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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:33 pm 
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I posted this in the "stopping suboxone" group, but then realized it would probably belong better in this group..

My fiancé has been going to a rehab clinic & getting suboxone for about 3 years now (for oxycontin addiction). We are getting married in April and he has decided this would be a good time to get off the suboxone (of course I am all for it because after all the research I have done, I have concluded 3 years is wayyyyy too long- it is supposed to take about 6 months to finish this type of program, from what I have read- I know a lot of people stay on longer, but that is supposedly the recommended time). Well he has been doing things the “right way” instead of quitting cold turkey, he has been tapering down. I don’t know much about the doses & things like that. Today he said he took his last pill. He has already started feeling crappy. He said he has a headache, body aches and can’t sleep. I don’t know how to help him because I have no idea what he is going through. I have done a ton of research and have a degree in Psychology but I have never had an addiction myself so of course it is different. Also, I am afraid because he said the suboxone was his "security blanket" (why his fiancée and child aren't enough of a "security blanket", I don't know) and he is saying he is doing this for me. Any advice on how I can help him through this?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:26 pm 
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im pretty sure he means safety blanket as in something to keep him from slipping up and using.

Im not sure if you already knew this, but suboxone in usually blocks effects of full agonists(ie, what ever opiate he was abusing)

its not that you and your child? aren't enough for him but rather you guys can't keep him clean like the suboxone can..


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 Post subject: AGAIN..I AGREE WITH 604
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:53 pm 
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604 wrote:
im pretty sure he means safety blanket as in something to keep him from slipping up and using.

Im not sure if you already knew this, but suboxone in usually blocks effects of full agonists(ie, what ever opiate he was abusing)

its not that you and your child? aren't enough for him but rather you guys can't keep him clean like the suboxone can..





It seems like everyone is giving you the same advice here....please let us here from you and tell us how YOU are doing and keep us updated...we are here to help you in anyway we can

Sincerely,
Slipper


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:02 am 
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christinen wrote:
I posted this in the "stopping suboxone" group, but then realized it would probably belong better in this group..

My fiancé has been going to a rehab clinic & getting suboxone for about 3 years now (for oxycontin addiction). We are getting married in April and he has decided this would be a good time to get off the suboxone (of course I am all for it because after all the research I have done, I have concluded 3 years is wayyyyy too long- it is supposed to take about 6 months to finish this type of program, from what I have read- I know a lot of people stay on longer, but that is supposedly the recommended time). Well he has been doing things the “right way” instead of quitting cold turkey, he has been tapering down. I don’t know much about the doses & things like that. Today he said he took his last pill. He has already started feeling crappy. He said he has a headache, body aches and can’t sleep. I don’t know how to help him because I have no idea what he is going through. I have done a ton of research and have a degree in Psychology but I have never had an addiction myself so of course it is different. Also, I am afraid because he said the suboxone was his "security blanket" (why his fiancée and child aren't enough of a "security blanket", I don't know) and he is saying he is doing this for me. Any advice on how I can help him through this?



And it also sounds like you're almost 'mad' at the suboxone because he can't just quit, or isn't on the 6-month and stop program...

These studies on the 6-month program, if you'll look at them a little closer, show that the SUCCESS RATE is pathetic. The relapse rate in 6-month suboxone studies is out of sight!!!
One of those I read recently was a 6-month program and had a 92% relapse rate within 4 months or less...

Suboxone is a long-term PARTIAL opiate agonist. It's not a full-blown opiate (a FULL agonist).

I was on the same thing as him, oxycontin, and took it for a CONSIDERABLE amount of time. I was taking 400mg or so a day of OXY, up my nose.

Here's the part I want you to focus on, and you can read my story in "My Addiction Story" area and gather more on me, and my background.
Read this, and consider this from the standpoint as my wife had to.



We got married at a young age. NOT because she was pregnant and it was the "right thing", but because we truly loved each other...one of the rare cases where young people get married for love, and not a baby or because it sounds like it's right. So, her at age 17, and me at age 19..we said "I do"...and began our lives together.
Things went great for first couple of years. Then my mom introduced me to lortab one day. Had a BAD headache..she came to visit...said "here, try this"...
This was RIGHT AFTER my first daughter was born, and we had been married nearly 3 years. Full-time job, wonderful, loving wife..paid for home..we were "ok"...

