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 Post subject: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Hello everyone! I am looking forward to meeting you all and my time here :)

Where I am now on medication:
I have been on suboxone now for 4 months. My dose is 8mg 3x a day in strip form. Other than suboxone, I take 600mg Gabapentin 3x a day and 40mg paxil.

My treatment history:
This last year in a total meltdown, I finally ended myself up in treatment centers. In the last year I have been to 4 detox centers, two rehabs, and two psych wards. In the past 2 years I have ended up in the hospital 3 times due to overdoses.

I thought I would never survive or make it. I truly believed I was beyond repair and beyond treatment due to the severity of my use co-mingled with the severity of the darkness of my own psyche.

After getting out of rehab for the second time, going to meetings every day, being on thin ice at my place of residency and wanting to be free so fucking badly, to be able to be sober, for treatment to work, and it just wasnt, I was still raging and broken, often laying in bed shaking I was craving so bad and in constant panic attacks due to not being able to live my life, realizing I would relapse again even though it meant everything in the world to me not to... I finally said to myself, despite my previous beliefs that medically-assisted-recovery was not recovery at all, I said it was time, for the sake of my family that had endured my struggle for sobriety for two years and had been there, and their patience waning. For me, my life was simply un-livable sober, and it was un-livable using.

I decided to sit down and write down a list of my substance history and I came up to 108 different drugs that I have done. My drug history is very very extensive. I got very into the designer drug/research chemical scene for some years and have had and been dependent on everything under the sun at some time. Of course I have done heroin and coke and Rx stuff and everything also. But what finally got me that felt life long and irreversible, was my addiction to benzodiazapenes and opiates. I was on benzos for 6 years straight ~ ended up on a chemical with a 30 hour half life that I dosed every 12 hours. If I missed a dose it was seizure city. I finally came off of benzos and opiates when I overdosed on ketamine and fentanyl (was also on lsd, cannabis, benzos) and was put into a psych ward, then rehab.

anyway ~
I brought the paper to the doctor I found and ended up not even needing to show it. I ended up being prescribed 8mg 3x a day and have been on it ever since. It was a life changing decision for the better and I just wish so badly I made the decision earlier and did not go through the hell that I did.

Two months in, my doctor wanted to taper me off. I went with the idea at first but the next month I brought the paper on my history and discussed my fears and that I wanted to be on maintenance. Happily, he agreed to providing me maintenance medication at my dose.

I finally feel stable, like what I always imagined 'normal' must feel like. At first, it was hard to get used to. I had the worst constipation I had ever had... one time going 2.5 weeks before a movement. I also could never pee without a whole ritual and at least 30 seconds before anything worked down there lol. But those side effects have gone away thankfully.

The only problem I have now, is sleeping and waking up related. I feel fine during the day, not tired. Once I go to sleep though, I develop some kind of waking zombie mode. I wake up non-stop, and the longer into the night, the more tired and out of it I get, and I become prone to sometimes sleepwalking. It is also very hard to wake up in the morning. The odd thing is, I dont feel exhausted when I go to bed ~ it is the process of sleeping, which I get very poor quality, that leads to me having such a hard time waking up.

These might sound like serious side effects to some, but to me, it is neither here-nor-there ! I am finally without cravings, can function, and am building my life in a positive direction. I am currently going to school to work EMT and want to be a paramedic.

Anyway, I have kind of just typed this without plan of an outline or attack. I apologize if it is messy and long lol. If anyone has any tips or questions, I would be happy to respond. Thank you for the opportunity for a community such as this to participate in ~ soboxone has saved my life and I am so very grateful. I have no idea of a date or goal of when I would like to get off. If I have to stick to maintenance, I have to stick to maintenance. I am not bothered or worried to be honest... today I am just happy to be alive and well and making progress.


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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Welcome, Iggy!!

Your history is incredibly compelling and it is wonderful to hear that you are finally right where you need to be! I'm so proud of you for getting into suboxone treatment and turning your life around! Now that you've figured out what you need to do, don't let anyone dissuade you from following your path to recovery.

I'm thankful that your doctor recognized the right way to handle your long history of drug abuse. You are welcome here and feel free to comment and ask questions anywhere on the forum!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:47 am 
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Iggy a lot of ur story I can relate to very much! So happy u found this treatment, it's also the only thing that worked long term for me also. I literally tried inpatient detox several times and inpatient rehab one time with cravings beating me down after 5-6 months afterwards, and even detoxing in jail a few times. I could physically stop opiates most of the time but the mental obsession and anxiety/depression was unbearable. For months after rehab I white knuckled it and just about drove myself crazy in the process.

