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 Post subject: fatigue,sedation
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Others have mentioned fatigue, sedation, etc, on subs dispite being on adderall. I am on ritalin and I can barely function, esp, since I had to raise my dose the beginning of the month from 1mg to 3mg. I haven't been this tired before. Think it's b/c of the rapid increase in dose? Had tooth abcess and extraction. Reason for the rapid increase.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:08 am 
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I see you didn't get any responses to this, and for that I apologize. How are you doing now? Are you still having problems?

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 Post subject: Problems
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Yes, extreme problems. I feel like I am having w/d's. I don't understand. I was on .5 every 2 or 3 days in Feb. Up to four mg for 4 days and back to 1mg the first of march. On 3mg for 3 wks and have tried to taper to 2mg or 2.5 mg for the past week. In Feb I was dropping 1mg per week and feeling nothing. Didn't want that 3mg to stack up. I thought after almost being off twice that I could at least drop to 2.5 or 2mg after 3 weeks on 3mg. Don't know if 3 weeks of cipro and 5 days of opioid strenght NSAID nasal spray has had any thing to do with this. Extreme fatigue, nausea, leg pain. Don't know if dose is too high or this is w/d's or a result of my doc yo yoing my dose. I'm sick of this. Very emotional and depressed too. Thanks for checking.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:32 am 
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I'm thinking it could very well be w/d due to not keeping your dose level. It's hard to tell when one doesn't take the same dose every day. There's one good way that can often be a good indicator of w/d - the size of your pupils. During withdrawals - if it's bad enough - the pupils will dilate.

If your end goal is to taper off, if I were you, I'd find the dose that takes you out of withdrawals - take little enough to get you there - bits at a time if you must. Then stay there for a week or so. THEN I'd start dropping my dose by about 10% (it's what Dr. J recommends). It will be a slow taper, but that's the recommended way to taper off sub.

I hope this helps. Keep us posted and we'll do our best to help and support you through this. :)

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 Post subject: Suboxone Change
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:07 pm 
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I am new to this Site, but have been on Suboxone for 2-years. Starting at 8mg per/day, my dose is now around 1-2mg. I switched to the Film 6 months ago and can't seem to cut the right dose. The Addiction Doctor set me up for a plan, but I failed. He will see me one more time, and after that he will not prescribe anymore.

Besides the Suboxone, I am taking 20mg of Paxil. The Doctor is a private Addiction-Specialist Psychiatrist. I've told him my anger issues really surface when the dose is decreased. He assures me that Suboxone has nothing to do with it.

Can anyone tell me if that is true?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:48 am 
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Hi NRG and welcome. It's really hard to say what could be contributing to your anger issues. Emotions are so complicated and so many things could be affecting them - in my opinion, INCLUDING WITHDRAWALS. But it could also be things like fears about living without the suboxone safety net. That could definitely be affecting things as well. And a gazillion other things going on in your life.

Did you do a lot of recovery work while you were on suboxone? For example, did you attend therapy or 1:1 counseling? Those things are so helpful in my opinion to ascertain some of the reasons we started abusing meds to begin with. Many of us used/abused because we couldn't handle uncomfortable emotions. So depending on how much work you did on those kinds of things, they could be surfacing now, again, that you don't have the sub safety net in place. That's just my opinion.

Opiate withdrawals also mess with one's emotions quite a bit. It's not a permanent state by any means though. The slower your taper is, the less you should feel the w/d and the less side effects (anger issues) you may have. So you could try slowing your taper down. Just a thought.

I hope this helps. Ask as many more questions as you may have and we'll try to support and assist you as much as we're able.

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 Post subject: Suboxone Change
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:18 pm 
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Thank you for the Reply...

Geez, is my time off.. Here I thought it was 2-years, but I have been seeing him for 5-yrs.

The appointment was my last, as the Doctor assured me for prescribing Suboxone. He said I was welcome to come back to talk. There are personal reasons for not returning to 'just talk'. One, is that he always puts money ahead of the Patient's needs. I fell into some difficult times, never burned him for a Check, and recently told me not to come in unless I could pay for the Services that day. There was also a narcissistic attitude and insensitivity toward my problems. (Listen to me analyze the Shrink) However, that is the way I felt.