But I found something...lortab..hmm, what is that..how do I get it..those were questions I had. So, I started the junkie attitude...and had wisdom teeth cut out. Ahhh...I got 'em. A good 2 week or so supply..that lasted about 3-4 days. Then you know, I had to call the dentist and according to my mom "tell them you think you have a dry socket, they'll give you more..and by the way, can you let me have a couple?" .....

A habit was forming, and I LOVED it. Did I "not" love my wife and firstborn daughter? Hell no..I still loved them both dearly...but I found something that was a weakness.

On and off for about a year..I ate pills. Moody and pissed off if I didn't have them..I turned into a creature that nobody liked to be around, including my wife. OK..she was going to teach me a lesson. Daughter's first birthday, 2 weeks after it, she walked out on me. Never really packed and left, but it was the threat. I was done..I promised the promises..I did the deed. I quit..so I'm back...but I wasn't finished.

Things got back to somewhat normal for a couple of years....then it happened again. This time, much more, and much worse than before..because I already knew the routine. So I went even further..

It's not a security thing..it's not a "i don't care about you" thing. You shouldn't look at his active addiction as something personal towards you or take it as being what his feelings are towards you and the son you two have together...it's not that way AT ALL. Trust me on that. You're dealing with something SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL than what he can control, and it's not just something to leave hanging in the balance or to play around with. Active addiction is a DEADLY disease, it destroys, it kills, and it tears up EVERYTHING it touches.
There is NO amount of reading up or studying that you can do that will make you feel the feelings of an addict, especially an addict in withdrawals. That withdrawal is the most powerful motivator there is, will make an addict jump tall buildings in a single bound..but only to get that fix.

I went off the deep end and stayed there for quite a while. Nearly 7 months of putting 400mg of oxycontin pills up my nose...because it was so strong.
In my "high" mind, when my wife left me this last time, and for good, because I had been on-again off-again for so many years...she couldn't stand to watch me do that anymore, and for my children to suffer....so she had to get out of it for her own mental well-being or she would be dragged down too...
When we split, I thought that I had found my one and only true internet love....while I was high as hell, mind you..
Oh boy...was I wrong. But I had so much fun being wrong, or what I considered to be "fun". I wasted away to a skeleton, and had NO friends that trusted me. I was an AWFUL person who would lie, steal, whatever...just to get my high...

Then, it happened. I found suboxone..and I got my life back. My wife..well, we tore up and shredded the divorce papers. Called the lawyer and told him we didn't want to proceed with it...after we had already paid for it, so we lost that money....
But she and I got back together, and with the help of Suboxone, I started to straighten out the things I had done that were so wrong.

Fast forward 4 years...I've been steady on Suboxone for 4 years now. Am I looking to stop? NO!

One thing that my wife had to do in order to understand part of the addiction was educate herself about it. She understand SO much more now...having dealt with it. But she had to WANT to...I couldn't make her understand what it was like and how powerful it was..it was something she had to learn about, and she did. She doesn't blame the Suboxone with being a crutch...and if we want to call it some sort of security..if you have invested $300,000 into a home, and you live in the middle of the ghetto..but you couldn't have a lock on your doors, would you feel better if only you could protect your home, or would you feel better if you had armed security watching from outside your door? Which scenario would you feel the best? The armed security right? You can't stay there all the time and watch it 24-7, you have to sleep, you have to work, but the security, that's their JOB...that's what they DO!!!

Now, imagine that his life is that $300,000 home. He's invested SO much into keeping it secure, (or "CLEAN")...now imagine that Suboxone is the armed security force that is watching it. He doesn't have to worry about falling asleep..because even though there is NO lock on the door, if he falls asleep (has a moment of weakness where that Drug of Choice is VERY attainable), the security is RIGHT THERE to insure that he's OK and safe.

So him talking about Suboxone and security in it, is VERY understandable. You, personally, can't do what suboxone can..you're not the armed security either...but he wants you to be just as safe as he is...so you're both protected ...and can trust that nothing will happen.

THAT is how you should view the suboxone. It's not an enemy, it's the security that's needed to insure that he doesn't slip and fall...and especially since Suboxone blocks full opiate agonists...so even if he DID take something like Oxy...it would do NOTHING to him, at all!

I hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:24 am 
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The first thing I want to say is that there is no "recommended" time frame to be on suboxone for. It's individualized for each person. Three years is NOT "too long". The main thing that will give anyone the best hope for success (remaining in remission after stopping suboxone), is that the person is truly READY and PREPARED to stop the med - not because someone else is pushing them to do it. I certainly mean no offense. But from what I'm reading, I keep hearing that YOU think it's too long, YOU think it's his security blanket....what does HE think and feel about his suboxone?

Let me put it to you this way. If he broke his leg badly and needed to be in a full leg cast for months and months, after which he'd then have to use crutches. All this "rehab" he would need in order to be ready for his upcoming (hypothetical) "marathon". The more rehab he's had and the more prepared and the more HELP he's had from the cast and the crutches HELPED him to prepare for that upcoming race. Look at suboxone that way. It's been a HELP to him. I'm saying this because it almost sounds like you dislike him being on it.

Please know I'm not saying this to be mean. I want your fiance to succeed! And I know you do to! By succeed, again, I mean that when he stops suboxone, that he doesn't end up relapsing and going back on opiates.

As for his withdrawals, could you tell us what dose he's on and what kind of taper he's been doing? The more info you can offer with regard to his prior dose, how he tapered, what does he was last on, when he dropped it last, all that stuff, then I think we can help him/you to taper better and with less suffering on his part.


*On a technical note, I notice you said you also posted this in a different section/category of the forum. In the future, if you could just leave it in one section, that would be great. One of us moderators can always move the whole thread into the right category. But as it stands now, you have two threads going and responses to both in two different places and I can't fix that. Just know it might get confusing and you might have the same people responding in both places.

If anyone has an issue with putting something in a different category or needs a thread moved or anything like that, just give one of the moderators a PM and we'll address it as best we are able.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:15 am 
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I had never thought of suboxone as maintenance until I started the long-term usage..

It's taken me a VERY long time and lots of thinking of how I want my quality of life to be, and how I want to live, but I've made the decisions, for the foreseeable future, to stay on Suboxone long-term. I don't really have any health 'problems', but I do have some issues that would eventually require, or possibly give, a doctor reason enough to prescribe me opiate painkillers to remain comfortable -- like the arthritis that's tearing away at my knee. It's bearable and very much controlled with Suboxone, but I remember even when I was snorting oxycontin that there was nights (especially thunderstorms at night) that I would almost cry with my knee hurting so badly. I've not done that since being on Suboxone. The Suboxone doesn't take the pain away, or make it to where I don't care about it...but I don't sit and focus on it constantly when it's throbbing.

It may sound horrible, or sound like I'm still an addict...but that's the point. I AM still an addict. I am NOT in active addiction or actively "seeking"....but I'm not cured from addiction simply because I've been given a tool to fight off the effects of opiates...
Suboxone isn't a cure-all or a instant, permanent solution...it's an everyday battle. As long as I take the suboxone and continue keeping up with my doctor in a trustworthy, patient-doctor scenario, I have the tools that I need to ward off the addictive behavior.

For me, and MANY others, being given Suboxone was like being given a second chance at life.. I bet many people here would gladly post their likelihood of being either in jail, or in a grave somewhere if they hadn't gotten on this wonderful drug to treat their addiction when they did, and I'm no different. I know where I would be, and it's not a good place to think about..because I don't know what it would've taken.

The power of addiction was SO strong that I had thought about knocking over small stores for quick cash so I could get my fix..I thought about doing things that I would NEVER EVER consider right now..the thoughts wouldn't even cross my mind in my current state..but back then, I was constantly thinking of ways to get my NEXT fix..even though I had just gotten my fix.

The bad part of opiate abuse is for the most part, unless you know someone who's terminally ill and can get them to sell their drugs (or steal them), you don't get ANY sort of long-term effect from opiates. Opiates are short-acting for the most part..but I've been out of the game for so long that I'm not familiar with how easy it is to get things like Opana(sp) and such that are longer-lasting..
But for an addict, the longest they can get high and stay in that "plane" is about 6-8 hours...then it's time to search again.

