It is currently Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:08 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: I failed...in a sense
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:25 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:41 pm
Posts: 5
Hello all, i'm a stupid newb and no one cares about me, but i just need to talk about my attempt to be clean of all drugs, suboxone and cigarettes being the last. i have no one to talk to in real life, and i think that's why it's been so hard for me.
if anyone recalls my previous posts, i was in a really good mindset and happy that i'd gotten down to .5mg a day and was about to do the liquid taper dropping by .1mg every 4 days. i actually got from there down to .1mg...i failed at the last minute though. i still intend to do get off everything, but my girlfriend left me for good during my attempts and i got so depressed, i just needed to stay on the stuff to keep from losing my mind completely.

anyway, i did a stupid thing and bumped myself up to 4mg a day. i don't know why i did this, it gave me a happy feeling and my life is just really awful right now. i mean i know you get a lot of sob stories on this site, so it doesn't seem justified, but i'm not lying when i tell you that my future is uncertain. i don't want to really divulge my condition because a lot of people may just tell me to stay on drugs, so you have to understand that there is one thing i am sure about in whatever life i have left: i want to be free before i die. i want to get my feelings back and be able to go through my days without thinking i need something just to feel emotionally capable to face my problems. i want to do that on my own, i want to feel all the good things in life as well as the pain that inevitably comes with it.

so anyway, i'm taking about 4mg a day right now and i want to taper off as quick and painlessly as possible. i would appreciate nothing more in the world if someone could make a taper schedule for me (i know this sounds crazy, but i search for them all and they're all different). i know for a fact that the liquid taper down from .5mg at 4 day intervals can work from me, but getting from 4mg to that spot safely is a bit foggy. please someone help me just this one time, i'm not really lazy, i'm just confused and i am really scared too because i don't have much money and i can't afford to get many of them because i have to pay medical bills.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:31 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:41 pm
Posts: 5
i'm also scared because i've been on suboxone for about 3-4 months now, and i heard that can make your withdrawals very horrible. or is it all the same if you just taper?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:09 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:38 am
Posts: 63
Hey MrTwelve sorry to hear that everything is f...ed up right now. If you search on this site there are plenty different tapper plans that have been very successful for many people, if you look under diary of a quiter she has a very good thread on the liquid tapper method that many people swear by. If you just check back to the site every hour or so I'm sure somebody with a similar experience or more expertise that they will be able to help you out! Everyone here is pretty helpful. Hang in there man I know you will be able to figure it out.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:34 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Posts: 46
Mr12.........Yer not just a stupid newb and most everyone in here probably cares about anyone that is needing help. I have been blown away by the love shown in this forum. It really blows that you have to deal with all that drama but I want to point one thing out.........you could of, very easily, went and got high again. Tapering as low as you did and dosing in those 4 day increments could open up the door for usage again so congrats man! :D You are doing much better than you probably think. But, you asked for a taper schedule, not words of encouragement so here we go.

Since you have been back on 4MG for such a short amount of time I would drop directly to 1MG. Again, not a doctor and many many people have more experience on here than I do but this is what I would do.

1 MG - 1 week
.80 - 1 week
.70 - 1 week
.60 - 1 week
.50 - 1 week
.40 - 1 week
.30 - 1 week
.25 - 1 week
.20 - 1 week
.10 - 1 week

After the last week is up I would start the liquid taper and go .09-.08..etc.etc. and lower it every week as well. You have not been on it that long so I would suspect that you would not feel that horrible. Especially with that slow of a taper. I hope that helps and keep us posted. I wish you nothing but the best my man.

JL


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:17 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
First of all, please put the bat down and stop beating yourself up again. So you went back up in dosage? For all you know that saved you from a relapse, right? Isn't that the better option? I think it is.

You said you want to a quick and painless taper. Those two descriptors, unfortunately, don't usually go together. If you want painless, you must go SLOOOOOWWWLLLLYYYY. If you want quick, then it probably will not be painless.

Someone suggested you drop now from 4 mg down to 1 mg. Personally, I disagree with that. I suggest you take more time in between your dosage drops to allow your body to adjust. The smaller the drops the less you will feel them and the less you feel the drops and the slower you go, the less acute and post-acute withdrawals you will have when you make the final jump off suboxone. The people who have been the most successful and had the least amount of discomfort coming off suboxone did the most painless taper schedules.

Mr Twelve said: "i'm also scared because i've been on suboxone for about 3-4 months now, and i heard that can make your withdrawals very horrible. or is it all the same if you just taper?"

Mr. Twelve: Do you mean you heard that being on it for 3-4 months will make your withdrawals worse? That's not a very long time to be on suboxone. Plus there's no evidence that the longer a person is on it, the harder or worse it is to come off of it. Like I said above, it is all dependent on doing the best, slowest, lowest, long taper possible.

