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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Hello everyone, today is my first day back on subs after a 4 month dope binge. My usual dose is very small, like 0.5-1mg a day. I've taken at least 3mg so far and am still feeling pretty achy, but mentally I feel a lot better. It's been over 24 hours now and I took a tiny piece of sub at around 20 hours because I was definitely over 26 on the COWS scale. It gave a little relief, but I still have RLS and back aches that would usually be completely taken out by the subs. Is this normal for your first day back on? Should I take more subs or just wait until my morning dose? I definitely didn't go through precipitated withdrawal, but I still feel a bit shitty. I guess I'm here for advice, someone to talk to, and to learn. I only have 1 and a half 8mg subutex in my possession. I was thinking of taking 1mg a day then taper quickly so when I run out I'll be completely over the dope withdrawal and the sub withdrawal should be pretty light.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:10 pm 
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I don't think you will feel better if you take more buprenorphine now, because I think your problem is likely more from 'tolerance mis-match' than from a lack of buprenorphine. When you start buprenorphine your tolerance is pulled (usually downward) to equal the tolerance caused by about 40 mg of methadone. That is considerably lower than the tolerance of most people actively addicted to opioids. So you are getting less opioid stimulation than your brain/body is used to-- and because of the ceiling effect, you can't increase the stimulation by taking more buprenorphine.

Your plan is a good one for detoxing, but not great for long-term. I don't know your circumstances-- i.e. if you have access to treatment including a prescriber. If you do have access, consider doing it right, and staying on a stable dose for at least a year before tapering off. I have seen so many people stuck in the cycle of use-detox-use, and the trend is usually more and more negative as time goes on.

Good luck- I hope things work out.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Thank you very much for the reply! I ended up taking a tiny bit more sub, probably a little less than 4mg total today and will wait for tomorrow for my next dose. I'll try 2mg and see how it goes. I feel fine mentally, but my legs are killing me still. I am going to the Philippines at the end of April and will not be able to bring any drugs and will have 0 access to any opioids while I am there. So my plan is to detox and do that and if I am still having issues/craving when I'm back a month later then I will see a doc for maintenance. I hope that I feel great completely sober and can move on with my life, but I'd much rather be on sub maintenance then hustling to get dope everyday.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:48 am 
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You won't be able to bring your Suboxone to the Philippines? Is there some rule in place where you are staying that won't allow it? What I'm saying is that I've been all around the world with my Suboxone packed into my carry-on bag and never had any issue's at all. So if you're worried about the legality of bringing it into that country, don't fear, it is no problem. Just make sure you bring the box that has the prescription on it just in case.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:46 am 
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Yes, the Philippines. That is where the crazy president who kills people on drugs resides.

Check this article. Its title is "Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, aka 'The Punisher,' encourages police, vigilantes to execute drug addicts "

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/p ... -1.2709514

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:28 pm 
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I think it's a good idea to leave any controlled substance at home for that trip!

I get your plan, and hope it works-- every time you think about using, make sure you end the thought spending a few minutes concentrating on some of the most miserable things that happened as a result. The goal during your time away is to change any euphoric associations into reality, ideally developing a visceral disgust when you think about opioids.

What you're doing brings to mind the main problem with residential treatment. The patient is taken out of his usual environment, and his new sober experiences are all tied to that place in those people. Then he goes back home, to those old people, places, and things… and old behaviors return.

With medication assisted treatment, patients are in their own world with cravings removed, so they have an opportunity to grow into sobriety in their real world.

The reverse of the residential treatment experience can be seen in the experience of Vietnam war heroin addict. It is thought that one reason they didn't continue their addiction is because all of their heroin use left behind, and wasn't at all associated with their lives in the states.

I think that's an interesting aspect of treatment choices that doesn't get discussed very much.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm still not feeling right on day 2 of subutex, I don't feel terrible, but I definitely feel off. The first time I got on subs I felt amazing right away, but I was also only on 30mg of methadone the first time. This time I'm switching from a half gram of heroin, so like suboxdoc said maybe my tolerance is the reason I feel like crap, but at the same time I know that bupe is incredibly strong, so I was expecting it to be enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:04 am 
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Update! I'm starting day 3 off of heroin and on subutex an I feel great. DAY 1: I took around 4mg in total, starting with 0.25mg after about 20 hours of no heroin and still had residual withdrawal symptoms throughout the night such as full body aches (mostly legs). RLS, and some depression. I took cannabis and gabapentin to sleep to make it to the 2nd day. DAY 2: Woke up without any aches, immediately took 0.50 of subutex and ended up taking around 2mg the whole day. Only problems would be feeling fatigued and a bit depressed. Slept good with only cannabis, no more gabapentin. DAY 3: Woke up at 8am, about 12 hours after last micro dose (0.5mg) in moderate withdrawal, experiencing intense aching and covered in sweat. Took about 0.5mg and FINALLY feel the good feelings that I used to get from subutex/buprenorphine. I was a bit worried because this is my 2nd time on subutex and the first time I felt great immediately after my switch from methadone to subutex, however I went 5 days w/ no methadone (30mg). This time I was using over a half gram of extremely strong uncut heroin daily and I guess my tolerance was much too high to comfortably switch over to subs immediately, but now on day 3 I can finally say that I made it successfully back on subutex. I only have 1 pill left, but will find a way to get more. At least some suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:10 am 
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Wow, I totally forgot about the president killing people in the streets. I did read that someone mentioned impeachment but the whole government there seems to be on his side. He should be tried for murder and sent to jail for life.

That is one country I have not been to and really haven't planned on it. My brother goes almost yearly w/o any problems and I'm sure he brings his Subutex with him. They may ignore the cash paying tourists and only go after their own people. But like our Dr. J said, I wouldn't take the chance either.

I wish you well on your journey into a forced recovery and hope you suffer minimally.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:49 am 
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Yeah, I'm not sure what to do. Before the new president I know my grandma brought her prescribed Roxy's with her. I'm actually thinking that I might be fine bringing subutex or suboxone. I am Filipino and will be staying in the provinces with my family, but I guess I'll just bribe my way out of it if I am pulled over lol I'm starting to feel like I should stay on subs for a few months again, but we'll see how it goes! & thank you for the good wishes Rule.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:00 am 
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Isn't he only going after the illegal drug trade? Ask your relatives what they think considering you have a legal script. I hate to see you suffer needlessly.

Please update us on what you end up doing so we know in the future how to respond.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:46 am 
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Yeah, you know what I think I was just being paranoid. If I have a legal script then there's surely no way I could get in trouble. Especially since it doesn't say something like Oxycodone or morphine on it. So now I'm hoping I can find a sub doc, but medicare/medical is lagging on my insurance so I might end up out of subs in a week. I'm on day 4 now and have only taken 0.5mg of bupe and some cannabis oil. I feel amazing, but woke up with aches and drenched in sweat. So I'm guessing the dope is still leaving my body.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:54 am 
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I would not want to gamble on this!

I am not an alarmist. I don't get sucked in by random things people post on facebook, but I want to quoate the article I linked:

"It’s a war on drug addicts.

Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, nicknamed “The Punisher,” has called for the executions of drug users as the latest measure in his unmerciful efforts to cut down crime.

“These sons of whores are destroying our children,” Duterte said earlier this month in a profanity-ridden speech in front of a crowd of 500 at a Manila slum, the Guardian reported.

“If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful,” he said."

I could never, in good conscience, having read this and similar articles, recommend anyone taking any drugs to The Philippines at present. Duerte equates addicts with drug dealers.

Amy

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