This is the time of year that I LOVED when I was an addict, because I knew it was income tax time...and having kids meant that we always got back $5000 or more...
So as an addict, I always looked forward to being able to buy an endless (or so I thought) supply of pills at once. I remember one year at tax time, I had $7000 in my pocket..just cashed the check..and the FIRST place I went to was my dealer. I handed him $720 for pills. I bought somewhere around 160 lortab 10s from him..at one time. I remember driving home with all those pills..I was ELATED..boy I had my a GOOD fix...long lasting..I could make it probably a month with that.

TWO FKIN WEEKS AND THEY WERE GONE. I remember telling myself "damn, I ate 160 pills in 12 days...something is WRONG with that"....

Now, fast forward to this point in time, like today. We already got our taxes back. I'm not bragging or trying to show anyone up, but just a comparison -- right now, in my wallet, I think there's probably $400 or $500 in cash, plus another couple thousand in the bank..all together, this year, my sister has paid me a LITTLE for letting her live here and taking care of my niece all year, plus our tax return..it all added up to nearly $9100.

I would have blown through probably $3000 of that if I was still actively seeking. But it's not even a thought that's crossed my mind. We're doing things to prepare for a new baby in less than a month..our little girl will be born..and my wife let me buy a lawn tractor for our lawn care...so we're using our money wisely..plus keeping some put in the bank for hard times.

That just goes to show you what the differences are...and how much a person can change. I never would've let that kind of money sit in my wallet without buying pills...and my wife would've never trusted me with her entire tax return...but this is ALL hers. Every DIME..it's her money. It brings tears to my eyes to know what she's sacrificed because of me..and the things I did to this girl...but she loves me. She should've left my ass a LONG time ago..dropped me like a hot potato when I was actively seeking pills all the time..and for a while, she did..but she cared..she was concerned for my life..she just couldn't stand to watch me slowly killing myself. And now...right here, right now...I love this person more than I could ever imagine loving someone. There's NO drug that makes you forget where you've come from and what you've done...but those are my reminders that I have someone who truly gave up everything for me..
Do you think she ever throws it up at me about how much money I blew, or how much she could've had if I hadn't eat so many pills? Nope. Not ever...never once. She knows that I've kicked myself for all of that..and I despise the things that I did. But she's never made a remark about how much she could've done for herself or my kids if I hadn't been a druggie..she loves me unconditionally..and knows that it still hurts me to think about what "might have been."


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:37 pm 
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I guess my main issue with the suboxone comes from the fact that he hid it from me for the first year of our relationship (we have been together a little over 2 years now). My mom actually ran into him at the clinic (how embarrassing) because she took my brother there for methadone. So imagine my surprise when she told me that. I was so mad that he kept something like this from me, but then it started to make sense because there was always a large amount of his paychecks that could not be accounted for (we live together). Come to find out, this clinic is costing him $90/week so $360/month (he does NOT make a lot of money so this is substantial). Also, HE was the one who said suboxone is his security blanket, I did not say that. & I understand what people are saying, and I know what suboxone is used for, however I just don’t understand why you need to take a pill so that you don’t take other pills.. can’t really comprehend that one. This past weekend he was very moody but no major problems. He did say he still has some “crumbs” left that he will take if he thinks he needs to so I’m sure he isn’t completely off yet. I don’t know anything about the dose or the tapering because he refuses to talk to me about it. I think I will tell him about this site though so he can read about other people’s experiences, I think that might help him!

Thank you all!!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:40 pm 
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604- What I don't understand is why he needs ANYTHING to keep him clean. Why can't he keep himself clean? Maybe I just truly don't understand addiction, and I'm not claiming that I do understand (that's why I'm here!) but to me it seems like he is just lacking willpower. He should be able to do it himself (in my opinion of course). THAT is why I want him to stop spending almost $400 a month that we don't really even have at the clinic. He's just replacing one drug with another (another opinion!)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:11 pm 
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christinen wrote:
604- What I don't understand is why he needs ANYTHING to keep him clean. Why can't he keep himself clean? Maybe I just truly don't understand addiction, and I'm not claiming that I do understand (that's why I'm here!) but to me it seems like he is just lacking willpower. He should be able to do it himself (in my opinion of course). THAT is why I want him to stop spending almost $400 a month that we don't really even have at the clinic. He's just replacing one drug with another (another opinion!)


It's really hard to understand the concept..my wife had to come to some harsh realizations when I was finally at the mercy of my addiction and I let my treatment be the main priority..

