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 Post subject: birdie,birdie,birdie
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:52 am 
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I'm so sick of you(birdie) throwing around these fony bolonga hyperlinks on ibogaine you got off some African forum. hell, we already got a newbie asking about this shit, who wants the name of the place ASAP..he's ready to hop on a plane!!??LOL furthermore- stop with the 'cure' addiction talk and reset'recepters' BS! It takes time to go thru the PAWS. Sure, you might not feel the acute WDs(3 days), because you are tripping and puking your ass off. Fun! You should reach for promethazine- forgot, that's dope right.
This thread needs to be deleted, before more harm is caused on a lack of correct information. I don't care about your one doc. You keep throwing her offshore research around- I want to see some DEA testing or some good info with proper citations. Capt was banned? pity, wonder why? :roll: I'm no ibogain expert..just using common sence to possibly avoid harm reduction.It is a beautiful day birdie! next dose of ibogaine, you should write-work on grammar :lol:


BTW- I don't see how this thread could not turn into a debate...being the radical treatment,mis-information OR lack of, I'm done with this thread, I just get emotional when I see a newbie asking about ibogaine 'out of nowhere'...names of places etc.


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 Post subject: last post
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:18 am 
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"So hopefully someone will do a study. I think the problem is who cares about addicts. After all the world sees us as low life scum. Not worth the efford. Plus how would someone get rich? That is the name of the game after all is to get rich. "


okay,where do I begin? I don't think the world thinks the disease of addiction, and people that suffer from it, are low life scum! Not worth the 'efford' ey :?: I think the person(s) that 'cure' opioid addiction would get very wealthy, being that's the name of the game. Stop takin that shit, it's plummiting your IQ and I think it's nothing more than a glorified, misunderstood, hallucinagine :shock:
-indigochild 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:06 am 
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Indigo....I thought you were done with this thread????? Geesh


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:30 am 
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indigochild, please try not to be so hateful. There are many of us trying to get off of Suboxone and we cannot do it or did it and just keep feeling sick. I also thought Ibogaine sounded pretty nuts up until I found myself totally unable to progress with my taper. Now, I'm seriously considering it. Try getting off Suboxone and you will see why people start looking into every possible option. It's not so crazy to decide to go 'trip' for a day when you have been feeling like crap for months and months and your doctor cannot help you....nobody can help you....you are totally alone and stuck. It's the worst feeling and that is why people are looking into Ibogaine. It's not because we want to go hallucinate. Just watching what you say, because frankly, I've had to eat a lot of my own words when I tried walking in the shoes of the people I was rolling my eyes at. You guys may be the people criticizing Ibogaine today and then trying to figure out how to get it done in a year from now. I promise I won't laugh at you or put you down, because I know how it feels to be hopeless about stopping Suboxone. So, please try to have some compassion too, because until you've been in the situation yourself, you really do not know what it's like. It's very easy to say what you would and would not do when you are comfortable on your Sub dose.

Peace....I really mean that, too. Let's not hate on each other, k?

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Re: last post
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:34 am 
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indigochild wrote:
"So hopefully someone will do a study. I think the problem is who cares about addicts. After all the world sees us as low life scum. Not worth the efford. Plus how would someone get rich? That is the name of the game after all is to get rich. "


okay,where do I begin? I don't think the world thinks the disease of addiction, and people that suffer from it, are low life scum! Not worth the 'efford' ey :?: I think the person(s) that 'cure' opioid addiction would get very wealthy, being that's the name of the game. Stop takin that shit, it's plummiting your IQ and I think it's nothing more than a glorified, misunderstood, hallucinagine :shock:
-indigochild 8)


Ok... its not for you. thats cool. I wonder how long I would be here If I shit all over your thread and pushing sub? how long would it be before I was banned.

But indigo... if iboga is not for you then its not for you. I dont think it is for everyone but for me.. it was a life savior. You telling me to stop posting about it is to tell me what? Well, for one is how closed minded you are. To be honest I dont care if your chose is to remain on sub the rest of your life... that is a choice for sure. we are all able to make our own choices in life.