The Doctor administrated a Urine Test, but he said there was Cocaine in the test. My belief is he tried to manipulate me going out the door. The only way cocaine could have ended up in my system would be from a prior tooth extraction 10-days ago. In the past (maybe a year ago), he denied me Suboxone and I had ingested a very small amount to deal with the depression. I have always been truthful with him, but it seems he just doesn't get it.

Anyway, I have a new plan from him to ween-off the Suboxone. In the grand scheme of things I just have traded one addiction for another. It has always been my idea to get off Suboxone. Not once did he suggest it. Five years ago it was the same thing when addicted to 20mg of Oxycodone. I wanted to find other ways of pain management, both physical and mental.


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 Post subject: manipulating patients
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:08 pm 
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My doc has manipulated me and other patients.
It's outrageous that they would do this to those in such need.
11 months ago he hired a "therapist" and my next visit he told me it was his opinion that I "needed" therapy!
Now 2 months ago he also hired a "treatment specialist" and my very next visit he stops, looks at me, and says that "in my professional opinion" I needed help with my treatment! I have been doing FANTASTIC! Reducing every month. No bumps in the road.... I felt manipulated.... coerced. I told him I would think about it and he tried to cajole me into going! Isn't that HIS job? that I pay $125 a month for? It would have cost me ANOTHER $125 ... that I don't have.

We, as a group, are in a very tough position. We rely upon our docs to save our rears when our lives have gone to heck and we make the choice to try to save ourselves. We are in a compromised position and a few take advantage of us. He has ALWAYS kept me with virtually NO back up subs and then changed the appointment... very suspicious.

I have the name of another doc who was recommended by my pharmacist after he messed with my prescription!
I am scared of all the changes I'd have to go through to switch. I'm not even sure a different sub doc would take me if I'm currently receiving treatment.


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 Post subject: also...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:10 pm 
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My doc started drug testing ALL the patients ALL the time about 6 months ago.


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 Post subject: not w/d
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:06 pm 
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I don't think it was withdrawals b/c my pupils were not dialated, not sneezing, no sleepless nights, quite the opposite, cannot stay awake, no diarreah. think it's my chronic mono.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:16 pm 
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lbanks4 wrote:
My doc has manipulated me and other patients.
It's outrageous that they would do this to those in such need.
11 months ago he hired a "therapist" and my next visit he told me it was his opinion that I "needed" therapy!
Now 2 months ago he also hired a "treatment specialist" and my very next visit he stops, looks at me, and says that "in my professional opinion" I needed help with my treatment! I have been doing FANTASTIC! Reducing every month. No bumps in the road.... I felt manipulated.... coerced. I told him I would think about it and he tried to cajole me into going! Isn't that HIS job? that I pay $125 a month for? It would have cost me ANOTHER $125 ... that I don't have.

We, as a group, are in a very tough position. We rely upon our docs to save our rears when our lives have gone to heck and we make the choice to try to save ourselves. We are in a compromised position and a few take advantage of us. He has ALWAYS kept me with virtually NO back up subs and then changed the appointment... very suspicious.

I have the name of another doc who was recommended by my pharmacist after he messed with my prescription!
I am scared of all the changes I'd have to go through to switch. I'm not even sure a different sub doc would take me if I'm currently receiving treatment.


That's exactly how I began to feel. Manipulated. A half-hour was $100.00, and 1 Hour $185.00. He wanted to use the extra time for Therapy. That was okay, but the Therapy never had any answers for my problems. There are issues in my life that are really responsibilities. He just didn't get it after 5-years. After reading so much about personality disorders, I figured he would come to a conclusion what other Doctors have diagnosed. Yes, this is a decease and there are other complications. He never addressed any good suggestion to help with the things that are ongoing in my life. He actually made me angrier by asking if I did change my attitude. Attitude?? All my post-children life I have rewarded those who hurt me the most. I needed help to change this behavior. Not this Shrink. He made me feel it was always my fault, and then more manipulation to get more buck$. Five years of this... His attitude began to change when I received Medicaid, and they had to call him for Suboxone verification. He started to act like he didn't know me except for the money.