You got to think about this in a certain way...

1)if he was buying opiates on the street, he'd likely be spending his ENTIRE paycheck, not just $360 or so of it..and that's not enough..so things would be sold off, pawned, stolen..etc just to get the drug that controls every aspect of a person's life.

2) you got to realize that this addiction to opiates is SO much stronger than just willpower.

If it was just willpower, hell, wouldn't NONE of us need Suboxone. I know for a fact that I'm stubborn as a damn mule, and probably just as several here on this site are..VERY stubborn.

And too, if he was buying them on the street, how much would that cost? don't know? well, i can tell you that, figure about 4 to 5 times what he's spending on treatment at the clinic right now. And it doesn't matter that he doesn't make enough, because in active addiction, there's NEVER enough pills or money to buy them. There's not any morals or standards that an addict has to go by, except "get more pills / get my fix, no matter who I hurt or what I have to do."

Understanding the addiction is VERY hard to do..I'm an addict myself, and be damned if I understand it..but I do know one thing that's VERY simple..I have the tools available to me to fight the cravings and addiction, and the ability to keep myself from being able to even feel any sort of opiate if I did take it..and I want to keep that security in-place and not let anything stand in the way of insuring that I'm the person that my kids need as a father, and I'm the husband that my wife needs me to be for her. I'm no good to anyone if I'm spaced out or chasing pills..and I can't let my guard down because even though I AM an addict, I'm not actively seeking or in "active addiction".

Imagine if you were pregnant, and he was telling you what you should/shouldn't be feeling & doing during pregnancy..(I say that because my wife is pregnant right now, and about ready to pop(deliver). So imagine if he told you when you lost the mucus plug that "you're not supposed to do that, why did you let that happen?" or when the baby dropped into position at 34 weeks or so that "you're not supposed to let the baby drop yet, why did you do that?"

The first thing a woman can tell a guy about pregnancy is "hey, you can have babies, or carry them, so don't tell me what I should and shouldn't feel or do."...am I right? I know that for a fact..because I've heard women say it...and in essence, you can't feel what he's feeling in addiction either...so it's not fair for you to tell him what he should/shouldn't be able to do/not do. I know it's hard to fathom, but there's just not an easy way to explain it all. Just trust me when I say that addiction has power over EVERY aspect of a person's life, ask anyone here and they'll tell you the same. Addiction dictates your every single move when you're actively seeking..it determines your thought process, it determines the level of risk you'll take..it makes decisions for you that you would never make if sober...the addict inside has already decided that there's not any level you won't stoop to in order to get that fix that you need.
And it's not something bad inside, or a evil person lurking around who's liable to murder you..the physical power that addiction has over someone is what controls them in this manner. There is literally nothing that controls and maneuvers the brain as addiction does..because if you're an addict, you want to AVOID WITHDRAWALS AT ALL COSTS!!! NO matter what, you DO NOT want to get into withdrawals, because then you won't be able to function as a human being, or at the very least, act remotely normal. There is nothing else that can halt your everyday way of life as addiction can..and has this sort of physical power..or NOTHING that makes your physically SICK, like sneezing + runny nose + diarrhea + chills + fever...and that's not something happens one by one..that all happens at the same time. You get ALL of that in withdrawals, it's like you suddenly have the flu, and you can't do ANYTHING to stop it, except get your fix...THEN AND ONLY THEN will the "flu-symptoms" go away and you'll feel normal again. That's the biggest part of addiction and what makes people go to the means they'll go to in order to get their drug of choice.