I would try to stop opiates by using other stuff. I used meth and cocain a few times thinking that if that could get me physically off opiates I could stop the speedy stuff afterwards lol. I had crazy desperate thinking trying to stop opiates. The cocain type high mentally hushed my opiate cravings at first but then I realized what a freaking miserable thing it was coming down from one of those highs! Good grief I don't know how ppl keep from being suicidal on those drugs. Needless to say it didn't work but that's some of the extremes I went to trying to kick opiates. I just wanted out.

Finally I found suboxone. It actually worked so great and like u said, I'll take whatever side effects come my way because I've lived the lowest of lows losing custody of my children, jail, losing every material thing I owned, trying to stop through any means I could think of and suboxone is the only thing that stopped my cravings and it saved my life because I couldn't have went on like that much longer. I get to thinking sometimes how different my life could have been if I'd found buprenorphine treatment earlier, I so wish I'd been smart enough to have started it so much sooner. I just gave up thinking anything would help me. If not for my fiancé begging me to just make the appointment and try, I wouldn't have even started then. I remember saying to him.... if this doesn't work I don't know what I'm going to do, nothing has worked this far. Thank God for him.

Well after typing a book lol I'm going to hush, I get so passionate sometimes and I know this medicine is a miracle, I just want everyone struggling to see the things this medication can do... along with counseling of course because we still got to do the work.

It's great to have u here Iggy! I was hooked on ur every word :)

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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
Welcome, Iggy!!

Your history is incredibly compelling and it is wonderful to hear that you are finally right where you need to be! I'm so proud of you for getting into suboxone treatment and turning your life around! Now that you've figured out what you need to do, don't let anyone dissuade you from following your path to recovery.


Thank you very much for the warm welcome Amy =) I absolutely will not let anyone dissuade me on my recovery, like you said. I know that I am in recovery and I know that I need my medication just like a diabetic would need insulin. The time for just eating healthy and exercise passed for me... I gave that all I had. I do believe I am beyond simply behavior and perception management and that I will not live a fruitful life using or without medication, at least for now. The only daunting thing... I am turning 30 next month. It's a long way down to rely on medication and I really hope society continues to work for me lol. Who knows, maybe one day things will be different.

jennjenn wrote:
It's great to have u here Iggy! I was hooked on ur every word :)


Thank you sincerely for the response Jennifer :mrgreen: I also really enjoyed what you had to share. I too used things other than opiates to try and nurse the same wounds and re-create what an opiate did for me, often in total denial of my motives. I really was embarrassed to myself that it came down to opiates. I was very much into pro-experimentation and believing in exploring ones consciousness (psychedelics). I believed in being humbled. To medicate ones problems with drugs. It was embarassing to my own self for me to realize I was making up all these concoctions of substances in order to vicariously look for content and what opiates did for me, because I thought of opiate dependence as selfish. I did it a lot with stimulants, and dissociatives, cannabinoids. And yeah... stimulants just about stole my soul. Turned me into something so fucking ugly. But like you said, the dopamine re-uptake from stimulants only lasts so long... and that norpinephrine keeps going and the anxiety and suicidial depression keeps kicking because you cant sleep and you feel broken and forced to endure. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Im sorry you lost so much :( It happens all the time doesnt it though. I lost everything, too. Im down to my motorcycle and my Mom and some guitars heh. But I lost the money, the place, the car, the friends, the family, the relationship of 5 years. My mother has stuck by me though. But I was getting threatened to get kicked out... and thats when I finally turned to the medicine. If we'd only known lol. But maybe it would have been taken for granted and spoiled. I dont know.

I will make a thread on my sleep side effect (waking up constantly, being a zombie in the morning) in the side effect section, see if I get any replies. Thanks guys

Jake


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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Hey iggy,
Thought Id respond on your thread so its not buried in the older 2013 '24mg is not enough' thread as the OP is long gone.
iggy wrote:
rob500 wrote:
...when I started Subutex took 32mg daily and did very good but many,many got by on much lower doses when state insurance got taken away.
Try a lower dose and see how you feel.