LOL.... your post are showing me the fear that your really trying to cover up. I am sorry your suffereing so, really I am. But there is nothing I can do to help you. Only you can help yourself. Not sure why your so bent on trashing my experience but so for it. I will do what I feel I should do and share my experience with who ever wants to hear it. If your not interested then just stay off the thread. It very clear what the thread is about.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:13 pm 
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I missed the "newbi" asking for more infomation but dont want to give this Indigo person more reason to attack me.

Anyone feel free to pm me and I will help you fine the research that your looking for. I did my research before I made this choice and have it all on my pc. But really all one has to do is put "ibogaine" in google and thousands of site will pop up.

This indigo person is not a happy person I can see. I just re-read a bit of the post and she had to stoop to correcting my grammer... that is just too funny. Shows me where your coming from and srry your so unhappy with yourself.


Let me clairfy some things to those who are really interested in this mode of treatment. It was not fun and really dont want to do it again... at this point NEVER again. Not saying I wouldnt if I felt like I was in the place it pulled me out of. I was desparate for sure.. I have tried everything under the sun to get off dope. Sub was the last thing I tired. It just didnt work for me. It was great the first few months but then it just made me feel more lost, sad and depressed about my situation. Now I am glad it didnt work for me or I am sure I would still be on it. I am glad that it does work for so many here. I hope it contiues to work for them.. it ws just not working for me. who knows why, body chemistry or what ever but never was I in the place where I was such the walking dead. At first I did feel like it saved me... but then it just turned on me for lack of better words.

I am not against sub for others... not at all. If your body excepts it then great. The goal is to help you get to a place where you have the ernergy to work on yourself. Help one work thru the reasons you choose to dope over. If you just take the sub and chose not to do anymore work on yourself then I feel like your just a ticking time bomb. Dope really was not my problems.. I was my problem. Doing dope I now see was the symptom of my problems. It was a way I could excape me and not have to deal. The drawl back of taking dope was that it too stop working for me. My tolerance went thru the roof and I could not afford it. I nearly lost my house/family and life due to dope. Sub did buy me some time to began the work I needed...it just stop working for me also and made my life even more intolerable. Not saying this will happen to everyone.. Dear lord I hope not. But for me it did.

I hate wd as much as the next person. Thats why I went on sub ws to avoid the wd. I do think for some it might be the best choice you have. It was just not my best choice. But I dont want folks to think that the ibogaine is a cure for your problems. I dont think it is. Well, my provider says it is not a cure and I have to beleive her. It is a cure for the wd and will give you time to get support in place to began the work that needs to be done to remain clean. Right now.. I have to admit I do feel cured of my addiction. Its wonderful not to be addicted to anything.. cant even find the words how wonderful it is. My provider tells me this will not last a life time so its important to do the work needed to stay clean... my best interest to do it now while I am not having to struggle with cravings/sickness etc. I have therapy set up, I do go to meetings and I have gotten rid of all contacts that could create problems for me. My wife has control of all the moneies and actually even my cell phone. I am allowed 10 min a day of cell time... my wife has been thru this with me before and this time she is leaving no open doors. I cant blame her. I am blessed she is still with me and allows me to live here. I would hate it if I couldnt live with my kids.

I just dont want you all to read this indigo person post and think that Iboga is a cure. The rest of her post is not worth mentioning.

I ask anyone interested in this mode of treatment to do thier own research. there are risk to the treatment and I did have to get a EKG and lab work before they would even consider me as a canidate. Must be reasons, have to admit that I was scared shitless that I would not be accepted. The provider ask me not to tell others it was a cake walk... but for me it really was. Not fun and not something I want to do again but comparative to the wd I was in after my several attempts to get off suboxone.. it was a cake walk. Compared to ct from dope.. much a cake walk. For me ct from H or oxy I couldnt hold up too. Also could deal with how I felt after I weaned off sub. I didnt last so I had to look for something else. I did the Wiessman (sp) and that was horrible, the worse expericene I have had to date. Would NEVER suggest anyone to do that. Not even my worse enemy. I still dont like florecent lights, get a headache immed when I am under one.

