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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Congratulations Spaw and please keep telling us how things continue to go for you - although, I think you are going to be just fine. If you have been at such a tiny dose (0.125 mg) and every other day on top of it, for as long as you have, from everything I have read you should do just fine - as far as physical symptoms go. We have had several people here on the board over the last month or two that have done a similar taper and they have all reported having a very gentle drop off of Bup. Of course, just as you state, the real challenge now going forward is going to be with keeping your addiction in remission without the help of Bup. It can be done but it won't happen by magic and without some level of work on your part.

So, again, I really encourage you to let us know how you do over the next couple of weeks. You might also want to talk about what your plan is now for staying in remission from your addiction over the long haul. Once again, congratulations on this awesome accomplishment. You’ll now be able to remember the Memorial Day Weekend as when you stopped your Suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:06 pm 
Thank you Spaw for the update! I agree with donh....you should be just fine from here on out. I'll be surprised if you have anything more than possibly some very minor symptoms from this point forward. You had gotten your dose so low and your blood levels of the medication so gradually delined over time that I doubt you'll notice much of anything. As you said...now the hard part! Do whatever it takes to avoid ever having to go through this nightmare ever again, right?!
Congratulations to you! and again, thank you for sharing the way it's all come down for you. And please don't forget about us....come back from time to time with updates about how well you're doing post-Sub!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:19 am 
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DAY 6:
TIRED. REALLY TIRED.
Exercise should help... lots of exercise.
Healthy food and plenty of fluids.
Not jonesing at all. No WD symptoms to speak of. Just t-i-r-e-d.


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 Post subject: Thanks!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:11 am 
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Hi thespaw,
Congratulations on your taper and I wish you continued success on your Recovery.... I just wanted to take a minute to Thank You for being diligent in your reporting of your Taper. I'm sure your information is very helpful to others that are trying or are considering trying the same thing?? You Are IMHO exactly what this Forum is all about..... Someone sharing their story in hopes that it may help someone else get through a difficult time... Take care of yourself and please continue posting your progress. It sounds like you are on your way to being one of the SUCCESS Stories!!!! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:36 am 
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Thanks for posting the details of your taper and getting off the suboxone. I sincerely appreciate it when people do that and show us that it can be done fairly comfortably when you have a good recovery program, patience, and determination. You have done so well and I am quite impressed. I hope you will stick around after to let us know how things are going also.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:34 pm 
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Even though I really should not be surprised, hearing stories like this still does surprise me to a point. 0.25 mg not even daily but every other day and still - look at the huge effect when that dose is stopped! Makes my 10mg/day look like a truck load in comparison. Is it any wonder why those who try to stop at 2 MG, 4 MG or even higher report their "horror stories"?

Hang in there Spaw - at day 6 you are likely just passing the peak, or just have passed the peak, of whatever level of withdrawal you are going to have. It will get better for you.

Please continue to let us know how you are doing. It really is extremely helpful to a large number of people.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Hello everyone. Just joined in after reading this forum for a while. I am very appreciative to all for sharing your stories. And that means everyone. The more knowledge, the better.
I am going to be 50 years old. Most of you are younger and more resilient. I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease 8 years ago. Started self medicating after getting tired of the hassles of doctors, insurance companies and medications which only made me feel worse. Then I discovered opiates. And they helped me feel better and normal. But after a few years. I found myself taking upwards of 320mg of oxycontin along with anything else I could get ahold of including methadone at the end.
Long miserable story made short, I went to a sub dr 30 days ago after hitting
ROCK BOTTOM. :arrow:
Immediately went into PRECIPITATED WD'S, I wanted to die, actually was too sick to want anything. But I made it to this point. Doc started me on 32mgs. I think that is nuts. I want off this stuff ASAP. I'll tell you why. I do not have many good years left. When you hit 50, you will understand. I have dreams and goals yet. I want to go places, I want to make up for lost time. I lost a whole decade. I want to taper as fast as possible :!: I'm ready for this but will take any advice. Thanks again. Take care.