I am currently on state insurance and this is a fear of mine. I just got cleared for another year of coverage thankfully. I am going to school and about to start working again. 'Luckily' I am living with family and I will be intentionally working only very part time to stay under the margin of profit to keep my insurance. Having good insurance being a probability of life was one of the factors that weighed into deciding to go into something in the medical field. I am going to be doing my EMT Cert soon. That way I am always in a job where decent if not good insurance is a likely possibility, besides I believe doing something that helps others would be good for sobriety.

But I am afraid of being suddenly dropped unexpectedly without reason. I dont know why it may happen, but feel like it could since it is state free insurance. What dose are you at now? I am at 24 like OP. I have tested days on 16mg plenty of times and I feel fine but I also do not feel quite as all-around-well-and-stable like I do at 24mg.

You commented on state insurance and if you meant medicaid? I dug back to an April 2017 post and copied part of it here.
Per 2014 SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration), some states established Medicaid lifetime treatment limits on buprenorphine products.
1 year limit: District of Columbia, Illinois, Michigan, and Washington
2 year limit: Arkansas, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Virginia, and Wyoming
3 year limit: Utah
As of 2015 Dr J says Michigan limited to 2 yrs medicaid-and-insurance-coverage-t8094.html?hilit=medicaid

I know you just got approved for another year of coverage. great! What state are you in? You don't need to say but can you check to see if it has time limits? Here is the ASAM Amercian Society of Addiction Medicine. Illinois example. Limits to one year and caps dose at 16mg after 6 mos of treatment. https://www.asam.org/docs/default-sourc ... f?sfvrsn=6 New Mexico for ex, has no term limit but caps max dose to 24mg after 6 mos w no further dosage drops required. https://www.asam.org/docs/default-sourc ... f?sfvrsn=6
We say here to be forward looking to manage possible recovery issues!

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:58 pm 
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Hey Pelican,
Thank you for taking the time to post in care of my continued treatment :) I very much appreciate the care and the attention to detail. Honestly I have never thought to look up limits, derp. I live in Arizona. I am not on medicaid but AHCCCS. I just looked up the behavioral health medications list as of 2017 and hooray! No limits :) I can stay on AHCCCS as long as I am living below a certain line of taxed income. Luckily since I am living with family and the house is paid for, our bills are manageable and I can still get some schooling done so I am pretty comfortable now thinking I will not have any interruptions in medication. Thanks for asking, so I could look for myself and get peace of mind :)


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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Iggy, Glad to help. Paying it back for those who've helped me. Fyi, 'AHCCCS is Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, is the name of the medicaid program in the state of Arizona.'

Here is ASAM's info. You're fortunate! AZ is one of a smaller group of states that covers ALL 3 opiate use disorder meds - methadone, bup (2 brand and generic bup w and wo naloxone) and vivitrol.
https://www.asam.org/docs/default-sourc ... f?sfvrsn=6

States vary. In WI where Dr J, our site owner practices, on medicaid says "People on Suboxone in WI are allowed 180 days of medication every 180 days-- i.e. if they run out early, pharmacists cannot sell it for cash, even if the doc wants them to for some reason. I had a pregnancy patient who filled 3 days early each month; she had to wait 21 days with no medication! I made many calls to the state, and also begged pharmacists to help-- but nobody would risk getting in trouble. Patients on medicaid cannot get Suboxone if they are taking Soma, trazodone, or other opioids."

docm2 practices in MN and reports MN restricts too but I can't recall the ways? no benzos? no cash self pay if runs out early?

Not sure if AZ AHCCCS has restrictions on early fills, cash self pay or taking bup w certain other meds...

You're doing great and hope your sleep gets figured out. One sleepwalker report said some folks have hidden trauma or separately, severe sleep apnea that a CPAP device corrects. Best always, P

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Pelican wrote:
Iggy, Glad to help. Paying it back for those who've helped me. Fyi, 'AHCCCS is Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System, is the name of the medicaid program in the state of Arizona.'


Good catch :lol:
Well that opens my eyes. All this time, I thought it was under it's own umbrella. I did not realize. This will change how I watch politics. I feel like such an airhead.

