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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Cammie,
The way you describe how you feel is EXACTLY how I felt in my first weeks off of Sub. You bring it back as if it were yesterday, I remember the feeling so well (even the going out and having a few laughs, and then going home and crying). Those were not easy days and it makes me dread having to go back off again. I guess I didn't realize you had jumped off of 2mg. That's a pretty high dose. I stayed at 0.5mg for a few weeks before I jumped - so I think that might explain why it's taking you longer than i had suggested it would to feel better. The thing is, YOU NEVER HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN. Keep moving forward, and look at every day as a building block to your healing.

Scopioti - this isn't the first time you have indicated that maybe you really don't want to be off of Sub. Are you doing this for your gf or for you? This isn't an all or nothing proposition. And I promise, like Romeo said, you haven't screwed yourself up permanently (other than the fact that you will always be an addict). But physically, the body and mind have an amazing capacity to heal. I'm not sure if you're on a low dose right now or off. But staying at a very low dose until you are stabilized and READY to jump isn't a bad idea. I didn't plan it, but I ended up staying at 0.5mg for almost 2 months before I jumped. And I actually think it helped in the long run. You're very hard on yourself. Give yourself a break and look at how far you have come. This isn't a race.


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 Post subject: Re: Johnboy
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:17 pm 
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Scorpiotl wrote:
. But just the sheer duration and than of course coming off a 7 and half year methadone habit before the 4 months of sub has just really rocked my world.



I don't know why I didn't see this before, when I read your thread, but I was on methadone, around 150mg/day for over three years, and even a year or two sparatically before that....... only using other opiates, when I ran myself out,

anyways, my POINT is, even my first YEAR ON SUBOXONE, I had classic withdrawl symptoms,,,

I got freaked out and thought the suboxone wasn't working, so I'd end up at my doctor's office once in a while those first few months, he told me it was definitely methadone withdrawl, and I could have a "few bad days"
for a year or even 18months into suboxone treatment......

I remember the first few months were tough, but those rough days came further and further between as time went on.

i guess Im trying to say , the mental stuff your going thru , could definitely be from being on methadone 7 years!
That'd be MY guess anyways.......

I don't think you screwed yourself up permanently either!!

I hope your able to feel better soon, whether that means going back on suboxone, or not.
it's YOUR decision and shouldn't be made because of pressure from ANYONE else.
if you want off, that's your decision too.......

this opiate addiction, is NO joke, I know you know that already but sometimes we need to hear it (see it) to
be reminded that A LOT of people DIE because of this battle......

Wishing you the very best, in whatever decision you make :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Romeos point has made a huge difference in my withdrawal period. I'm not quite as far along in the process, however if I stay active and my brain working I feel better. Doing anything, washing dishes, vacuuming the house, fucking anything but sitting there makes me feel better. I love being outside, its like I'm not even going through withdrawals. I've tried sitting and watching football and its just not working, playing with my son while glancing at football and its like I'm cured. I've driven my mind into the mindset that I'm fine. I'm normal. It helps, it really does. I couldn't stand that shit after 5 days of laying around. Get up! Move! You'll feel better, and more tired at night.

Best of luck guys.

WTBF


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:59 pm 
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I wanted to add to the post after more throughly reading through, I often feel like I can't do something, like walk down stairs and make a bottle, or worse walking back up stairs to grab something. I've got aches all over, my body and mind are just now getting use to the fact I can kinda sorta sleep, AFTER 8 days with NOTHING. I've gone through emotional crying spells, yet emotional highs I've not felt in months. The second you wake up, hop in the hottest shower you possibly can and start MOVING. During the week when I can't be lazy, I can't just roll in a ball and cry I feel better. I can't focus for shit at work. I still make it through with willpower, I put my mind to the task and make it through. My back feels like death by lunch, I can't stay comfortable but I don't dwell and think this will never end. 5 hour energy and get your ass up and moving. Set a goal to lose weight or gain muscle, work towards it. Get 5-Htp and make yourself believe that seratonin is kickin'. I'm more depressed than ever in my life and I still manage to find joy throughout the day. Just keep fighting. You're both doing great and you both are far closer than me to being done with this entire process.