I hope this helps. Ask more questions if you need to. Oh, and BTW, this is NOT based on my own taper experience (I'm still on sub). It's based on what I've learned over the past 2 1/2 years.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:09 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:34 am
Posts: 17
Mr twelve, i done an 8mg taper to 1mg over 8 weeks then stabalised for a month. i took 3-4 doses of 0.4 mg daily doses then jumped.It was not easy, but also not hard-you can out-tuff it! i found romance in the pain , but outside this forum i guard the knowledge jealously. no one knows. i have heard of vets dieing on a battlefeild and refuse morphine in order to feel 'something'. As for me, i was so high for 15 years that i was lucky to feel gravity. i have been off bupe 3 weeks now and no longer recognise myself. im also glad IT KEPT ME ALIVE FOR SO LONG. you'll know when your ready.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:05 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 12:32 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Europe, Croatia
I know those kinds of situations where you're sad or down about something and you up your dose. I've done that many times. I found that I can function normally, and even better so on a low dose (0.5, 0.4mg a day). But there have been some situations in my life where something would go bad (like a fight with my GF, job problems etc.), and I would just take more sub. I guess because it dulls me in a way so I care less about everything. Low coping skills also contribute to this problem. And this is a very real problem for me, the thing that I'm unstable when I start to feel like crap about something. Anyway I'm not in a position to hand out advices, but I thought sharing this might help in a sense.
But being this way, I've come up with my own method of quickly decreaseing my dose. For example I'm on 2, 3mg and I wanna go down. I stop taking sub for like 4 days. I suffer trough the WD ofc, and it's freakin hard every time. But I take some clonidine, wich helps. And after 4days I take 0.5mg and I'm fine. The relief is great also. And all that is because the tolerance drops really fast so after the 3days mark, when the sub is flushed from the receptors, you only need so much....
I believe this may sound strange to some poeple, so feel free to comment as what you think on this. I'd really like to hear some opinions anyway....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:45 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 pm
Posts: 249
to quickly get back to .5 mg spend 2 days with nothing. after 2 days take .5 and your body should be so happy its getting subs it will adjust much quicker to that new lower dose. this worked for me when i made a leap from 1/10th of 2mg to 1/62 of a 2mg strip in one weekend. good luck an hang in there. dont worry about how long youve been on it. i have been on it for 3 years and the tapper had been fine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:56 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
bupeAddict wrote:
I know those kinds of situations where you're sad or down about something and you up your dose. I've done that many times. I found that I can function normally, and even better so on a low dose (0.5, 0.4mg a day). But there have been some situations in my life where something would go bad (like a fight with my GF, job problems etc.), and I would just take more sub. I guess because it dulls me in a way so I care less about everything. Low coping skills also contribute to this problem. And this is a very real problem for me, the thing that I'm unstable when I start to feel like crap about something. Anyway I'm not in a position to hand out advices, but I thought sharing this might help in a sense.
But being this way, I've come up with my own method of quickly decreaseing my dose. For example I'm on 2, 3mg and I wanna go down. I stop taking sub for like 4 days. I suffer trough the WD ofc, and it's freakin hard every time. But I take some clonidine, wich helps. And after 4days I take 0.5mg and I'm fine. The relief is great also. And all that is because the tolerance drops really fast so after the 3days mark, when the sub is flushed from the receptors, you only need so much....
I believe this may sound strange to some poeple, so feel free to comment as what you think on this. I'd really like to hear some opinions anyway....


I'm sure this method works to some extent, but I would caution you not to do it too often. Making your brain suffer withdrawals and then rewarding that feeling by taking some more drugs sets up a powerful response-reward cycle that can take on a life of it's own. Current research into opiate addiction indicates that withdrawal and relapse can become as addictive a cycle as just continuous use is. I know you're talking about Suboxone here which is not really "relapse" per se, but from what you're describing in terms of that feeling of relief, I think the physical effect on your brain is probably really similar to that relapse cycle.

MrTwelve Try not to be so hard on yourself. It often takes a few tries to taper off Sub, and it's not usually a linear process. Most of the people here who have done it successfully had to adjust our doseage along the way as we figured out a tapering schedule that worked and allowed us to maintain our recovery. I think you just went a little too fast and it all caught up with you.

One of the benefits of tapering more slowly, besides the reduced withdrawal and PAWS, is that it gives you a chance to pracitce coping with life, feelings, cravings, etc. If you want to be totally drug free at some point, now is a good time to figure out how you will deal with all the shit life will inevitably throw at you...without turning to drugs. If you don't have a plan for how you are going to do that, please make one.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:11 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
I see no failure in what you did Mr. 12. In my opinion, you protected yourself from a relapse. Don't be too hard on yourself, pick yourself up and move forward again. Tapering is difficult at times. Don't let it get to you.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:37 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 12:32 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Europe, Croatia
@Diary
I can see your point there. And thanx for the reply btw.
But don't you think it's a viable option? I mean ofc if you don't do it all over again. But for some ppl who seem to be having problems with tapering down 'cause it tends to be real slow, I think it's a good way to jump to a minimal dosage? After that continue to taper, stabilise and with time, try to quit. Maybe it's better then to "suffer" all the time whle tapering?
I know some ppl who stop taking it for sometime just to get the tolerance lowered, so they can get a (better) buzz. Just like with full agonists. But that's not the way I thought of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:51 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
bupeAddict: There seems to be what I consider the erroneous idea out there that when people taper they automatically have to suffer the whole time. If they do it by small enough drops each time, spread apart - I know it takes longer- then it can greatly reduce the discomfort involved in tapering. In other words, tapering does NOT have to be painful if done correctly.

