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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:13 am 
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wow how very interesting all this was.I bet years ago when talk about a drug such as suboxone was first heard ,alot of people were skeptical, or negative or positive ,or whatever ,and now walla, we have a wonderfull medicine to help us ( suboxone). To each his own and all we can do is cross our fingers that with time more and more research is done on other compounds that will help us addicts achieve what we all quest for...technology is great ..have a great day everyone


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:18 am 
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Hello pharmakon_logy,

You wrote, "I've heard "miraculous" stories of Ibogaine, but the fact remains that ibogaine doesn't "reset" your opioid receptors..."

---When you say "reset", do you mean that it lowers opiate tolerance? Yes, it most certainly does. You are all alone on this one. Everyone who has taken it with a professional knows it will reset opiate tolerance, and puts you in a pre addictive state. It does not put you exactly to the moment before you ever used drugs, though. You can be weak and dizzy for a couple weeks. No withdrawal, but it feels like you have been beat up. No sweats, tears, yawning, or diarrhea, BUT to have sore muscles and general weakness and confusion for a couple weeks is common. If you had withdrawal a month after Ibo, that is evidence that the Ibogaine was not properly administered. While the Ibo is in your system, it can make the use of opiates very uncomfortable, and often deadly. If you thought you could take Ibo, then start your addiction over, that means you had no intention of quitting. If you thought you could take Ibo, then you would be indistinguishable from a non-addict within a few days, you did not do your research. There has been a lot of scientific research conduced on this. Look up Dr Deborah Mash, Dr Ken Alper, or Dr Stanley Glick
Here is a recently posted video from Dr Ken Alper explaining the pharmacological action of Ibo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSPP5tfY ... ature=plcp

You wrote: "...and one is still in protracted withdrawal for up to 18 months or more, even after the ibogaine "experience". It is not a cure-all and there is virtually no scientific evidence to support it's "miraculous" power."

---That is not true. Not even close. Does this mean you were clean for 18 months? Then it worked. If you were not clean for 18 months, then you can not say that there was protracted withdrawal for 18 months. If there is any medicine that will put you in a position in which you do not use opiates for 18 months, that is pretty amazing, wouldn't you say? Before I took Iboga, I could hardly go 4 hours without heroin.
You use the word "miracle" a few times. I do not know what you mean, or what you expected. Like walking on water and turning water into wine? No, Ibogaine does not do that. When people use the word "miracle" it is often because they have tried methadone, suboxone detox, cold turkey, sleeping pills, benzos, years of counseling, and perhaps even tried ultra rapid detox or Naltrexone implants. They go through many years of chaos, pain, and suffering. Then they take Iboga, and the withdrawal is gone, the cravings are manageable, and they finally have a shot at living a clean and sober life. Finally they can move away from their drug source without the fear of withdrawal. It opens opportunities that opiates prevented. To them, it is a miracle.

If Ibogaine does not do what you expect, it is because you were taught wrong. It consistently works when it is done right. It is up to you to know and fully understand what it does, and not to make up your own expectations.

You wrote: "Not to say that it is completely the placebo effect, however. Is it a miracle-drug? No. Show me a drug with no side-effects and I'll show you a drug with no benefits. "

---I would very much like to know what conditions you took Ibogaine. Often when people write like you have, it is because they took it at home without proper administration, or they got ripped off by a person who doesn't know what they are doing. I have been working with Ibo for years, and I have never heard of a successful opiate detox done from home. I know of hundreds of people who have attempted home detox and failed. If you mean to say that Ibogaine will fail if any random person takes it from home, I agree completely. People do not understand that Iboga is very complicated. A lot of addicts want to believe that their experience with LSD or DMT has prepared them for this. It never works out. There are no proper administration manuals online. There is no way to intuitively anticipate what will happen.

