don't think you can keep your cravings at bay, and have suboxone around you, you might need to give it to someone to hold for you for a while (until you're done with your jump).

My only other advice, keep reducing your doses. Get as low as you possibly can. It might feel like hey its easy to jump now, but lets just say you tried to jump at .04 instead of .3 - hypothetically thats pretty close to 1/10th of as much suboxone. For me personally, the taper didn't get much harder past where you're at. It did however end up being that I didn't really feel like I was stabilizing at all as I went down, however it never got so bad that I felt I needed to.

Seriously - go buy some L-Tyrosine and B6. It helps.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:26 pm 
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Fishy - To answer your question even though I'm not TinyDancer: I personally think that the half life does get shorter as you go lower. The relief it provided felt shorter and shorter each day. For me personally this was fine though since it never got so bad that I couldn't sleep, and never got RLS too badly or burning skin / really bad hot + cold flashes etc - most of the things that end up being really annoying for me. The majority of it was mental. Wanting to feel better now, or wanting to just fix my life and be better in the long run. As the effects of suboxone shortened for me, it became less and less of a thing I wanted to continue because it wasn't keeping me "right" for a full day, let alone more than 3+ hours a day at the lowest doses. But really, it was never so bad and what I'e gained from it both in knowledge and in body / wellbeing was worth the experience IMO.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 pm 
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Today I felt that I could safely resume my taper and dropped my dose to .26mg. This was the lowest dose ive been at yet.

Actually, i had a great day. Felt better than I've felt in awhile. Not too much energy but not dragging my ass tired either And my body didn't get achy either, despite working all day.

Going to work definitely helps and I know when I'm at jump day again this time I will make myself go to work to distract myself from whatever my body/mind is feeling.

Not sure if anyone is still following this since I failed my jump. But I am posting anyway just in case. I feel that if i was reading this, I wouldve wanted to know the rest of the story, (back when I was lurking and not posting I mean.)

So I'll see how I feel tomorrow. I don't know if posting/reading posts helps me more or if it just makes me focus more heavily on what I'm feeling.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Fish,
I've been reading all your posts. I've only been on Suboxone for about 5 weeks, but it just seems to me that you might be moving too quickly from one reduction to the next...just a little too aggressive for your body to adapt. I think your plan is great, just that you need to stretch out the periods between changes. I know how it is...we do good with one step and then get confident (or over confident) and end up going too far. Just my opinion.
Morphing


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Morphing,
Hi, thanks for reading all my posts and commenting and thanks for also giving your opinion. I really appreciate any opinions that anyone has!

I agree I am probably going faster than most people. I know I am SO CLOSE to being off entirely and part of me feels like I should just hurry up and be done and get it over with.

But the addict part of my personality is scared to death to live life without the protection of Suboxone to make it easier. I am trying so hard to be done but obviously there is something keeping me from jumping off and I can't put my finger on it.


The only thing I can say is that I've formed a really reinforced mental/physical connection that I actually do feel better than usual when I am taking a small dose of Suboxone. Obviously. And the addict part of my brain can't make that switch to just be finished.

Physically it feels like have gotten my body to a point where a tiny tiny dose of Suboxone is holding me just like a full dose used to. Yet every morning comes around and I have always HATED mornings...i get up and feel dreadful about having to face my day. and instead of making the call to just tough out any pending discomfort...I take a dose and within less than 20 mins I'm feeling it the way someone probably feels better to drink a whole bunch of coffee in the morning. (Never been a coffee person it upsets my stomach)

And then, I forget about Suboxone pretty much for most of the day. And sometimes I feel that I have too much energy and immediately I wish I hadnt decided to take Suboxone that day because I wonder if the energy is natural or chemical... Or I get home and start thinking that I wished I just felt "normal" and that I wish the medication would just be out of my system. And I think "tomorrow maybe will be the day I don't feel like I need to take sub anymore" but it isn't yet. Or at least it hasn't been.

If I was a stranger giving myself advice, I think I would tell myself that I need to work on being more present in the mornings to see how I actually feel before just automatically deciding to take medication. I am going to work on that the next few days and try to be in the present moment more instead of just going on autopilot.

Congratulations on your 5 weeks of suboxone therapy! I have nothing but praise for the medication and I think it probably saved my life. You may already know this, but I feel that it's a valuable recovery tool and I don't advocate for everyone eventually tapering off. Glad that you are doing your research and being active in your recovery by posting here!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:28 pm 
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Fish,

I'm like you, not a coffee drinker. The only time I drank coffee was in Basic Training when it was the first "privilege" they gave us on the 2nd week of Basic. I use carbonated caffine...Dt. Coke. :D

Just my thoughts...from my research so far, Suboxone is a very potent medication even in the microgram doses, which is the range used for pain management. So...even though the dose you're currently at is small relative to the doses usually encountered for maintenance, it is still fairly large. I say this just to say that you are probably at a dose that will need further tapering, either by GRADUALLY reducing it, or perhaps skipping 1 or more days (for example, taking it Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, with a longer abstinence over the weekend...just one suggestion). It isn't just mental...there really is a physical component as well; and as so many mention on this board, every single person is different and responds differently.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:57 am 
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Fishy, I have been following your journey recently, and I just wanted to let you know that you are so inspiring.