But please... anyone who wants more info please just pm me. Would hate for you to get attacked by this indigo person just for asking. One would think this would not be allowed here? but who am I ....

As far as me beinga newbe here.... I have been reading here a long time. Just never posted. Now.. I find myself looking for things to do. Strange how once totally clean how much time there is in a day. I am still not sleeping all that much either but did get 5hrs of uninterupted sleep last night. Then I got up and worked in the basement. My wife will be so pleased when she see's how it looks when she gets home. She has been asking me for yrs to get it cleaned up.... took me three hours to get it done but so proud of how it looks. What really suprized me was I really enjoiyed doing it. On the norm all my energy went to making it thru my shift at work, come home and sit infront of the tv nodding out on/off. I didnt see this was taken time from my kids or wife. I really am ready to go back to work but still on vac till Monday. Looking forward to going back. Today I think I will paint the upstairs bathroom... anther thing my wife has been asking me to do for yrs. She bought the paint at least 4 yrs ago. Hope she still wants that color. Well.... going to get dog food and then get started.. so will post later.

God bless you all and wish nothing but the best


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 Post subject: to Johnboy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:25 pm 
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Hey Johnboy,

I sent you another pm today with the info you ask for. I also answered your first pm but it got lost in cyber air or something because I did check my send box and it wasnt there. But check today.. it should be there for you.

Good luck,

Birdie


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 Post subject: Re: last post
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:23 am 
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birdie wrote:
indigochild wrote:
"So hopefully someone will do a study. I think the problem is who cares about addicts. After all the world sees us as low life scum. Not worth the efford. Plus how would someone get rich? That is the name of the game after all is to get rich. "


okay,where do I begin? I don't think the world thinks the disease of addiction, and people that suffer from it, are low life scum! Not worth the 'efford' ey :?: I think the person(s) that 'cure' opioid addiction would get very wealthy, being that's the name of the game. Stop takin that shit, it's plummiting your IQ and I think it's nothing more than a glorified, misunderstood, hallucinagine :shock:
-indigochild 8)


Ok... its not for you. thats cool. I wonder how long I would be here If I shit all over your thread and pushing sub? how long would it be before I was banned.

But indigo... if iboga is not for you then its not for you. I dont think it is for everyone but for me.. it was a life savior. You telling me to stop posting about it is to tell me what? Well, for one is how closed minded you are. To be honest I dont care if your chose is to remain on sub the rest of your life... that is a choice for sure. we are all able to make our own choices in life.

LOL.... your post are showing me the fear that your really trying to cover up. I am sorry your suffereing so, really I am. But there is nothing I can do to help you. Only you can help yourself. Not sure why your so bent on trashing my experience but so for it. I will do what I feel I should do and share my experience with who ever wants to hear it. If your not interested then just stay off the thread. It very clear what the thread is about.

what fear am I trying to cover up that's so funny? ..and I'm suffering? I'm a man, not female, and not on sub. Wow, you
took it 2 days ago, and already a life"savior"?,,,I did read another thread, where a man posted his negative experience and you sure perked up!I just don't want anyone going to Mexico because you this thread...that's all! done!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:36 pm 
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whatever indigo.... so you feel that comfortable making choices for others? I dont but we are all from a different mold. I am glad your not the one makng my choices for MY life. I guess we all have a right to our own thoughts but please... allow others to make thier own choices.

On a good note.... I got 7.5 hrs sleep last night. I feel great today. I finished up the painting of the bathroom and now airing out the house. My sense of smell is so keen that the paint smell is sorta making me sick. I really want to cut the grass but I think it still too wet...hopefully later today I will be able to. So second choice is taking my dog to the park. No car avail for me today so feel sorta stuck. But a nice walk around will be great. I am still in the ahhhhhhhhhhhh phase of all the smells. I see myself wanting to walk on all fours like the dog and sniffing everything that comes my way.