Keep it up and stay positive.

“If you see the world and yourself through a lens smudged by negativity then you’ll find much misery. If you look outwards and inwards through lens brightened by positivity you’ll find much to be happy and appreciative about.”

“Get going. Move forward. Aim High. Plan a takeoff. Don't just sit on the runway and hope someone will come along and push the airplane. It simply won't happen. Change your attitude and gain some altitude. Believe me, you'll love it up here.”

“Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behavior. Keep your behavior positive because your behavior becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny.”

Best of luck guys. Keep up the amazing progress!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:33 am 
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my bad amyatwork- guess i was lonely :lol: i also agree with the depresion and i take meds for it and it helps a lot if you find the right medication. it also brought me out of that horrible mental fog. let me tell you i know how it feels. some times i would rather be in a jail sell than feel that way all the time.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:05 pm 
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I still think i'd rather take W/D than even the county jail. So boring. You going to eat that, kid? You going to eat that moose piss man?

Than people trying to recruit me into the racially biased places. Oh and the guy coming in after some type of horrific withdrawls in the same cell, puking, shitting his life away.

ALL IN THE COURSE OF 2 DAYS. WHAT THE FUCK.

Jail's not my thing.

Sober Lifeee.


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 Post subject: hey guys
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:25 am 
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its been a wild week....i screwed up...i didnt have the energy to get up and goto school or deal with the 35 minute drive or any number of reasons i could say or as my ex-fiancee would probably think that im just making them up. i gave in and started taking 20mg of vicodin a day. i was so depressed. i thought it would make a difference and i wasnt going to g back to taking sub after the hellish 3 weeks i went thru. So she thru me out. Now Im just so messed up. I screwed everything up. She didnt even want me taking antidepressants that my Psychiatrist prescribed. So now Im dealing with all of this on top of having to find a new place to live and being severely depressed. I didnt sleep last night but that had more to do with the fact that I have changed so much in my life just since July and somehow my fiancee called my a drugabuser and all sorts of hateful things to my face. Anyway I am finally going to make an appointment to see the Dr. and try to get my life in order. With school, work and my life being turned upside down on more than one occassion i dunno what to do anymore. Not that I knew what to do in the first place. I just am really despondent and lonely right now. Its just me and I have to do this for me I should have done it for me all all along and I was but I just lost the woman I loved more than anyone in the world. So I cant tell if I am coming or going....this is really messed up...

S


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 Post subject: re above;
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 am 
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Hey there Scorp. Sorry that your going thru this, I don't know what's going on myself, I've got the desperado blues, on it and off it! @~1mg. So I'll wish you the best, and hope it all works out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:06 am 
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I'm so sorry your life is not going like you wanted it to! I'm sorry about your fiance breaking up with you. I know everything looks bleak to you now, but better days are coming. You're doing a positive thing by making an appointment with your doctor. I wish your fiance had been more understanding of addiction and what comes with it. She sounds like she thinks you can just will your way out of addiction, which is so unrealistic. I know you're hurting now, but I really hope that you find someone with a little more compassion.

For now, just keep putting one foot in front of the other and let us know how your dr. visit goes.

Amy

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 Post subject: @Stargazer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:18 pm 
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Hey man I have been following your posts in other forums. I probably screwed up by taking the vicodin. I just rationilized to myself rather taking any sub because of the protracted w/ds...its unlike aything i have ever experienced including methadone. but to be fair methadone when I came off I used SAO to allow me to bypass the 5 days of full blown withdraw when getting on suboxone last August. If I had been smart I would have just kept detoxing off methadone I suppose. I had my dose down to 5mgs. I would get36-48 hrs in before I turned to SAO...But I was on methdone for over 7 years. someone was saying I might still be experiencing methadone withdrawals seeing as how I was only on sub for 4months until December 17th....anyway my question for you is about temgesic or low dose bupe. I have access to Temgesic in .2mg pills. You mentioned something in another thread about people using temgesic or low dose bupe in combination with other stuff to get off sub. Do you think this is a better idea or alternative to using SAO like hydrocodone? I just wanted to get another opinion. I go to the Sub Dr on Friday and wanted to explore all options before I go back on sub....
Thx


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 Post subject: @ Amy
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:23 pm 
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I really am having to focus. I love her so much and now I am having alot of anxiety and feelings that I had before we got together 3 years ago. I had kind of given up on myself. I used my diagnosis as a chronice pain patient and the multiple knee surgeres and back injuries to justify my methadone usage. anyway I am really vulnerable right now. I want to get clean and stay clean. But the love of my life just walked out and I am finding it rally hard to stay positive. I treated my depression with opiates by self medicating in the past. I am trying to stay away from that right now. Sorry if I am being to open I am really just in shock right now.