Pelican wrote:
Here is ASAM's info. You're fortunate! AZ is one of a smaller group of states that covers ALL 3 opiate use disorder meds - methadone, bup (2 brand and generic bup w and wo naloxone) and vivitrol.
https://www.asam.org/docs/default-sourc ... f?sfvrsn=6

States vary. In WI where Dr J, our site owner practices, on medicaid says "People on Suboxone in WI are allowed 180 days of medication every 180 days-- i.e. if they run out early, pharmacists cannot sell it for cash, even if the doc wants them to for some reason. I had a pregnancy patient who filled 3 days early each month; she had to wait 21 days with no medication! I made many calls to the state, and also begged pharmacists to help-- but nobody would risk getting in trouble. Patients on medicaid cannot get Suboxone if they are taking Soma, trazodone, or other opioids."

docm2 practices in MN and reports MN restricts too but I can't recall the ways? no benzos? no cash self pay if runs out early?

Not sure if AZ AHCCCS has restrictions on early fills, cash self pay or taking bup w certain other meds...

I was being prescribed trazadone with suboxone at first, hm :?

It really looks like I have one of the most open states, then. I have refilled a day early before, but they would not let me refill 2 days early. I have a friend, he is on methadone. The AHCCCS covers his methadone and his transportation to the clinic every day.

My 90 tabs of 8mg comes to somewhere around $930 before AHCCCS covers it. Im so freaking grateful.

Pelican wrote:
You're doing great and hope your sleep gets figured out. One sleepwalker report said some folks have hidden trauma or separately, severe sleep apnea that a CPAP device corrects. Best always, P


Thank you really :) I so thank you for the kind words. I have been thinking it feels trauma-related. I think I have PTSD from the experience of my last overdose+benzo/opiate detox in the psych ward following. I mentioned I overdosed on a lot of chems including ketamine... well... I had overdosed on something like 25 f-ing grams of ketamine. Should have been dead 20 times over. Sounds impossible, right? Long story. But I lost my marbles for a few days following. I was talking to people who werent there. I saw ghosts. My family came to see me in the psych ward and I was yelling at "people" in the wood grains in the table. I thought the government was making me a deal and I was going to sell dope to the patients. I got tackled and shot up with who knows what multiple times because I was running around out of my mind. Transitioned to 3 psych wards before I settled down. I have very little memory of it. But when I got out of the hospital.. I didnt remember anything. My house was all new... everything was like jostling a memory I couldn't think of on my own. It really took something out of me.

And after all that I went through multiple rehabs. Idk. I cant believe I am here. I have been meaning to go back to the first hospital and meet the guy who saved my life.

Anyway. I was reading on Clonidine and I am hopeful it will help me. The fact that it reduces norpinephrine levels makes me think it will help. Because it's like I am on edge in my sleep and I jolt up before I am even awake.

Anyway. Cheers and much love <3


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 Post subject: Re: I Finally Arrived
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:29 am 
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Thank you! An amazing story of survival. Incredible. More will come on that....

I could see your cool opportunity to obtain bup treatment thru AZ state and am happy that you do as well! Imo, to protect recovery, its good to know their rules and how it works so I went head w further info and glad it wasn't too much.

no derp or air head, that wont do. we've ALL done that here - judged ourselves and sunk with a weight as heavy as the titanic sunk fast and deep. Its WAY too hard getting back up. Long before you, we've all judged ourselves and can tell you that approach doesn't work. hope you see our info here as loving kindness and not anyone pointing out info when there is no way you could have yet learned it...

You are new, you are early in your recovery, you matter. Take your time. We know there is much you don't yet know (and we don't know bc we're still learning) so its always challenging in how much to say and even what to say bc we don't really know you and how vulnerable you are.

My bad for showing the trazadone comment wo the thread response which now follows. We questioned that too! post113606.html?hilit=%20traz*#p113606

Wowo on the OD experience, thank you much for sharing as its very helpful! IDK psyche at all but not sure you should try to re live all that trauma. Maybe you need neuroplastic brain healing time and all over stable everyday simple low stress healing time. I don't have your history but I did find I had to make life VERY VERY simple -- for a long time. I cut cut cut out anything and everything that was even a mild stressor. I added in ALL kinds of healing work-- far different from just NA. I added in lots of help and cut cut out any stressor I could so it worked to not only survive but thrive.

And I added in love, w head down went back to family and quietly asked for their love bc I desperately needed it. And they gave it, luckily! Frankly, there is no way I'd be here -- wo it --- it was/is THAT important. So happy you are w your Mom!

More will come....

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Did well on Suboxone. Stopped May 2011.
Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
Coming here 'keeps recovery green'.


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