Also... and I know many will identify with this. My Sex drive has been non exsistant for such a long time. I get complaints from my wife all the time. She feels like it her and dont get it that I can not do it.. no drive and I have tried for her too many times and couldnt. I just lost interest all together. Well... its alive now. Wife is pretty happy with it too. I was sorta like a teen last night the first try but the second I was able to control more. I guess we need to practice practice and practice more. Not such a bad thing... hehehe.

YOu know guys... I need to say something else. I am getting lots of pms. I just want to tell you that a good provider will want you to do your own research. The first time I spoke to my provider she ask me what I know about iboga. WEll, at the time not much and regurgatated what I read. SHe flatly told me to do more research, not to believe all I read on the net. So I did. Then I got back with her and she was more then willing to share more info with me. In fact she was impressed with all I could tell her. It still took some time to get to the day of the treatment. I had to get off the sub and have some time away from it. I had to get a ekg and lab work done and she had to have a hard copy of both. After she clear the ekg then we went to the next step of the switch off sub and then the wait for the sub to totally leave my system. Then we set the date. I still feel for me it was the best choice.


I want to repeat what she said to me more then one time. It goes close to this..."I can not guarentee you the vision state, many with sub/meth close in thier history do not reach that state. "All I can guarentee you is that the Iboga will get you thru the wd process with comparative ease and give you some time without the cravings to deal with, no guarentee that you will stay clean, that is up to you". With the meat of the pm's I am getting I just thought that this needed to be said. I know I can go back to dope today if that was my choice. It is not though and Never will be again. I can say for certain that I will remain clean today, am pretty sure the rest of this week also. I will do what ever it take to keep what I have right now and that means NO OPIATES. This is pretty clear to me. I am one of the lucky ones that did get the vision state. I was shown with no uncertain terms why I kept relapsing. I was shown pretty clearly my part in the life I have lived. Not easy to swollow for sure. We addicts like to pass the buck with this and that excuse on why we are active addicts. WEll... I dont have that right anymore. I am glad of it even though that means I have to take more responsiblity in my choices. I cant blame the doctors, wife or my childhood anymore. I saw what I choose and saw where I blamed others for my choices. Wont fly in my soul anymore. I think this will be on my side later on down the road when things happen to temp me.

Well, off to a meeting then gonna go for a long walk with my dog and sniff around. HEHEHE. Smells are so great. I think not smoking also is playing a role in how intense my sense of smell is but it is wonderful.

later

Birdie


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 Post subject: just some info to share.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:15 pm 
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When I first called a USA provider she basically blew me off. She wanted me to do my own research and know what I was getting into. She said that addicts are so desparate that they will believe anything. She wanted me to have a better understanding of why/how the Iboga works... this is what I found most intereseting. I did have to re-read and look up words to fully understnd it, so dont feel bad if the first time you read it, it makes no sense.

Ibogaine works, it is believed, by filling in the receptor sites that the opiate molecules once sought, ending the craving for the drug, while at the same time metabolizing in the liver into noribogaine, which is thought to have powerful detoxifying and anti-depressant properties. The million dollar jackpot is that ibogaine can eliminate the exceedingly painful opiate withdrawal process, sometimes in a single dose. In effect, it has the power to hit the reset button on the brain's neurotransmitter mechanism.

The abolition of withdrawal co-incides with the first, ibogaine peak not the nor-ibogaine peak. This is consistent with the action of the synthetic 18-MC, which doesn't have either n-methyl-d-aspartate activity (think ketamine) or a particularly active metabolite; but IS active via apha 3 beta 4 nicotinic acetyl-choline blockade and at the kappa opiate receptor, like ibogaine.