Also, I'm confused about people stopping their sub for a time to drop their tolerance so they can "get high" off their suboxone? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of even taking suboxone and then getting off it? Maybe I misunderstood you, in which case could you clarify so I can understand you correctly? Thanks for that.

Finally, I agree with what Diary said about the response/reward cycle dynamic that you're setting up. It's a powerful situation that could conceivably set you up for a high chance of relapse.

Just my two cents. Take care.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:35 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:52 am
Posts: 12
@hatmaker510


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:42 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:52 am
Posts: 12
@hatmaker510

I couldn't agree more with your last post. During my whole 3 plus years on suboxone I have never really had any issues at tapering down in dosages. The way me and my Doctor have done it is (remember everyone is different and not everyone I know has been on subs as long as I have and I know some people have been on it longer than I) I see him every 30 days and we have gone down either every 30 to 60 days slowly. Remembering that everyone is different I just know when I was taking a full 2mg or 4mg whatever, there is NO way I could have jumped at that point. Wouldn't have happened for me. I guess the point I'm trying to make is I think hatmaker510 is completely right that the tapering process does not have to painful at all. When I've tapered down over the past 3 years I maybe felt some SLIGHT discomfort the first 24 - 48hrs but after that it was just like taking a normal dose. I'm down now to 1/16th of 2mg film once per day and I'm having more problems at this point tapering than when I was on a higher dose. You just have to remember it's a process and the best advice I can give you is be COMPLETELY honest with your doctor how you are feeling and they "should" adjust the subs accordingly. Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:44 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 12:32 pm
Posts: 27
Location: Europe, Croatia
@hatmaker
I have a friend who's also on suboxone therapy. He's on an unreasonable high dose <in> (8mg), and he's always in a futile hope to achieve a buzz from it. Although he's been on it for about 4years, so there is no possible buzz to be experienced.
Suboxone keeps him away from H (original DOC), but now suboX has become his DOC, as crazy as it sounds for you. He says, he likes suboxone more then H.... that's a LoL :-)
Well sometimes he's forced to be without suboXone for a day or two (he's taking way more then prescribed), and then when he takes it again, he gets a light buzz or whatever. So now he sometimes stops on purpose for a day or so to lower his tolerance and to get that freakin' buzz. So yeah, unfortunately he's definitely defeating the whole purpose of sub. I've also heard of some others also on therapy doing the same stupid thing. So now maybe you can understand when I say that sub has become his DOC?
Not everyone takes suboX the right way unfortunately.


About the "fast taper", or whatever to call it.
I know out of my own experience and out of stories here, that a taper does not have to be painfull at all. I just thought if it actually worked for me a month ago, why not for others? Sure, you'll have to suffer for a few days, but hey, after that you only need a minimum dose. I understand perfectly that it creates a problem like Diary stated. But that's only if you do it frequently, right? I think it's no harm if you do it once just to step down from e.g. 2 or 4mg to 0.5mg! 'Cause you won't need much more more after a few days without. Like l i v i n said, "your body should be so happy its getting subs it will adjust much quicker to that new lower dose"
I already tried to quit last year and made it, well for 15days without any sub. This time I had some pressure from my family to stop, so I tried although I wasn't mentally ready for it. So I made it for 5days this time, then took 0.5mg. And it was enough to be ok for the day. So that's how I came up with the idea.
If you can extremely lower your dose in 5 days rather then tapering for a month, is it such a bad idea? For people who want it fast anyway.
I'm open for any corrections or suggestions. That's why I posted this idea anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:43 am 
hatmaker510 wrote:



Mr Twelve said: "i'm also scared because i've been on suboxone for about 3-4 months now, and i heard that can make your withdrawals very horrible. or is it all the same if you just taper?"

Mr. Twelve: Do you mean you heard that being on it for 3-4 months will make your withdrawals worse? That's not a very long time to be on suboxone. Plus there's no evidence that the longer a person is on it, the harder or worse it is to come off of it. Like I said above, it is all dependent on doing the best, slowest, lowest, long taper possible.


With all due respect hat maker how can you say that there is no evidence the longer a person is on sub the harder it is coming off?

Are you denying someone that has been on it short term (3 weeks) can come off easier than someone that has been on a year?

What more evidence do you need, maybe i understood you wrong but you can't deny the longer you are on it the longer the withdrawals will be and the chance of having PAWS is raise. Just seems like a kinda false statement when there is PLENTY of evidence that someone on it short term can come off easier than someone on it long term.

Please tell me if i took what you said out of context, but i dont really see any other context it could be used in.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group