I hope this clears it up some for you.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:24 pm 
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jonathanm1978, Thank you so much for your responses, I really appreciate it. I think I understand a little better now. My fiance was already in treatment when we got together (even though I didn't know about it for a year) but I do know for a fact he spent a lot more than the $360/month on his drugs. He used to have a much better paying job but he got caught stealing from the company and was fired. He also owned a home which he lost. He had nothing when I got together with him- he lived at his parent's house at almost 30 years old, had no car, no job.. I knew him from when we were younger but did not know all the drug problems he had in the recent years. He obviously found a job since then and he has a car and we now have a house together. He can't get as good of a job as he had before because now he has a theft charge on his record. But he is doing pretty good. I don't want to mess any of that up. He did say that he made the decision himself but obviously I do want him to not have to be dependent on ANY drugs, legal or illegal. But ultimately it is his decision. I will support him whatever he ends up doing, as long as he doesn't go back to what he did before.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:24 pm 
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christinen wrote:
jonathanm1978, Thank you so much for your responses, I really appreciate it. I think I understand a little better now. My fiance was already in treatment when we got together (even though I didn't know about it for a year) but I do know for a fact he spent a lot more than the $360/month on his drugs. He used to have a much better paying job but he got caught stealing from the company and was fired. He also owned a home which he lost. He had nothing when I got together with him- he lived at his parent's house at almost 30 years old, had no car, no job.. I knew him from when we were younger but did not know all the drug problems he had in the recent years. He obviously found a job since then and he has a car and we now have a house together. He can't get as good of a job as he had before because now he has a theft charge on his record. But he is doing pretty good. I don't want to mess any of that up. He did say that he made the decision himself but obviously I do want him to not have to be dependent on ANY drugs, legal or illegal. But ultimately it is his decision. I will support him whatever he ends up doing, as long as he doesn't go back to what he did before.



Your last sentences are the crucial part to it all...he needs the support system in place to feel comfortable in his recovery method, whatever that method might be. I'd much rather have myself on a maintenance program of Suboxone, where I take a smaller dose every day (for the rest of my life if I have to), rather than to risk myself falling back down to be that dishonest, lowlife, scumbag that I used to be...because I was pretty low on the totem pole. I lost ALL of my dignity and self-respect, and I became someone that even I couldn't stand to be around (it's sad when you can't stand yourself!!)...

But having my wife as my support, and my kids who look up to me to be their father and role model, I know that I have to be the upstanding, respected person that I've become. I stayed on pills for SO long that I didn't even KNOW myself anymore, I had NO clue who I was, or what my life was about, and where I was headed. I KNEW for a FACT where I was heading if I hadn't stopped the pills...

But once I cleaned myself up, I became a new person. I became someone that I didn't recognize, and I also became a person that I hadn't known for SO many years...thanks to spending quite a number of years going down this road of opiates. I didn't start out eating as much as I was doing when I went into Suboxone treatment...but it was a slow road that I eventually fell face first into..and when I started using and hiding it from my wife..that was the beginning of it. I remember that period of time, because my son had JUST been born. Wife was in the hospital having my first son, and I was with my mom the night he was born (because they had to transport my son to another hospital to a NICU unit, because he was born at 35 weeks)...and being with my mom meant something bad, because my mom was a meth addict, pill head, pot smoker...you name it..she did it. And she lost it ALL too..to METH. So when my son was born, I slowly started taking pills again...and that led me to the point of snorting oxycontins 2-3 years later when the shit hit the fan and I fell off the damn edge into a pit.

If it had not been for my wife coming back to me, and standing beside me...and our marriage continuing onward..I can't say that I would have been AS successful. I would've still quit what I was doing, no matter what..but I would've had the devastation of losing my entire family as I knew it, and the woman that I married SO many years before that along with the pills.
I have SO much to be thankful for..managing to keep my family together and not losing my home...I guess I got rescued from where I was just in the nick of time..but it was a pretty close call. I can safely say that if I hadn't did what I did with suboxone when I did it...and I let another 3-4 months go by without any action on my part...that I wouldn't be where I am today and be as happy as I am with life. I would likely still be clean, but I can't say for sure that I would've been able to salvage what was left of my marriage.

My wife and I will be married 14 years as of June 6, 2012. So I feel as though I have enough time in a relationship under my belt to chime in when it comes to having someone that supports you.

Trust me when I say that my wife felt EXACTLY like you when all this first started. Nothing much was known about addiction, and nobody around here had ever HEARD of suboxone, let alone doctors dispensing it. She didn't know the physical part, the power it had over me..she had no clue...and it was SO hard to explain it to her...and to show her. It was even harder for her to trust me again.

But she knows now that she can totally trust me, and I totally trust her. Used to, she would hide money from me because if I could get my hands on it, it would be gone...buying pills soon as I could find any amount of money.
Oh, how things have changed..
ESPECIALLY
with her trust with money ..because RIGHT NOW..there's quite a few hundred dollars in the bank (actually, a couple thousand), and I had a greendot card that I used to have my taxes loaded to, and my deposit went through on that card THIS MORNING...so another $2k or so that I could've hidden from her if I was still an addict.