Also, even small amounts of ibogaine have been found to express a growth factor, GDNF, which not only regenerates dopamine neurons but back-signals to the cell nucliei to express more GDNF, setting up a benign auto-regulating loop that continues to re-sprout dopamine neurons even after the nor-ibogaine effect fades. THIS is the explanation both of the persistent effect, and ibogaine's efficacy against pyscho-stimulants and cigarettes.





Maybe I will try and post something everyday for you'll. I do know there are risk to doing Iboga. there was a death recently in Mexico and it appears they tried to cover it up. One of the other clients that was there put it out there ... also I know of a "brain-dead 21 yr old after he took iboga. This kid was watched by his mother. I cant imagine how terrible she feels now. So there are risk. That is why they want a ekg and lab work. IF you all call someone in the USA and they dont ask for the test look else where is what I suggest. I was lucky enough to get with this RN that has 30 yrs of ER/ICU experience. She even says that it can be dangerous. She said that she wont even talk to someone who is planning to do this without a trained provider. She said that if she suggested doses or how to do it and they die she would be just as guilty as the person to gave the plant to them. So really guys and gals... do your research. Weight out the pro's and cons. For me... I was the walking dead anyways so if I died it was just the next step for me. LIfe really sucked and death I welcomed with open arms. This chic who sat for me did check me out well. She spent loads of time with me prior to me arriving to her house.

I was talking to her this morning and she said that its a shame that Iboga dosnt work for benzo habits. So guys.. just fyi, if your struggling with a benzo habit iboga is not going to help you. She told me some MD in Mexico says it will but thats just not true. It dangerous to think so. She said that if your duel addicted to opiates and benzo's she has to dose you with the benzo during the treatment and after. Just wanted to mention this to you'll.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:02 pm 
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It's a shame you have been put in a position to have to defend yourself, when it was clear from the beginning that you were simply sharing your own experience and not in any way trying to convince others to follow in your path.
I also think it is telling that someone who is so self righteous thinks the DEA should do more testing, when in fact the Drug ENFORCEMENT Agency does not test drugs. That would be the FDA who, unfortunately, is not in the business of approving plants with well documented medicinal uses that are not patentable, and therefore are not profitable to the pharmaceutical companies. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. And while the FDA doesn't want to touch it, and does classify it as a hallucinogen (although it may not be), that doesn't negate the scientific studies that have been published demonstrating it's effacivity in interrupting opiate addiction.
But for me the studies aren't enough. I really need to hear the personal stories of those who have experienced it. That's why, again, I really appreciate the time you have put into documenting this, birdie. I think it's great to discuss and debate and offer different viewpoints. But I wouldn't waste another keystroke on those who want to attack, demean and belittle. This thread is called Personal Approaches for a reason.
Thanks for sticking with us.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:27 am 
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Amen, Lillyval. Very well said.

Birdie, I was one of the ones who asked you to come back and share your story and just let us know how it went. I'm so thankful that you did. I am not sure whether or not I want to do Ibogaine, but do I want to learn about all the options and hear from someone who has gone through this themselves? Absolutely. Many of us are interested in this option, and I appreciate that you took the time to recount it on here. Getting flack for it was odd and pointless, so I do encourage you to ignore that sort of thing. You sound so positive right now and people who aren't feeling positive will want to take a shot at that. Just let it bounce right off and keep going.

I wish you all the very best.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:36 am 
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:?: wow amazing. I believe this is nuts. I have been on sub ( not deafened) and off sub for five months and I felt exactlyy the same off of sub after the week of slight grumpy feeling. Some people I think see and feel things that just imaginary. Sub helps my siatic pain a lot without destroying my life. Pro sub here lady

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:40 am 
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Lilly,

I agree with you 100%. I just copied this from the home page of this forum, "This forum is a place for addicts and for those who love them to discuss addiction, particularly addiction to opiates (pain pills). Please join us to discuss symptoms, patterns, consequences, and treatment of opiate dependence. Recognizing that opiate dependence is a potentially fatal disease, we respect ALL effective treatments for opiate dependence, whether or not the treatment includes buprenorphine or Suboxone." (I bolded the second sentence and the excerpt of the last sentence)

Apparently some of the main functions of this forum are to discuss the treatment of opiate dependence and to respect ALL effective treatments for opiate dependence!