Keep it up. Thinking about you.
Xo

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"He will cover you with his feathers, and under His wings you will find refuge" - Psalm 91:4
–Robert Green Ingersoll


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Fishy,

I just wanted to say that you are doing so well! You will be able to taper slowly and step off with little discomfort because you are determined, tough, smart and have the right positive attitude.

I remember reading a couple of other people's tapers and when they were at low doses, such as you, they were able to taper a bit more quickly. Of course, you know when you'll be able to drop, but I wanted to encourage you that you may not have to stay at X dose for X amount of days, you know? Either way, at this rate, you'll be off of sub in no time and happy as a fishy in clear, clean water. :)

So, if you feel like it, please keep posting! It's very encouraging to read your story. No pressure to post, I just wanted you to know that we are reading your posts and are here to support you!

Rock on girl!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:56 pm 
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Morphing, Crystal and Bad Kitty,

Thanks so much for all of your support and words of encouragement. It helps me more than you guys ever know!

I guess I sometimes forget that even at the small liquid doses, a dose is still an actual dose.

Today around 930am I took .2mg. I am Wondering should I try to split up my dose now that I am at such low numbers. Is fairly simple to do with the liquid, just requires some thinking on my part.

Going to take a nap right now....


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:57 am 
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So I did take a nap for a couple hours and it was not the best nap ever because I was having dreams about being in WD. :( and I was really really cold.

Ever since I have got below 1mg I am always freezing my ass off. Which is totally out of character, I spent about 5 years of my life being sweaty and hot to the point it was embarrassing and then got to the point it was debilitating. So maybe being cold isn't so bad after all!;)

So after I woke up from my nap, I had the familiar feeling that I wanted to dose to get my brain up and running since we had to go to a birthday dinner with family tonight. But I made myself wait a bit while I got ready and I decided that since I had only taken a dose of .2mg earlier in the morning, it wouldn't be going off the taper if I dosed just .06 before dinner. (Keeping at the .26 step i am currently at in my taper) so, I did, and I didn't feel much different but it felt good too get some food in me and I would say I felt pretty darn good all day.

Dr. Junig has recommended in multiple posts that dosing at shorter intervals once a person gets to these low doses can help immensely. I think I am going to try this for awhile, of course without going over whatever dose I am at in my taper.

I have been taking a break from my usual exercise regimen. Its usually some combo of 2-4x a week hot yoga, lots of practicing at home different yoga poses (sometimes just stretches!) And doing strengthening exercises like planks and pushups, 3 mile walks, and running my hardest for 1-2 miles a couple times a week. This had been making me feel like a million bucks. This was my priority in life for the last 8 months. And i think it helped me immensely.

And then I got all obsessed with the taper and the exercise got pushed to the back burner.

Tomorrow I am going to start back up at this exercise regimen again. Maybe ease into it, but at least make sure I'm getting my heart rate up and the sweat pouring everyday.

I think if I can change my focus from how the taper is making me feel to making sure I'm using exercise to get those blown out endorphins back to optimal health, that might help me in my taper more than anything.

Oh and also I'm real excited I got my mountain bike back in the bike shop right now getting tuned up and ready to rock! Then I'd like to start riding the 4 miles to work a few days a week and just taking nice bike rides in the evenings on the nice paths around my house! So I'm ready and excited about that, I've always loved to ride, and even used that old bike as my only means of transportation for almost a year at one point! Back in my healthy days! ;)

However, the biggest thing I feel bad about during this time in my life right now.... I really don't enjoy socializing. I don't enjoy going out to meet friends for drinks (I don't drink, I can't drink, I've tried and it doesn't give me any happy feelings or loss of inhibition or desire to relax and have fun. None.) I feel like I am grumpy a lot with my husband and my mom over little things. Like I am just not a happy person right now. I know this is most likely a result of going through a taper and all the changes in my brain taking place. I keep telling myself it WILL get better. I can get through this.

I think exercise will help me again as it has in the past. I think I got complacent with my exercise as a result of tapering too fast and then becoming hyper focused on how I was feeling as a result of the taper.

Any suggestions? I want to keep going with my taper until I'm no longer requiring a dose to get my ass up and moving for the day. I am hoping that as I stay at each low dose my body will heal and get used to having less and less suboxone and eventually it will just very like time to quit.

Evolved revolver highly suggests that I start supplementing with the b6 and l-tyrosine, which I will do as soon as it gets here from my online order.

In the meantime, this week i am planning to stay at .26mg, splitting the dose...I am feeling hopeful that with a good hard week of exercise to JumpStart the endorphins, and then adding in the supplements.... I'm hopeful I will have a better attitude about life and a new perspective on my taper.

Any other thoughts? Thanks for reading and thanks for the support!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:57 am 
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My biggest suggestion is to try to relax a little bit about how you feel, and what you are going to do next. You do need to have a plan, but it shouldn't be something you think about constantly. Give yourself a break when you aren't feeling 100%, or aren't the ball of sunshine you think you should be. Tapers are physically and emotionally draining, and you probably won't feel back to normal for a couple months after you jump. Talk with your husband, and be sure he understands that you will get better, it just takes some time and patience.

I would trust evolved's suggestions on the supplements, and getting back in a routine with your exercise will help a lot.

This is all a part of the process, and you can't rush it.

Maybe today you can try to focus on a few of the areas that you are happy with in your life right now. Think about which parts of your day to day existence have improved since you started tapering and use that as motivation. Look at how much you have learned just in the last few weeks! You have a few more tools in your toolbox today than you did a month ago. :D

Q

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