What's funny is I talked with her about it the other day when I figured up how to do our taxes...I did her taxes, and I set it up for the ENTIRE amount to go into her bank account(savings), then I did my taxes, and I had it set up to go into the greendot card. I told her that if I was still doing the pills, this would be a GREAT time for me to buy a shitload..because I could file my tax return, tell her I wasn't getting anything back, and hide away the entire $2200 bucks...then buy all the pills I could get with that money.

But when we were discussing it the other day, we were sorta laughing about it...or kidding around..because I told her "you know if I was still up to my old habits, and this money was coming to me...I would've found a way to get rid of it QUICK."
she said she knew...then I told her that I was glad that wasn't the case anymore, because we wouldn't be having ANOTHER baby in a couple of weeks, and it's a GRAND possibility that we wouldn't be together at all, and would probably only be on speaking terms for the kids sake.

I can't imagine my life without her in it. That's how close we are. We were each others firsts..in EVERY way..and have been together since we were VERY young...I can't even fathom, or begin to think about how things would be if she wasn't my spouse. I'm sure I'd be living, but there damn sure wouldn't be any life in my living...there would be a huge void that I'd never be able to fill.

I had always heard that you NEVER forget your first, and you never really stop loving that first person you do things with..and I FULLY believe that. I cant EVER move on..get over her..or even try to imagine what things would be like.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:35 am 
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There is so much more to opiate addiction than simple willpower or some character flaw that you seem to think that people like your husband and those of us right here have. It's just not that simple. It's a brain disease. Once that first opiate is taken, even legitimately, it's like a switch is thrown in the brain and the rest is downhill.

REPEAT: It's A DISEASE that has nothing to do with how strong a person is or how good of a person s/he is.

Am I coming off defensive? Yes, I probably am. That's because you basically just told us that we are lacking in some personal quality and we should just get over it. Think of it this way....you came really close to offending a perfect stranger on an internet forum by what you said. I have to wonder what your husband felt when you said the very same thing to him. I'm not trying to be mean, really I'm not. I'm simply being honest.

Might I make a suggestion that could help you to understand addiction? There's a thread called "What is addiction" and it's in the "Why the Anger" category/section on the Index page of the forum. I strongly suggest you read that thread, including all the articles and papers that accompany it. It's pretty comprehensive for a forum thread and I really think it could help you to understand what goes on in the brain of an opiate addict.

You obviously WANT to learn about addiction, and I respect you for that, just keep in mind that you might have to consciously fight the stereotypes that seem to exist within you.

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 Post subject: IF YOU WANT TO KEEP HIM
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:41 am 
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It seems to me that everyone has told you the same thing...over and over and you just don't get it and don't seem willing to get it..."I want him off all opiates".....I'm not trying to be mean here at all...my wish for you is a long and happy life with him..but if you REALLY want that long and happy marriage, kids, the whole 9 yards...you had better keep him on the suboxone...at least for now...or you will end up with a raging addict out of control doing all sorts of things to get his drugs and you will not put up with it and be gone.

PLEASE get this trading one drug for another out of your head...and do read up on drug addiction like hat said...TRY to understand this as a disease....he simply has NO CONTROL over the first pill or drink....Don't make him have to hide and sneak around...be a part of his life...ALL of it. If you can't change your thinking on this he doesn't stand much of a chance in my opinion.
Slipper


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:45 pm 
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The two posters above this post have vital points and legitimate concerns that you're going to have to address...in one way or another.

The reason I didn't put things in a more "firm" response is because I DO know what my poor wife dealt with, and she was exactly the same as you. She had the "one drug for another drug" mentality..and I mean, up until about a year ago (remember, I'm FOUR years on Suboxone!!)

So even during my BEST behavior, my wife was ...not "against" my treatment, but she wasn't "all for it" either. I remember her telling me almost EVERY 3 months that I needed to talk to my doctor about getting off the Suboxone...I needed to try to quit...every time I would go. But about a year ago, I started showing her things online, like studies of opiate addiction, and TV shows that dealt with opiate addiction, like intervention on A&E...