It's not like birdie came on here and started telling all of us that after shoving 500 cigarette butt's up his ass that he was cured of opiate dependence.

I know I've been hearing of Ibogaine for years and years. I watched a program on TV years ago about Dr. Nash administering Ibogaine and some of the amazing results she was getting. I've been hearing of the 'underground' Ibogaine treatments popping up around the U.S. for some time now. I'm aware of several Ibogaine providers in Mexico and just today I looked up the one's in Canada. It turns out there is one not too far from where I grew up. Even though I'm already off of opiates, I'll probably contact them tomorrow for more information.

I agree with your comment about the pharmaceutical companies having no interest in supporting something they can't make money off of. I watched an excellent movie last weekend called Extraordinary Measures with Brendan Fraser and Harrison Ford. One part of the movie deals with that subject matter exactly.

birdie, I know I enjoy reading your posts about Ibogaine. Like Lilly, I would rather hear from people who have been through it then from someone who has been paid to tell us something that may or may not be true. (That was a cheap shot aimed at Reckitt Benckiser)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:32 am 
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Dear Romeo,

I actually just spent five minutes pondering whether I would stick 500 cigarette butts up my ass if that would cure my addiction. Thanks a lot!

Love,
DoaQ

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:55 am 
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Diary,

Nah, it doesn't work, I already tried it!! :lol: :lol:

You'll just end up with a really sore ass!! :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:49 am 
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wade wrote:
:?: wow amazing. I believe this is nuts. I have been on sub ( not deafened) and off sub for five months and I felt exactlyy the same off of sub after the week of slight grumpy feeling. Some people I think see and feel things that just imaginary. Sub helps my siatic pain a lot without destroying my life. Pro sub here lady


Wade... I am not anti sub for everyone. It just that it didnt work with my body. I am glad you were able to use it to help you end your actuve addiction. I am glad that now your off all opiates and feel the "same". I didnt want to feel the same. I need to be happy, free of all opiates and able to function this way.

I do know a few that are on sub right now and it does work for them and well. I was just not one of them. Now it dosnt matter that sub didnt work for me. You say you only had to endure a week of feeling crapy I do question because I know no one (in person) who experience that. But I am sure there are some out there. Again I think its has to do with body chemisty.

But, very happy that now your drug free and happy. It goes to show that sub is not all trash which I use to think when I was going thru the wd and failed over and over. But I am not alone in this I know now. As I have stated in the pass, I know a few folks that will be on it for life and prob. needs to be. Also it is working for them and they are not held captive in thier home, not able to answer the phone or door. Again I think the sub just mixes better with thier body chemisty. But congrats to you for your clean time. I mean that no matter if you think I am "nuts" or not. We all have the same goal here. To live a happy drug free life. I now have that, just got here a different way then you did.

I also have siaticia but sub didnt touch that pain. Motrin does for sure. But again.. different strokes for different folks. The provider did suggest that I start esthanaxtin for my pain... I just started it yesterday so early to say but will let you know if your interested. I know for me... the option of a opaite for my discomforts is not a option that I care to allow. I am not one that can dabble or use opiates for pain. it will end up the same way it always has.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:51 am 
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oops.. Wade I just re-read you post and your not off sub? I do have a question if this is so. When you did wean off sub how long did you stay off of it?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:14 am 
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Took myself off of it for five months. After about three. months I had severe leg and siatic pain come back. I cut meat for a living and I never missed work when I quit but was lazy for about a week. I didn't want to take ppils or handfulls of tylenol ect forever so sub was my choice for pain. Im far from deadened I just got promoted in my job to a manager position. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:30 am 
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I dont believe we're in kansas anymore toto. Just kidding. But there is no cure all with some mushroom trip. Im just not buying this one. But I do wish you luck. I would keep the sub bashing to a minimum IMO I don't believe that helps anybody.

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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