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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:52 pm 
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Hello if anyone is listening...
I've been reading a lot around this site and glad it's here. Anyway I'm a bit anxious atm so lets get to my question. I can give more details about myself as this progresses.

I 'usually' use 100+/- mg oxy/day. Also 2 mg Xanax at night.
After reading a bunch here I finally got the nerve to quit. ( I'm family man and self employed). I say nerve because past few months I really can only take oxy to stave off w/d.
I can't afford a week in bed, nor having wife find out.
About 6-8 months ago I got 5 8/2 sublingual suboxone. Since identity #s were cut off packages(thus open) I put in script bottle with one of those dryer things.
I weaned myself to approx 50 mg/day last week and took my last dose Sunday night at 7 pm. I stayed home "sick" Monday(haven't missed a dose in a year or so) and took some extra Xanax and slept most of day.
I didn't feel too bad but I don't deal well with w/d... I got through the night and started feeling pretty crappy.
At 8 am (now 32 hrs) and shitty I took my first slice of sub, maybe 1 mg. to see if I was going to avoid p/wd.
Nothing. Good. Took one more sliver.

I gotta tell ya... By 10:30, I... was a new man.
No wds.
No Pwds.
Even lunch was good!

I worked the rest of day pretty happy. I felt some wd coming on my way home about 5:30, pulled over and did aprx 1.5 mg sliver.
I had an amazing night(considering no oxy for 2days)
I was feeling wide awake and comfortable so I felt ok taking the 2 mg Xanax.
They didn't do much, as I didn't feel "high" but I was kinda "high" that I found a way off the fckn oxy!
Woo-hoo...!!

I told myself, I said self


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Hi Newquiter and welcome here!

May I ask why you have never sought treatment from a certified Suboxone doctor? Is it insurance and or the cost? If you get caught with some films w/o a script you are in deep trouble.

Once you give us some history of use, age, so forth, we can give suggestions about what to do. Unfortunately, you didn't post much information to work with.

For now, all we can do is welcome you here and wait for more info. Read some older posts and you'll learn a great deal about Suboxone and what this forum is all about.

rule

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:13 pm 
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Oops hit submit.

I said, "self, if you feel this OK.. Do a little less tomorrow,"

Well today is tomorrow. And I don't feel so well. :--/
I took 1+mg at 8am and by 10 I was feeling kinda shitty. So again I said, "self, go take a lil snip more"

So I did. And within 5 min I got pretty anxious, sweaty....Scared.
I'm not used to messin with this stuff so I worry.

WORST is I kinda lost that lil HOPE I had of "sneaking" myself clean.

I have 1 ½ strips and Was intending on tapering off the subs.

I've quit cigarettes and two years ago quit booze so I know the desire needed to quit.

But now I'm a bit scared of the subs. What's going on? Its hard to try again.
Should I take a Xanax before I dose?
I have to go to a meeting at 5 and can't be all wigged out.

Someone help please with info.
I was thinking so happy last night(cept for not sleeping until 3-4am, that's how I could feel the strength of the sub) that this could finally end, somewhat painlessly.

Anyone?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:22 pm 
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I'm 45. Married with 2 kids 6&8.

I don't want my family to know. Please don't judge THAT. I know, support, safety, ect.

But I prefer to suffer this alone and am determined to kick.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Hey Newquiter!!

Welcome to the forum and I really hope u stick around, sounds like ur alone in this and that itself can be challenging. I have been on sub for a few yrs and when I first started taking it I was on oxycodone too and taking well over 100mg a day. My dose started out at 8 mg the day of the induction and then 16 every day after that and I never got sick or had any withdrawal symptoms. I've since tapered to 8. My concern for u is that maybe ur not taking enough for the amount of opiates ur used to taking. I know ur doing it with a limited number of strips, but when u first start taking sub, it's important to take enough so that withdrawal and cravings are gone. It's also important to take the same dose so that ur body can adjust and ur not jumping all over the place. I'm definitely not a Dr, so this is just a few reasons I think why ur not feeling the best....I can't tell ya for sure why ur feeling bad. Would u consider going to a Dr that will give u a script for sub?

I think u waited a good amount of time between ur last opiate and suboxone so at least u didn't get pw. I'm not sure what's exactly making u feel this way except that imo ur not taking enough to keep the withdrawal away....if ur dose of oxy was usually around 100mg.

I hope this works out the way u want it to. Suboxone is a lifesaver and has truly made my life worth living again. But taking it short term to just get through the withdrawal, I have no experience with. Keep us posted and good luck!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:12 pm 
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Got thru my meeting without dosing (was running late). Not to bad during meeting but feeling not well now.

