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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:54 pm 
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My name is Jeff and this is my first post, I broke my neck 2 years ago and was takeing 90 to 100 mg of hydro-oxy codone daily up until about 6 weeks ago. I tried methadone for about a month but it seemed to strong for me,I was pain free but could not work on it, I went to see a doctor last monday and he put me on suboxone 8mg twice a day but didnt tell me I had to put them under my tongue, just told me to take them. Doc also gave me 10mg valium and 400mg gabba pentin. any way, withdrawls have been terrable, yesturday I found out I supposed to put this under my tongue so I broke 1 in half and put it under my tongue. After about 20 minutes I got super hot in my chest and cold sweats,blurred vision, and now am scared to take it, is this normal or was I prescibed to much for the amount of pills I was taking?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:44 pm 
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JB -

WHOA there... first welcome to this forum. I'm sure you will get others to advise you. I am not a doctor, but am very familiar with pain clinics, methadone, etc.

It might help us a bit if we had some more details.

1- are you on ANY opiates now (oxycodone, oxycontin, perc, vicodin, lortab, methadone etc.) - any?
2- Suboxone - 8mg twice a day is not out of bounds from what I have seen.

Search through this forum. You will find various clips, and the link to the blog suboxonetalkzone will also have information.

It is my understanding, that if you are on ANY opiate, at all - then taking Suboxone can cause precipitated withdrawal. I was advised to be 24 hours without short acting opiates. If you are on any methadone, you would need to stop that medication for longer - Probably a few days - but search the forum - it will tell you specifically on some posting.

If you are in withdrawal of opiates, then taking 1/2 of an 8mg pill under your tongue, or dry-mouth-crushed up - paint on gums, and under tongue method (suboxdoc method) - you should find relief of the withdrawal symptoms over time. In my case I was given 12 MG's, and it took about 2 hours with 8mg total to get the withdrawal's to relax - and I felt 'normal'.

Again, what you don't want is any opiate in your system (such as taking a lortab, or methadone) - then taking suboxone right after. You can have precipitated withdrawal from that.

It is important to understand that suboxone can only be absorbed sublingually (in the mouth). If you snort/shoot it up - then the naloxone in the medication will put you into full withdrawals. If you let it dissolve under the tongue, in the mouth (hold the spit in there for 15 mins) - then you will get the full potency.

As for your exact symptoms - I don't know if others have had that or not. I had a slight headache after - and after a couple of days - it's just 'normal.' It's great to live without the cravings, and I can get on with my trigger points, and get stable.

Best wishes to you. Welcome!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:59 pm 
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JB-

It would be nice to know who your doctor is because what he did to you should be criminal. I am going to be honest, I do not think you will get the pain relief from Suboxone,valium, and Gabapentin- caution should be used when mixing Suboxone and valium. I am not a doctor and do not feel comfortable telling you how much medication you should take, but ultimately I feel your situation warrants seeing a new doctor. There are a few reasons- First, he did not properly induce you to the Suboxone treatment and caused you to go into withdrawal, second he gave you a combination of drugs that is quite risky for your condition. Let's say the Suboxone does not provide any pain relief and you take more of it, the valium together and fall asleep never to wake up.Yes, it is that serious.Please for your sake, find a better physician.

If you need assistance locating a new doctor, let us know.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:02 pm 
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I got this doctor from the Suboxone referral website in Omaha Neb, His name is Dr Cook at Midwest pain clinic. I've heard allot of good things about Suboxone, but I tell you I feel worse now (emotionally) and fiscally then I felt for a long time. Light headed dizzy, nauseas, depressed, lost. Thank You for your concern, and if anybody know a better Doctor in my area I would appreciate it. Thanks JB


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 Post subject: Find better advice!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:00 am 
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Hi JB,
I like the others am NOT a Dr. And won't advise on your meds. I will however let you know my exoerience with suboxone..... I was on 300-350mgs of oxycodone / day when i got into my subox treatment. I was given 2mgs / hr. IN THE DR. OFFICE . SO HE COULD WATCH HOW i WAS DOING.. Before he would start me on the suboxone I had to be off all opiates for 24hrs. and he told me to throw my valium RX away as it was to dangerous to mix with the subox. I hope you find better medical advise that you got from this DR. From where I sit he has not taken very good care of you???
The way he gave you the meds. could have put you into percipitated W/D's and from what I am told that is much worse than regular withdrawls!!! I Wish you luck in finding a better / more responsible Dr. Thay are out there you just need to keep looking.
FYI I am on 16mgs/day of Suboxone and have been for 10 months. I feel great!!
Good Luck

God Bless
TW


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Hello again; Well I have been puking on and off all day today and so I went back to the doctor and told him whats going on with the way I feel on suboxone. He told me I must be alerjeck to the other stuff in it and put me back on methadone tablets this time. does anyone know how long I should wait to go back on Methadone?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Now I'm not a doctor, but, I think you could start it right away. Suboxone will block its effects though. The precepitated withdrawal is when you take Suboxone with another opiate in your system, not the other way around.