I also explained to my wife that opiate addiction is only a slight bit under heroin..because both are opiates..heroin is just a MUCH stronger form, and a MUCH more addictive way to get opiates, not to mention an EXTREMELY hard withdrawal that comes with Heroin...but prescription opiates are VERY similar to heroin in that they affect the brain the VERY same way!
This was the hardest thing that she had to come to an understanding with..that the PHYSICAL part of the opiate withdrawal was the part that really GRABS you and hangs on..and that addiction is a DISEASE.

I even explained to her that ADDICTION IS CONSIDERED A DISABILITY!!!

Under the "Americans with Disabilities Act", addiction is right up there with the other diseases!! Why? Because the withdrawals that come along are debilitating. Once my wife took some time and came to the understanding that I wasn't just taking Suboxone because it was the addict in me just wanting to take SOME sort of drug, she began to understand what addiction was all about. The ONLY reason she took all this into consideration and wanted to know more, instead of just crossing it out and assuming that I was ALWAYS going to be looking for some drug to take, is because she loves me, and she knows that I love her. She knows that I'm the man that I used to be before opiates ruined my life, and that I'm MUCH more in-touch with my emotions now..I'm not that cold-hearted bastard+asshole that I was when I took all those opiates (mostly Oxycontin)...

It takes a while to understand and take it all in, but trust me, if your relationship means ANYTHING to you, you'll try your best to learn as much as you can regarding addiction and the disease and how it affects someone you love.
The biggest thing is the stigma that surrounds opiates and addiction...that it's "just a pill", that "anyone who really wants to can quit"...all those things you hear...those are things that come from people who have NO CLUE what addiction is about, or how it consumes the person it grasps. Those are people who are read in a book or online a DEFINITION of addiction...they don't have ANY sort of understanding of it, and likely have never been affected by it (personally or in a relationship).

If some of these people would just take the time and try to learn JUST A LITTLE..they would quickly figure out that addiction isn't everything that it SHOULD be on paper. It's MUCH MORE!

There are even some doctors out there that tell you how you should feel or be..and these are doctors that don't understand addiction and aren't looking out for their patients, and likely are only around for the greenbacks.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:13 pm 
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If you really want him off all opiates, then there are other ways people can get clean than opioid replacement therapy. There's rehab / 12-steps / Smart-recovery / counselling / geographicals. Often a combination of different recovery tools CAN help some get off opioids. But he must choose to get off Suboxone himself if he's to have any chance at success.

I have known people who have gone through a phase of opioid addiction who have managed to give up by their own accord (using "will power" could be a way of describing it). They were the people I was using heroin with in my early 20's and who were addicted, then realised where their life was going and managed to escape.

But for most of the people here, and likely your husband too, we didn't manage to pull out on our own. We find it a LOT harder to quit without help.

They've done some research into what separates those who can stop from those who can't. Some factors they've identified are personality - impulsivity, difficulty delaying gratification, non-comformity, feeling socially alienated etc. Also there's big indicators like having a mental illness, or an abusive upbringing. There is a lot more too. We all have our own unique mix of features that qualify us for the disease of addiction.

The idea that addiction is a behaviour that your husband can stop with willpower falls under the life-process model of addiction. It's just another way of viewing the beast of addiction. Some people with addiction issues find the life-long label of addict discourages self-development and stigmatizes them. Believing they have a degree of will-power can help some addicts stay clean. But too much emphasis on this idea can make a recovering addict feel weak for relapsing, or struggling to get clean.

The disease model of addiction is the dominant way of viewing addiction at this point in history, and has its roots in the idea that addicts are born addicts, and that addiction is a disease that the addict has no power over. There's also the biopsychosocial / medical model, which overlaps with the disease model in some ways, but takes a lot more factors into consideration.

Whatever way a person views addiction is up to the individual, and most people follow the model that works best for their recovery. It sounds like what's happening between you and your husband, is that you have opposing views of addiction. Your husband is following the disease model, while you're following the life-process model. As a result, there's some friction. It's REALLY important you guys get on the same page, whatever you do. Whatever view of addiction your husband finds helps him stay clean the most, try and support him in what he's doing.

Quote:
however I just don’t understand why you need to take a pill so that you don’t take other pills..


That is one way of putting it, I spose. :lol:

Maybe if you thought of it more like a nicotine patch, but for opioid addicts?


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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