I'm very worried about taking sub dose. Should I just start small and keep adding?
Seems obvious but...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:12 am 
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Hey Newquiter,
Welcome to the forum!
Jenn is exactly right. You aren't taking enough Sub. You have to fill your receptors up, especially when you first start. Dr's normally give you 16mgs at induction. I think you should at least take 4 to 8mgs. You are going to have to get more Subs in my opinion. You really need to find you a Dr. ASAP!
You need to get in a treatment program. It's not bad at all to go to a Dr.. And as Rule said, if you would happen to get caught with them, it's bad news, then your family will find out. So do yourself a favor and get to a Dr.
Good luck
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:31 am 
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OK.. I went through the night and actually slept. I was afraid if I dosed late after my meeting 7:30pm, I'd be up most of the night again.

So this morning I slowly,sliver by sliver finished my 1st strip being about 2mg.

I know y'all recommend more but I don't want to trade one drug for another. I will try very hard not to dose tonight and do a full 2mg tomorrow am.

From there.. I REALLY want to taper 3-4 days off the sub.
From what I've read on this site, any W/D from the oxy should be past.
Now I just have to deal with minor, general crappiness from sub? Or is using so little so short going to make it more bearable?

I fully understand that I have to pay the Piper at sometime and I figure that will be the depression and psychological issues.

Best thing... 1st time in 2 years.... 4½ days without oxycodone!
I will check back in at lunch. Doing THIS helps a lot.
Sorry I'm pretty boring for y'all, But...

Thanks for caring for this stranger.
-NQ


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:48 am 
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Hey New :)

Well I definitely hope u feel better today than yesterday. I have zero experience with using sub as a short taper, so I won't be able to give ya any advice or what to expect. I do know, as I'm sure ur aware of the cravings that will come after u stop the suboxone. How are u prepared to deal with those? During my active addiction, I was able to stop using at times, but the depression and cravings got me every time. Since u haven't went even a week since u have been using, do u know what to expect? Just being completely honest with u, it'll be pretty intense for a bit. I'm not trying to be a "Debbie Downer" and get ya worried or anything, just want ya to have a recovery plan in place when u stop the sub. U will definitely need one. Some ppl have cravings and anxiety worse than others, but we all have them. U can go to an addiction counselor, or get to some meetings.

I wish u the absolute best and cheering u on the whole way. This is a hard thing to do, and ur definitely in the right place for support here. Please keep us updated on ur journey!!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Ha. Cravings. Yea.

Although I think I found right dose with subs to work and function, I DO feel a bit ummm... Crave-y, but not too bad.
The BEST thing is that I have that HOPE back.

I'm not too sure what was going on yesterday but I think with alll the reading and info, I was just really nervous (esp when EVERY suboxone site has

"YOU CAN DIE...!!"

in every other paragraph!)

But you are right. I have no plan for the cravings as I'm completely focused on a 'functional detox'.
Some added suggestions will help for sure. But I figured simply NOT HAVING them will help. Dont get me wrong... I'm sure the time will come when that infamous text will come.
With cigarettes, I just told myself, it will pass.
Again I worry more about what I've read about depression and getting back to what I used to be without pills. The horror stories on these sites can really get to ya.

I jump on later to get thru urge to dose again today.
Really I should not HAVE TO, right? With sub so long of half life?
Thanks for your help. Really.
-NQ


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:11 pm 
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Hey Newquiter,
I too, don't have any experience with a short taper with Subs. So I can't give you any pointers either. I was like the "ole" owl in the Tootsie Pop commercial. I could go about 3 days before I bit into an opiate. lol
And stay off those negative websites like Subsux website. Suboxone is a great medicince. We all on here don't consider Suboxone as just another drug to switch to.
I have been using for a long long, long time and Subs to me is just like taking my BP medicine.
You just need to be prepared for what is to come. You know, being without any kind of opiate.
Your mind will definitely play a vicious game with you when it comes to this addiction.
I do wish you luck with what ever you decide. I hope you will be one of the lucky ones and get completely away from addiction. At least ring in here, and let us know how you are doing from time to time. We are all in this together and we all try to share information with each other and even become sort of friends on here and we even worry about each other too. We are "One Big Family"
Good luck
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:50 pm 
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Hey Newquiter, I have to say, you make me nervous! First, it is very dangerous to take benzos with suboxone. I wish that one of our Doctors would comment on this so you will more fully undersyand my concern. Especially since you are not under a doctors care! Second, you will have withdrawl no matter what you do. The beauty of suboxone is that it handles all those horrible symptoms of withdrawl and gets ride of the cravings. Please, go to a doctor! Get a legal script so you are not engaging in the same behavior of taking drugs illegally. Please, please, please...stay here on this forum whatever you decide to do! It is great to have you here and we will be with you every step of the way!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:28 pm 
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Uhhggg... Feeling pretty crappy.
But I'm torn between dosing or riding it out.

I thought subs lasted longer??
I felt pretty good today but it isn't lasting.

Or is it. and I'm looking for excuse to dose?

I'm trying to ride that fine line of tapering yet not be unable to function.
I don't understand why last night was easier to get by with one morning dose.

I'm going this route to avoid feeling this bad.
Should I dose ½ what I did this morning?

I don't like saying I, I, I, me me. But I'm a little bit confused and alot bit grumpy...!