If Ibogaine is administered by a professional, it works every time. I cant say this enough, it is very complicated. The medicine is not administered in one whack. It takes a lot of preparation, and a lot of work afterward. For example, young kids who have their parents pay have a very low success rate because when it becomes sore and uncomfortable afterwards, the kids just throw up their arms and say, "Didn't work, back to dope." Conversely, if a person works fast food for 6 months to save up for treatment, then they will not say, "I'm sore, I give up." They will say, "I worked hard for this, I do not have diarrhea, sweats, chills, runny nose, and no obsession or dreams about opiates. I'll keep my head up."
If a person goes right back to the same environment, with easy access to drugs, then they will eventually break down and use again. Conversely, if a person makes a real effort to cut out their old friends, move to a new town, start a new job, and work to build new relationships, then it is probable that the person will never go back to opiates and life starts over. If you thought you could do it without research, have your folks pay, and change nothing about your life... then it is no surprise it did not work out. You spent years of your life abusing opiates... it will take a few months of hard work to straighten that out.

I hope this helps people considering Ibogaine. I took it from 120mg of methadone. It was not what I expected. It was hard work. It was uncomfortable. I am very grateful for it. It gave me a completely new chance at life, and I am no longer obsessed with drugs. I have not had a single dream about drugs since I took Ibogaine. I am very thankful that I went to a professional.


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 Post subject: Ibogahelp
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:02 pm 
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I'm a college student studying addiction medicine. I do not have the time to read all of your ramblings-on so excuse me if I skip some parts.

Show me scholarly evidence that Ibogaine attenuates anti-nociception. A couple YouTube videos by people you've never met who claim to be this or that? Sorry, I don't accept that as genuine, bona-fide research or anything scholarly for that matter.

Plus, you are clearly biased on this issue, sic you are not being objective and have an axe to grind. Your thinking is thus flawed and unacceptable and inappropriate and you are at a deficit because you cannot remain unbiased.

Bottom line, you have no evidence to support your claims. Perhaps you used Ibogaine and it was a miracle. Let me explain what a miracle is, by the way, since there has been room for interpretation. A miracle, to me, is Suboxone. Without it, I would be in jails, institutions or would be dead. That's a miracle. I'll provide another definition of miracle. A wonderful event occurring in the physical world attributed to supernatural powers. By the way you're describing ibogaine this fits the description.

Suboxone is a miracle drug because it can save lives. There is no evidence that ibogaine has saved even one life, none that can be replicated and there are standards for.

If there are no two alike cases where is your evidence? I know many people whom Suboxone changed, and saved their lives. I could write up these stories in detail, but unfortunately do not have the time.

I'm not discounting or saying that ibogaine is ineffective or can't "interrupt" the addictive process, but in No Way does Ibogaine attenuate antinociception or inhibit or reverse tolerance and you have no proof that is scientific that states this, or do you, because if you found some I'd love to read it, because I haven't. The only medications that are reputable that have been shown to reverse or inhibit tolerance are N-Methyl-D-Aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonists such as dextromethorphan, ketamine, amantadine and others. Look up the research, and in the mean time show me the pharmacodynamics of ibogaine that show it's an NMDA receptor antagonist and I'll take your "first-hand accounts" and "scholarly youtube videos" into light.



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:01 pm 
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It appears I Have found some information pertaining to Ibogaine's pharmacodynamics in that it may indeed have NMDA receptor antagonist properties.

I will have to look into this matter further, however, I lend ibogaine some credence to being able to affect opioid tolerance and perhaps even inhibit or reverse it because of these properties.

Apologies, until then.



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Just FYI: Something doesn't HAVE to be proven to be true. For example, I know that when sub caused me to be constipated, I didn't shit for 9 days. I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

Although, yes, being proven helps us understand the validity, how something works, etc.

Maybe Ibogaine worked for Ibogahelp the same way that Suboxone worked for you. You said yourself that your definition of a miracle is:

"A miracle, to me, is Suboxone. Without it, I would be in jails, institutions or would be dead. That's a miracle."


If that is how you define a miracle, then if Ibogaine kept Ibogahelp or anyone else from jail, institutions or death, then wouldn't it be considered a miracle in that case as well?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:41 pm 
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pharmakon_logy wrote:
I will have to look into this matter further, however, I lend ibogaine some credence to being able to affect opioid tolerance and perhaps even inhibit or reverse it because of these properties.

Apologies, until then.



KeefSom


If Naltrexone can do it, why cannot Ibogaine?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:40 pm 
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yes'. and ibogain a little more costly and much harder to reach.