I'm on my own now. The NA and AA have been disasters for me. Not to say it doesn't work for other people. I'll continue ween off, but I don't give myself much hope until certain things in my life are no longer a responsibility. The hole in my stomach continues to ache. Suboxone is a good product with the right therapy administered. But, how did we get here? And why do we continue to use drugs to make us feel better?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:26 am 
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Hello TC, just figured I'd share some of my findings since I'm dealing with the same problem as you, got on subs then got diagnosed with add so starting taking stims every day, Then after a while I couldn't share the tiredness and fatigued, 0 energy feeling and my life kinda got put on hold because I'd be so lazy everyday. I feel like the Adderall I was taking was both helping and hurting the fatigue, as it did wonders in combatting the side effects from the subs, it broke right through the tiredness and gave you some energy, but the problem is your tolerance builds too fast and if you start to take it everyday the subs can start to override. Currently, for the past couple months, I've been experimenting with trying to take Adderall occasionally. It started off that despite saying that I didnt want to do it anymore i still ended up doing it about twice a week. After a while, since my tolerance dropped back down, they would effect me much stronger than if I was taking them everyday. Bad thing about this is that it makes me stay up all night and get no sleep, like I'm doing now, hence this really long brick of text. But as time went on I was doing them less and less, and most recently took a 2 week break, started to smoke weed almost everyday again, and today's the first day I've taken it in 2 weeks. WAiting this long definatly did bring back some of the initial energy and motivation, I got alot done and met some new people. Was really focused during class time. The problem is, during those 2 weeks I was pretttty tired everyday. My body would literally tell me that it feels like going to sleep only a couple hours after waking. I can close my eyes pretty much any time of the day and start to drift off, with a slight opiate like buzz.

It's sad that there's no way to break through that sub fatigue. It's been the number 1 thing holding back my recovery. I would reccommend to try and find out if you really have add or not. If you don't you'll feel a lot better off the meds, and just getting a steady sub dose going, preferrably trying to stick to the same dose for a bout a month before weening down more. This should be the easiest way. Good luck my friend.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:44 am 
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Caboose - you said you were dx with ADD and then given Adderall. Then you described how the Adderall counteracted your fatigue and gave you energy and even kept you up at night, but that the effect subsided unless you took it occasionally instead of everyday. My concern is this: What you are describing is the reaction a person has to Adderall who does NOT have ADD. A person with ADD who takes Adderall will NOT get a boost of energy. It will make them focus and sometimes even make them sleepy. But for non-ADD people it will act just like an amphetamine, which is what it is. I'm no doctor, obviously, but it doesn't sound like you have ADD to me. It sounds like you're using an amphetamine to adjust your mood. Please understand I mean you no offense by what I'm saying; this is just my two cents.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:30 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Caboose - you said you were dx with ADD and then given Adderall. Then you described how the Adderall counteracted your fatigue and gave you energy and even kept you up at night, but that the effect subsided unless you took it occasionally instead of everyday. My concern is this: What you are describing is the reaction a person has to Adderall who does NOT have ADD. A person with ADD who takes Adderall will NOT get a boost of energy. It will make them focus and sometimes even make them sleepy. But for non-ADD people it will act just like an amphetamine, which is what it is. I'm no doctor, obviously, but it doesn't sound like you have ADD to me. It sounds like you're using an amphetamine to adjust your mood. Please understand I mean you no offense by what I'm saying; this is just my two cents.


That was exactly what I thought. Normally someone who hasn't taken that medicine wouldn't be able to compile their thoughts and sit still long enough to compose a detailed post...but some folks react differently to different meds.

I have to wonder why you never asked for a testosterone test to be done, because it's pretty common that Suboxone lowers the T levels...I'm having it done tomorrow when I go into my appointment...just to see. I have a hard time getting motivated to do anything, but once I start doing something, I'm fine. I just can't make myself get up and going...and I'm POSITIVE that it's my testosterone. This should be a priority if you continue with Suboxone. If not, then you T levels will return to normal after a period of time without Suboxone.


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 Post subject: ADD and fatigue
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:15 pm 
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I have ADD and excessive daytime sleepiness. I have been taking ritalin for years. When I started taking subs I lowered my ritalin dose b/c I was having to take Lunesta or Ambien to sleep from taking the higher dose of ritalin. I didn't want to take the sleep meds, so I lowered my ritalin dose. However, if you abruptly stop taking your stimulant, you will experience extreme fatigue as a w/d not to mention irregular heart rhythums. I take my doses early during the day and do not take any after 3 pm, perferrably not after noon or you will not be able to sleep. I still experience some fatigue with the lower dose, but I would sleep all day and night if I stopped taking it. Hope this helps!


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