Suggestions?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:45 pm 
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Newquitter,
It's about getting your receptors full right now is why you feel so bad at times. This is what we all are trying to tell you. It's about trying to get stabilized and it takes a couple of weeks to even do that. I am not trying to discourage you in any way. I don't know enough about trying to taper and quit Subs so fast. I wished some more people would chime in to give their advice.
We all don't want to see you relapse in any way. Please consider at least calling a Dr. and maybe you could stretch this taper out to a couple weeks to a month. I know you don't want to trade one drug for another, but the amount of Oxy you were taking and how long is going to play a role in this.
Just trying to help
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Someone will come along with more knowledge about this than I have but I can tell you your sub dose needs to be above the dosage of your drug of choice.
There is a formula for this. You must increase the dosage of suboxone to the point that you have no wd symptoms AND no cravings. If you take 2mgs and within 4 hours you are having symptoms or cravings you need more. Take 2mgs and see if you get relief. You will need to continue with this until you can say that you have no feeling of wd or craving for your doc. This is why you need to have a good sub doctor. It is really difficult for anyone here to help you if you are going rouge as without enough suboxone you are going to feel bad again and want to use. I hope you can understand what I am saying and that you find a sub doc to help you. It is completely anonymous and no one would need to know. I am a social worker working in the field of addiction and only my husband and one close friend know of my sub use. Good Luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:59 pm 
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I'm gonna try to explain this even though I'm not familiar with doses lower than 8mg. But sub has a ceiling effect and that's usually imo around 4-6mg. The amount of suboxone ur taking is below the ceiling level and it doesn't last as long and wears off quicker. I hope someone else who's familiar with the lower doses chimes in cause me and happy are not exactly expirienced in lower doses or quick tapering lol :) But ur not gonna have relief like most ppl on sub do if u don't raise ur dose to cover ur withdrawal. Ur body may finally adjust but not quick like ur wanting it to I don't think. Dosing twice a day would definitely help I'd think.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Im going to have to face you're right..
BUT... TECHNICALLY I'm wd'ing from oxy atm. Correct? Subs help that.
When HEAVY oxy wds should be clear I SHOULD be able to deal with the minimal sub wd from such low use?

I really HATE being one of those stubborn, do it my way members. But... Please understand I limited to enough sub to cover oxy detoxing.

Anyway. Gtg be daddy. I took a mg for tonight. Maybe skip tomorrow...?

Thanks for being concerned you are really helping.

-NQ


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:17 pm 
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Skip night dose I mean...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:58 pm 
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Bottom line is we are afraid you are going to run out of Subs before you get this all straighten out. What you are doing is very hard and we are not trying to discourage you in any way. This addiction stuff is really hard to deal with. You haven't gotten to the hard part yet. I really hope you will prove me wrong in this. I am rooting for you, we all are! So please don't take offence to what I am saying. I am only trying to help. Just have a backup plan if things start getting tougher than they already are.
I'll shut up now! lol
Happy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Well well well...

I think WE have finally found that magic amount.
About an hour after taking exactly 1mg this evening... I felt/FEEL absolutely normal. Today was 85-90% "normal"... But with the evening booster, I think I reached the point for which this medicine is made.

Truely amazing. Thank you for helping me through this week's scary part!

So now... My plan:
(and yes I am going to come up a bit short on the subs)

Tomorrow, I'm going to Confidently take 2 mg in the morning and then 1g in the evening.
I'd push myself to drop (and probably should). But I figure with the coming " storm ", it may be Mentally beneficial to have at least one --true happy "healthy" day.

I've divided up my last strip into 8 pcs. After tonight that left 7.
Tomorrow takes 3.
Then Saturday its back to, most likely, mild wds.
So with the 4 remaining, Saturday I will do 1 mg in am, then ½ pm.

From there I will have to play it by ear... But I plan on:
Sunday just 1. (Midday?)
Monday just 1.
Tuesday .5
I may skip Monday completely.

Then...
I anticipate that whole new ballgame of hell--(w/d's, depression, cravings, (oh my...)),
Which I fully plan on sharing with y'all.

BUT... Theoretically, thats about 8 days without oxy and clear of the BRUNT of THOSE withdrawals...

Ummm... So I heard? :--\

I know you guys (Jenn, Happy) can't answer THAT exact item, but maybe in the next day or so, someone with this experience will drop a note about a quick sub taper.

So...
I will then be crutchless, wobbling around on my own two legs.

Its Scary.
Scary like when you start to see that UGLY Orange Bottom of the script bottle with a full WEEK still to go, until that bottom is hidden again.

I know, I know. Go see a Dr and get a script. But please understand, that defeats MY whole purpose.
-I know for a fact that -I- would just be trading one pill for another.

And I REALLY think that if I DID have just one more film, I May get quagmired into a full SUB detox and w/d.

Maybe you guys have a network of help here (that I don't) for this issue?

This is all worth a shot anyway, I figure.

So let's see.

Thanks again,
-NQ


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