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 Post subject: First day off subs
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:42 pm 
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I'll try to be brief here....I was on 24mg per day for 19 months. In Dec I got kicked out of the sub program for testing + for weed. The doc gave me 90 of the 8mg subs and I was on my own to taper. I've tried other sub docs here, no one accepting new patients or none took my ins. So I've just been cutting down the films little by little. I have no idea the exact mg, I just went from doing 3 of the 8mg subs a day to 2 a day to 1 a day and then 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, etc. For the past few days I had maybe 1/8 in the morning. Yesterday was the last one. I could not have cut it down any smaller.
I do have clonodine and just took one, along with a vistaril (anti nausea).
I can't take the chills! And my legs hurt so bad. My husband said he thinks he has a Lyrica somewhere so hopefully that helps if I take it. I don't feel absolutely horrible, but I don't feel good at all.
Right now, I'm not feeling the horrible w/d like from Oxy or percs. Not even close. But will it get worse? Will I get to that point of being in total withdrawal?? My mind is wandering. I don't want to ever go back to the opiate addiction but honestly right now if someone offered me any narcotic pain pill I'd take it. UGH. I hate myself for saying that! What did I do? I can't believe I lost out on subs because I smoked weed a couple of times. I thought I'd be okay, I thought I could be stronger. But the chills and the continuous yawning and leg pain - it's aweful.
Any advice?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:09 pm 
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I have 4 of the 75mg Lyrica and 5 Ultrams (tramadol) in the house as well as maybe 5 or 6 of the 1.0 clonodines.
So far, one clonodine hasn't done anything at all. I just took one Lyrica. Will the Ultram work on the resltess legs/chills/yawning?
I'm really hating myself right now. I have a little boy who just wants me to play and I can't even function! The chills are the worst! The temp here is 16 with snow, so that doesn't help.
How can I space out what I do have on hand to get through the next few days?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Greetings, I am sorry nobody has replied to your post. I feel for you friend. I hope you can make it thru the worst of the WD and in just a few more days you will start to feel much much better. I know there will be some really great advise for you as soon as the wonderful people on this forum see your post. Until then take some hot bathes as often as you like. Try some epom salt in the tub. This will help with all of your symptoms temporarily. Make sure to keep hydrated and eat really really healthy. If at all possible, go for short walks. It WILL help even though it is the farthest thing from your mind right now. Sip on some sleepytime tea to help you relax. Hang tough.. & try to be positive.. Just think of what it will be like to be completely free of opiates... Wish I had more to offer..Blessings to you & yours


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Wow Kind of surprising to me but I am on methadone and I have envied suboxone clients for not having to deal with clinic crap..I don't often hear horror stories of clients being kicked to the curb for breaking a rule and it being for pot. At my clinic you can smoke pot all day long you just don't get take homes until you get three clean UA;s in a row. They flat out agree to not kick any client out for any drug abuse without many tries and fails. I know this one client that was after a year of cocaine in his drug screens was put on contract and he would clean up for a month or two and then flunk then he did this for over another year and they finally let him go and he came back six weeks later as a new admit. He is still struggling but they are still working with him. I mean what is the deal? Is it dangerous to relapse on Pot and be on suboxone? I understand the benzo thing because there is some danger involved, but pot?

You just got kicked to the curb for being an addict???? Does that not seem weird since that is what you are seeing the doctor for in the first place. I mean if it was a pain managment clinic then....but you are an addict. You are being treated for being an addict. You did something we addicts do a lot we RELAPSE. And you relapsed on a drug that really is of no liability for dangerous complications. WHY ARE THESE DOCTORS EVEN IN THE FIELD OF ADDICTION. Stop prescribing insulin and throw a diabetic out of their doctors office for eating too much pie. WTF

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:55 am 
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Yeah it's absolutely shocking. The general medical consensus is that even if a recovering addict on Suboxone uses drugs occasionally... it's still successful treatment if there's a big reduction in use. Which there is most of the time. So it pains me to hear these stories of clinics with such oldschool dated ideas with recovery.

As for the withdrawal. Your tapering situation was far from ideal. But you've done SO well thus far considering. Even if withdrawals get worse, you can't lose sight of how far you've come.

Suboxone is such an unpredictable drug. In some people, jumping off 1mg can be cruisy. Others it can be difficult. It can be hard to predict. In my experience, bupe withdrawal peaked from days 5-8, then by day 12-13 I felt like I'd landed. I was jumping off 6+ those times though.

Don't be disappointed in yourself if you think you couldn't refuse a pill. That's so normal in withdrawal. Your brain is wanting the thing it's been dependent on for a while. But it doesn't need it!

I'm sure you know the withdrawal drill by now. It's important to remind yourself through it that you will be better, and that opioid detox may feel painful, but it doesn't kill you. It may sound masochistic... but the pain is actually healthy.

I'd advise you ask someone to take you somewhere safe the moment you feel tempted to use, somewhere it's difficult to use. Can you afford to go to a rehab program? I'd hugely suggest something like that given your circumstances of the forced taper, even if it is immediately post-detox.