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 Post subject: Thanks Rule
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:14 am 
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Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Obviously they do use sub to take people off full agonists. My point was about sub withdrawal and being told I should have tapered more but st tge same time being told to come in for detox. They just wanted my $$$ either that or were literally idiots.

Thx

Scorp


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:23 pm 
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I went to the Sub Dr. today a new dr not my pain management specialist because she doesnt deal with dependency addiction issues. Anyway story is the Dr. said that I never should have quit taking the sub in December cold turkey and that I needed to take 24mg a day. I had been on between 2=4mg or so day from my pain management dr trying to get all of the methadone out of my system. Anyway I am really confused and feel something s very off. He said that I wasnt sick because of suboxone withdrawal. He said the reason I was so sick was because of the years I spent on methadone and other opiates prior to getting on suboxone this past august. for those that dont know I went cold turkey off December17th a monday. This new Sub Dr. said I need to be on sub for 60 percent of the time I was on other opiates to allow my brain to heal. He also said that I wasnt on enough of a sub dose. I got along fine for the most part on 4mg a day for several months. He is saying that my opiate receptors he said there were 4 MU receptor a mu-a a mu-b etc. anyways he kept me there for over 2 hours and said Igot sick from methadone and everything else that if I had just stayed on suboxone and allowed my brain to heal i would be fine....i mean this is not what i have learned from reading the boards and this forum. I was off of sub for almost a month and had no drive. I was so afraid to take suboxone because i didnt sleep for almost 12 days that i started taking 20mg of hydrocodone a day...i was so afraid to take sub again. I am freaking out now. I havent filled my script. I am going to call my pain management dr monday and ask for a referrall. There is no way in my head why i should be on anymore than2-4mg of sub a day. he wanted me to take 8mg it seemed like right there if he had lhis way. I took 3mg yesterday and 4mg of sub today 2mg in the morning and 2mg after the appointment I was shaking so bad. I want my life back and I want to taper slowly off the sub.....But he would only write me a scrip for 8mg strips and wants me to take them 3 times a day. I have never taken more than4-5mg of sub in a day.....I feel like I was buying a used car or a bill of goods but with my life....I am not a Dr. I know he is....but I think I need to see a new Dr. This Dr. was so insistent and pushy and basically told me I would have to be on subs for at least 4 years. Than they gave me a drug test and said that if I couldnt afford it which I cant right now because it will cost $175 not to pay it and they will mark it down to $99 and than if i dont pay it they will send me 2 bills but that it wont go on my credit report or goto collections....I mean everything was very odd..Im so confused but by taking 4mg of sub today after taking 2mg yesterday and taking 20mg of norco the past week....I am so upset if I got my tolerance down so low and worked so hard i just couldnt handle the depression and pain and lack of motivation...honestly i wouldnt have been able to go back to school.....Im sorry i am rambling i am so upset....i need to find a DR who will listen to me and help me rather than just write me script.