It will block (depending on your Suboxone dose) for about 72 hours to 1 week.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:02 am 
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Hey JB -

Man, I am sorry to hear this for you. Do you trust this doc? Methadone is a serious medicine, in that it is long acting opiate - but unlike suboxone it doesn't have a ceiling. It builds up in your system to block the opiate receptors long term. The half life (compared to oxycodone, lortab - half life is about 4 hours) is about 24 hours. It takes time to build up - and you can overdose if you don't titrate it slowly. Start small, titrate 5%-10% per month. Your doctor should be telling you all of this - as I'm NOT a doctor and have just sat in Pain Clinics and had this explained.

I'm not trying to be nosy, and you were on a big dose of other opiates prior to methadone, but - WOW - be sure as the Suboxone wears off, and the methadone picks up - you are happy with the how they 'titrate you up' on methadone.

Given the doc just "gave you suboxone' without any instructions - so you swallowed them, how is he instructing you with methadone?

Please hang in there. As the suboxone wears out of your system, you can replace the opiate receptors with methadone, but it may be slower than your comfort level -or w/d's...

If you are leaving suboxone - for methadone, it will be a slow process for relief. I hate to say this, but are they giving you anything for the 'breakthrough' pain? For most of us, that's a BAD thing - as we can't stop with just one ... But, if you are being treated for pain - then they should put a pretty clear path together for you.

We live this life every day at my house with my wife. Methadone is a good pain controller over time, and helps people in different ways than suboxone.

Anyway JB - good luck going off Sub, on Methadone, etc... Sounds like you have been put on a mighty ROUGH PATH.

Don't know if this helps at all... I'm no doctor - but sounds like you might need to take control of your own health a little by educating yourself about methadone, titration, expectations, etc.

Hang in there!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:28 am 
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His response brings another point that I didn't really think about stupidly.

If you start popping methadone while suboxone is in your system, and the suboxone wears off, you could DIE. I don't know what the doctor told you to do (or maybe he didn't?). Be careful! Methadone builds up slowly and if you are careless, you could get a mega dose in you that Buprenorphine would block, and as the Bupe wears off, the Methadone kicks in, and perhaps that dose you reached could be a fatal dose! BE CAREFUL. Did the doctor give you any instructions? SOme of them don't know much about Methadone (nor do I, never have been on it). I have a friend who takes it and it works very well for him, he's a pain patient.

Talk to your doctor.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:37 am 
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WOW!!! your doctor is.._______(fill in blank) jeez O man! So from what you have said my guess is you still had methadone in your system when you started subs...so you got the D/T's You should of been without meth. for at least 48 hrs before starting subs, and 2nd you SHOULD of started with subutex, since you were on long-acting opiates, then after a few days/ weeks, you should of gone on the suboxone. And 3rd Jamez is right...you could end up taking more and more methadone over the next few days or even a week, then when the subs wear off you could OD, and DIE. so be very, very careful. For my 2 cents I think you should get a new doctor, and tell someone about your current doctor. I almost died because a doctor gave me 1 script, then another referred doctor game me a 2nd, both were filled at the same pharmacy, and I almost died...so BE CAREFUL!!!!!
Good Night Forum

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:42 pm 
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I was on methadone before going onto Suboxone, and had to wait 3 - 4 days before taking my first dose of Suboxone. Basically I had to wait until the real withdrawals off the methadone were setting in before taking my first Suboxone. If you took methadone earlier that day, or the day before your first Suboxone does, it could send you right into serious withdrawal.

I second the idea of finding a different doc. I am not 100% sure, but I think doctors ask to be posted on the Suboxone site, as I have found some quacks on there. The Suboxone manufacturer does not seek them out to place them on the site. Your doctor should have waited at least 3 days before having you take your first dose of Suboxone, and to be extra-safe, he should have started you with a micro-dose of Subutex in his office to see how you would react. Just throwing his hands up and saying you have an allergy seems kind of wrong to me, but as others have said, I am not a doctor.


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