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 Post subject: AWESOME
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:17 am 
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Thespawn - I must say that this thread is truly inspiring and I can tell from what I have read that you fully understand how addiction works. I think that some people (no one in general) feel that they can just get on subs and that it is some miracle drug that gets us clean. And the fact is yes it is a miracle drug but it does require hard work from the addict and if I sit back and just wait then I know that nothing will change for me and your post is a perfect example of how to quit subs and experience minimal withdrawal. You did it by having a plan and actively engaging it day after day. I must say WELL DONE!!!!! Not only does this give me hope but inspires me to be more active in my addiction. We as addicts must understand that if we want different results then we may have to try something different. Nothing about this is easy (even though you made it look easy) but I believe that the way you did this is about as easy as it is going to get (as far as quitting goes)

Congratulations!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:09 am 
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Hey Juno,

First of all welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you are not happy on the suboxone. Believe me, there are plenty of mid-to-late 40's somethings and older on this forum. I'm 45 and I have a future to look forward to BECAUSE OF the suboxone.

Do you know why you went into P/W when you started subs? If I had to guess based on the little info you provided I would say it was the methodone. It can be very long-acting and one has to wait longer to induce onto the suboxone. Many people start out at 32 mg, especially when they were on a high dose of full agonist opiates. The difference is most of those people, once stabilized, will taper down to a lower dosage and stay at that for the length of their treatment.

Let me ask you a question...What's different now than before you started suboxone that will help you stay away from relapsing? Suboxone can save lives, but it doesn't cure addiction. In offers remission so that we can learn to deal with life without popping a pill, etc. The people who taper off and stay off suboxone successfully (without relapsing) are usually the people who have built up a very healthy recovery plan. I fear that if you just go off subs unprepared that you may be headed for relapse. Don't misunderstand, I'm rooting for your recovery, I just want to be honest with you and give you perhaps a different perspective.

Thespaw - sorry to hijack your thread. I think you're doing GREAT! Keep up the good work. You are an inspiration.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:40 am 
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Hey Hey Juno -

I am in view of 50 also.. Laughs.

I appreciate your post, and welcome. I just want to restate my understanding.

You are 50 years old and want to use your last years well. Well = drug free. Well = disease free. Well = same energy as 20's. Well = happy. etc.

The reason I mention the above is that I find my self, at my age, and incredible amount of 'STUFF' going on in my life - thinking the above "Well =" apply to me. At least in spirit.

I hope that I'm not offending you. Because of the autoimmune nature of Lyme disease - I have heard of several stories where Lyme disease was contracted, but even after antibiotics, there was still severe pain, fatigue and other symptoms. I read this at the mayo clinic:

"After treatment, a small number of people still experience some symptoms, such as muscle aches and fatigue. The cause of these continuing symptoms is unknown, but extended antibiotic treatment doesn't make them go away. Some experts believe that certain people who get Lyme disease are predisposed to develop an autoimmune response that contributes to their symptoms. More research is needed. "

HeyJuno - I'm hopeful you can maybe open another thread about your Lyme disease and symptoms. It is my guess that you were given more and more opiates to help with knee/joint pain from the Lyme disease? Maybe I'm way off here.

Anyway - as hatmaker said, there are a few ways to look at suboxone. Sure, we addicts use it for recovery, but there are others - like hatmaker, and perhaps yourself - that need some level of pain control, and would like that to NOT be OXY, Methadone, etc. Suboxone given multiple times a day often helps for pain control. I'm sure hatmaker can give better info, but she recently posted about a surgery - where she tapered quickly to zero, they tried to give her vicodin or something, and within a few days she was back on suboxone and much happier.

The best part about your age, is that you have a history to look at. I think you might consider turning around your viewpoint to - WOW - now I can finally plan for neat stuff in the future. I am not looking for drugs and my fix every day. I just take one pill a day - and I live my life.

Sure, tapering off would be great - but what if your pain level is bad? You won't be able to live your life as you desire then.

Again, if I am way off - I apologize. I read your post and thought - wow - here is someone who has been through a lot - and with a good plan including suboxone will be able to achieve some of his goals.