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 Post subject: Sub mind wrap
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:18 pm 
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Hey Scorp, Yeah,,, it's a funny friggen drug, and I don't know what it does to your 'other' receptors, but something is going on, cause, for me I'm like a TV that can't get a clear picture, due to other channels scrambling the data. My mind is downloading all this trivial information thats got nothing to do with reality. When I don't take it the worlds about to end and I can't think of anything else.
The methadone detox for me, was like a date with the devil, oooh, and a full 'recovery' from that entailed a lot of hard work. I'd say 4 months after I was still having to deal with mental and physical issues and recon after two years, I could say to myself I was "over it".
Just can't give answer, if there is a cross over with m/done and sub detox, receptor renewal - overhaul, but you've got cover all three bases [mind body and spirit]before you get home, and man Cami's discription of the lost soul is pretty much on spot on, in my case. Getting one or two out of three is OK, but 3/3 is best cause then you know you've got your life back.
One hell of a mountain to climb, most never get there, but the view is awesome,,,, so they say.
Oh well on with another cycle of addiction,,,hmmm rehab, nah,,, f##k it, more drugs. God help us Scorp.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:50 am 
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i am very depressed and upset. even 1/2 a strip is to much. i am throwing the prescription away. i think i am going to start over i feel really cloudy and depressed tonight. getting off of sub is the only thing keeping me going. i cant believe i turned back. This is not what i want out of my life. its weird how i am affected by it. It gave me the strength to want to live again and now that i have seen life again i want off of the sub.....i think my comfortable dose must be 1-2.5mg right now because i feel really oadd at 4


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 Post subject: re above
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:06 am 
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Hi Scorp. It shows you've got a low tollerannce now, so be carefull if you take anything else!
Those headaches ain't much fun, I take asprin and make a tumeric milkshake, then drink heaps of water and go to bed. But the on low dose subutex I've never had a headache.
Refuse to critisize yourself. You have done a fricken great job, to get this far in such a short time, you deserve some credit for your effort, 7 years is along time. Unfortunately upheaval is part of the process, and just makes the ordeal all the more difficult and compounds the issue to a point where you end up where you began. Accepting where your at now might help you go forward later.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:54 am 
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Scorpiotl wrote:
i am very depressed and upset. even 1/2 a strip is to much. i am throwing the prescription away. i think i am going to start over i feel really cloudy and depressed tonight. getting off of sub is the only thing keeping me going. i cant believe i turned back. This is not what i want out of my life. its weird how i am affected by it. It gave me the strength to want to live again and now that i have seen life again i want off of the sub.....i think my comfortable dose must be 1-2.5mg right now because i feel really oadd at 4


Just shows you've grown out of Sub treatment.

Have you considered getting treatment for depression?


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 Post subject: yeah
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:29 pm 
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i posted in the other forum about a psychotherapist my pain managment dr mentioned to me but he doesnt take insurance its $350 for the first visit and $200 a week after that and supposedly he can get me off the sub....but its very expensive and i have my doubts. i want to keep tapering and see this dr to see what if anything he can supposedly teach me as he has had alot of success getting people off of suboxone he comes very highly reccomended.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:18 pm 
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scorpio,

do cut yourself some slack!! you are seriously hard on yourself! sounds like that one dr. didn't know wtf, daymn.

you are obviously a fighter because here you are and that's what we fighters do, we fight. if being off sub is what you want, then you can do it. yes, it's a major slog and grind most of the time, but look behind you and look at what you've made it thru already in your life.

no one ever said it would be easy, but it's sure worth it.


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 Post subject: Need an update
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:24 pm 
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Scorpiotl,

Where are you dude? Two weeks and you haven't posted anything. Let us know you're still alive and kickin'.

If I were you I'd keep looking for a Sub doctor who knows the drug better than your last idiot. And I really hate to call a Dr. an idiot, but that is what he is for telling you to take such high doses. It sounds like he is new at this and is doing what RB told him to do. You know yourself better than anyone. Don't throw the script away. Cut the films down as low as you can get them and keep looking for a new Dr. Then have him prescribe the 2 mg ones so you can do a proper taper.

And let me get this straight. Your fiance said she doesn't want you on any anti-depressants either? Sorry man, it may be best that you two broke up because she should be supporting you, not making it worse. A lot of us here are on SSRI's or something similar. If you and your Dr. agree that you need them then it's no ones business that you do. Including your fiance.

Please keep up the search for a doctor who will assess you the right way and support you through your taper. And maybe the other Dr. was correct about you staying on Sub for some more time. Why he said 4 years is beyond me though. You need to take a good look at yourself and see if it's the right time to taper and jump or to just stay on a low dose until you are ready to do it right. Forget about the Vicodin, it's past history. I will repeat what has already been said. Stop being so hard on yourself. (that's what rule62 means)

So, where are you?

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