Stick around, and let us know how the withdrawal pans out for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:19 am 
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Thanks very much for the replies. Yeah, it's pretty shitty what happened. My last appt was on a sat morning the first week of Dec. I had been getting called in for randoms every week, and she did tell me it was for weed but she could see the levels going down? Okay, I was smoking maybe a hit a day. It helps me eat and sleep and I'd had a bad car accident and cancer scare (it's all good now though - the pancreatic lesions are not growing and we'll put off further testing for 6 months). Anyway, the sub doc told me if I could get a rx for medical marijuana she'd be okay with it. There are not docs here who rx it though. IMHO, I'd rather toke than pop a pill for anxiety. So at that visit, she said I had to go into a treatment program .... out pt, not in pt. She said she would *hold my spot* for 30 days. I was to make an appt and call her secretary who would confirm I did start treatment (I'm guessing she meant a 5 day a week thing?). So I get my reg rx for 90 subs and leave. On Monday I started calling places to get into...waiting to hear back from ins, etc etc, and I get a letter in the mail from the sub doc discharging me from the practice for not following the rules and smoking weed. WTF? She totally lied on Sat! I guess she didn't have the guts to tell me to my face I couldn't come back? Maybe she's had a problem in the past with another pt freaking out on her, that's fine but that's not me! If she had been honest I would've asked for help with other meds and asked for a taper schedule. But no, she led me to believe I'd be coming back in 30 days as long as I went to some treatment crap. BTW, in the 19 months I was with this doc, she never once told me I needed any out pt treatment! UGH! My anger about it doesn't help me right now.
I'm on day 4 and what I can't get past is that I feel the need to put something, anything into my mouth...or up my nose :/ The wd's are not horrible, my legs won't quit hurting, continuous yawning and the CHILLS are just so bad my teeth won't stop chattering. But it's nothing compared to OC detox. I'm grateful for that. But I just can't function. My husband has taken a few days off of work becuase I'm really shakey and dizzy. I know I have to tough it out. I'm totally jonesing for a pill right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:54 pm 
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That's really crappy situation luckily for me my doc doesn't care about weed in the UA. Then again the cops dont even care if you have under a oz. But if I were you I'd take bunch of hot baths always killed all withdrawal symptoms


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 Post subject: I caved :(
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:16 pm 
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I'm not proud of this, but if anything I'm honest. I just went and found some lortabs. GGRRRR!!! The weather isn't helping, freezing rain and bone chilling cold and my husband can't take any more days off to babysit my sorry ass. I need to be able to function. Checking in to rehab or detox isn't an option for me right now.
I feel physically better, the chills and yawning and leg pain is gone. But mentally I know I just fucked up. Big time. God, addiction SUCKS. It's been so long, maybe I don't know any other way of life.
Tomorrow I start calling places again. There are no sub docs in my town either taking new patients or my insurance, so I'll start looking a bit further away. I have to get back on them and learn ways to deal with this. Why didn't my sub doc make me go to treatment MONTHS ago? Why did she wait till I've been clean off opiates for over a year, but smoked weed and then decided I needed more help? Then back out on her word to let me stay in the program? I'm not looking to place blame on anyone but myself, I knew I wasn't supposed to smoke but I did. But the whole way she went about kicking me to the curb was really pretty shitty. I've had NO opiates in me since this time last year after hip surgery which she knew about. One year without a + ua for opiates, and I get kicked out for MJ. Doesn't seem right.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Wait, I take that back. Last summer she claimed I had dilaudid in a ua. I didn't take dilaudid or anything. She didn't believe me. So yeah, ONE positive ua for opiates in one year. And I didn't even do it but still one positive in a year and I get kicked out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Do you have any Subs left? I did a similar thing, rapidly tapered to 0.5mg and then jumped and felt like shit, and then caved after 3 days. I ended up going back on 0.5mg for close to a month. It was enough to get me through the day, but at the same time it allowed the large amount of Sub I had stacked up in my system to clear out. When I jumped from 0.5mg the second time it was MUCH easier. I felt exhausted and had some chills and stomach issues, but it wasn't full out WD. It was bearable. The hardest part was that although it wasn't intense it lasted about 2 1/2 weeks, which felt like forever. And even after that I didn't feel 100%. But you just have to persevere. And don't kick yourself for using. At the end of the day we're still addicts. I have had a couple of opportunities to use painkillers since I have been off, and I took them. So for me I decided I needed outside help or I would be back on that slippery slope. I now go to NA meetings and have a sponsor. Whatever kind of support you can surround yourself with will help. Remember, an addict alone is in bad company.
Best of luck,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Lillyval wrote:
Do you have any Subs left? I did a similar thing, rapidly tapered to 0.5mg and then jumped and felt like shit, and then caved after 3 days. I ended up going back on 0.5mg for close to a month. It was enough to get me through the day, but at the same time it allowed the large amount of Sub I had stacked up in my system to clear out. When I jumped from 0.5mg the second time it was MUCH easier. I felt exhausted and had some chills and stomach issues, but it wasn't full out WD. It was bearable. The hardest part was that although it wasn't intense it lasted about 2 1/2 weeks, which felt like forever. And even after that I didn't feel 100%. But you just have to persevere. And don't kick yourself for using. At the end of the day we're still addicts. I have had a couple of opportunities to use painkillers since I have been off, and I took them. So for me I decided I needed outside help or I would be back on that slippery slope. I now go to NA meetings and have a sponsor. Whatever kind of support you can surround yourself with will help. Remember, an addict alone is in bad company.
Best of luck,
Lilly


No, I haven't had any subs since Sat. I was given 90 of the 8mg films on Dec 3 and have been just cutting down until I couldn't cut them down any more. You're absolutely correct, I need some sort of help if I ever want to get clean, really clean. I've realized that too late. My doc was just an occupational medicine doc who had fda or whatever permission to write suboxone rx's, she wasn't anything more than that. Nothing wrong with that, but I wish she had made me realize like a yr ago that I needed some counseling or whatever along with the subs. All she did was write the script every month and that was it. I'm not stupid and I should've known this. Now i've got lortabs and I'm already worried about when they run out. It's crazy. Yeah I'm an addict, I don't deny it. But 15 years ago when pain clinics popped up everywhere and I could get 180 lorcets, 100 xans and 100 somas every 3 weeks for legit pain that turned into a legit addiction .... I didn't have the knowledge I have now. Because they just kept refilling and refilling and it took more and more to get high. And I'm a nurse. I should've known better.


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