--LD


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:05 pm 
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DAY 10:
Fatigue, but no major discomfort.
Thinking my main difficulty will be getting my energy back(!) and dealing with the old L4-L5 issue.
I am finished with suboxone now. It is done.
Taper wayyyyyyyy down and it is very doable!
NOTHING like coming off full agonists.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Thanks for keeping us posted, thespaw. It's good to know you're doing well and again, that it CAN be done without one's fingernails falling off. (They didn't, did they? ROFL)

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Could someone please speak on the topic of fatigue and tiredness after stopping?
I did try one Norco and perked right up... felt pretty good and normal.
How long until I feel normal fully drug free? Anybody have experience with this?
Please help.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:19 pm 
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I felt like I had about 80% of my energy back after 30 days off Sub, and 100% of it back at 60 days off. Of course some days were better and some were harder, but generally speaking it got better every day.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:54 pm 
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thespaw - congrats on quitting subs!!!!
Your energy should be coming back soon and it just depends on your age, your health, and how much you were taking before you quit. And I know you were taking a small amount so that should not be an issue. I highly recommend exercising and pushing yourself to stay active and eat right. I know that you mentioned a back problem so if you can get yourself to a pool and swim around for a while so you can get those endorphins going. After you exercise for about 30-45 minutes eat something that makes you feel better have like a strawberry smoothie or something like that. You can also take some sort of multivitamin or vitamin pack. Don't overdue it but push yourself and you will find that it will get easier everyday. So eat healthy (fruit, veggies, peanuts or any kind of nuts, stay away from unhealthy shit like fast food, processed foods, and anything with a large amount of sugar. Take some vitamins a few times per day. Exercise once per day (do what you can) and get a good routine down for sleeping and eating patterns. Cut down on caffeine and nicotine if you smoke. All of this is going to help you a lot. Exercise and eating right will also help with your back pain. You may want to see a physical therapist as well if your not already.

Stay away from the norcos!!!! Please do yourself the biggest favor and flush all of your norcos down the toilet. Remember that every time that you take one you are going backwards as far as your recovery goes and it will take longer to get your energy back. If you have only taken one then your fine but I highly recommend not doing this again. Ever. Norcos are a powerful opiate and your body loves them (we have already figured this out) but just remember what you have been through and you dont want to start all over. I am telling you this because I have made the same mistake before and next thing I knew I was fully addicted to norcos. I also know that it is impossible for me to only take one. So this is a minor setback focus on your health and you will be just fine in the next couple of weeks. Remember how fast time flies and pretty soon you will be riding that pink cloud and this will all be behind you.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if you need help with figuring out a good meal plan, vitamins, or workout routine. I am not a doctor or anything like it but I am a certified personal trainer and I know how to work out and eat. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:50 am 
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It seems that even after a long slow taper that people still feel the same as people who jump from a high dose and dont taper..That begs the question does tapering long and slow really make all that much of a difference as compared to someone who jumps from 2mgs? Is it really true the longer your on the Sub the harder it will be even doing a long slow taper?. Even if one does a short term detox they also report symptoms simmilar to thespaw i.e fatigue and tiredness for many weeks and months....This is not encouraging at all for me considering i was on sub for 5 years and on average 8mgs for most of the years..Maybe i will take a SAO to come off sub? i dont know but i certainly dont want to be on sub. Gosh!.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:04 pm 
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From my experience and from my reading of other people's experiences, I would say that the withdrawal symptoms are much, much, milder when you do a slow taper to a very low dose of Suboxone.

People who have stopped after a short, fast taper to 2mgs, for example and people who stop at high doses have reported symptoms like insomnia, RLS, pain, nausea, anxiety attacks, severe fatigue, etc.

When I stopped, my symptoms were VERY MILD. I can't stress that enough...it was comparable to a mild cold. I did not miss any work, I did not have to stay in bed, I went about my normal life and was ok.

So while the duration of time from stopping until you're feeling 100% well might be similar (6-8 weeks), the real benefits to doing the taper are 1) The acute phase of the w/d is much milder and 2) Lack of lingering PAWS symptoms.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:01 pm 
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You should really read the liquid taper that Diary started and 2 other members completed successfully to ascertain the benefits of a slow taper as opposed to a quick jump.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Congrats Paw!!!! Im so happy to hear of your success. You got this in the bag. I am a bit confused tho.

It seems like you mention .25mg and then .125mg...

If i am doing this math right you broke a 1mg into 8 pieces and took a "sliver" every other day? Or you walked off while 1/4 of a mg? which is it? and how long did you do this before jumping off? 18 months? thanks

Congdon.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:23 am 
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I started at .250... progressing down to .125 every day then every other day at the end.
I was doing .125 for something like three weeks.
Took me quite a while but I was able to do it.
The discomfort was days 2-3-4.
It CAN be done.


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