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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:42 am 
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I hear that Ibogane realy does take away cravings completely but that they come back if you have a long drawn out withdrawl....so it's probably ideal for a heroin addiction but not so much for suboxone or methadone addiction...basicaly the cravings come back....


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:29 pm 
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semperfiguy wrote:
basicaly the cravings come back....


I think this happens with everything?? seems that way... I recently went six days, w/o subs, I've been taking 4-8mg/day

well I had a mishap with the bank acct and sub was the first thing to go,

and let me tell ya, the cravings were no joke. Not for subs, but for my old friend......

it seems like, the rapid detox, ibogane, whatever the case, the big thing we'll ALWAYS fight, is the return of cravings....

***sigh***

maybe that's why so many statistics show the "relapse rate" for heroin/opiates/any opiate is like 85%

not so good odds......

http://edwardc.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Her ... nt-Recover


Why Heroin Addicts Can't Recover

They can get better. Lets lay that out there before going any further. In many cases, however, heroin addicts make repeated attempts to “get clean” that fail almost before they get off the ground. Almost everyone has heard a heart wrenching scenario in which an individual’s loved one got clean and managed to stay clean for extended periods of time before relapsing and, sadly, losing his or her life as a result. So why is it that so many heroin addicts simply can’t recover?




The Misunderstood State of True Addiction


Addiction takes many forms and the word is tossed around quite lightly by most people. Your mother may make jokes about being “addicted” to coffee or gardening. You see television specials focused on helping young adults who are “addicted” to video games and your friends work the word in when expressing their pleasure with something, such as being “addicted” to roller coasters. In reality, none of the above mentioned things constitutes a true, physical addiction (and no, no matter how much you love caffeine, you aren’t addicted to it).


True addiction comes when an individual is unable to property function without the needed substance. While video game addicts begrudgingly take time off from gaming to attend school or go to work, and coffee junkies have a soda with their supper, heroin addicts are still snorting, smoking or shooting their chosen substance.

Do other addictions exist? Yes. Can they really compare? No.


The Longer the Addiction, the Harder it Is to Break


Any ex-smoker will tell you that, the longer a person smokes, the harder it is to quit. The same principle can be applied to heroin use. This is because daily activities become ingrained into your daily life. Physical addiction aside, the brain is a powerful weapon. Feed it with a highly addictive substance, such as regular opiates, and it will turn on you, ready to devour your very psyche in an effort to get more.

High vs. Normal


Most people who try heroin do so for a simple high – and they achieve it, but at a cost. Once the body becomes accustomed to opiates (and this occurs extremely quickly) it will revolt if the drugs stop coming. The end result? Heroin addicts must shoot, snort or smoke even more heroin simply to feel normal.

Failing to get a “fix” leaves a heroin addict physically sick and psychologically tormented. They cannot function either psychologically or physically past a certain point. Sure, we’ve all seen the withdrawal videos of heroin addicts shaking and sweating while their bodies detoxify, but try and imagine what the addict is experiencing. Think you’ve got it? You don’t. The drug is so powerful, so demanding, that it strips the user of his or her sense of self. Its more powerful than self-respect, fear, pride and the love an individual has for his or her friends, family and children.


How Heroin is Made


Heroin is processed by adding acetic anhydride to simple morphine and bringing the substance to a boil. As the compounds coalesce, the raw heroin will sink.

Morphine and heroin are similarly addictive substances. Believe it or not, there are quite a few Americans out there running around addicted to morphine, but most of those have jobs that allow them access to the drug. Heroin is much, much easier to come by than morphine, which is closely controlled.


My Opiate Experience


First, let me state that I have never been addicted to heroin. Never even tried the stuff. I haven’t lost a friend or family member to it and I hope I never do. While researching heroin addiction, however, I found myself completely blown away by the sheer magnitude of what this drug can do to families. If you aren’t convinced, let me tell you my story.

I have a natural narcotics immunity, for starters. I didn’t discover this fact until I was 19 and landed myself in the hospital. You see, I’d had a kidney stone that I didn’t seek medical help for because I didn’t have insurance. The pain was regular, constant and sometimes debilitating. I self-medicated when I could with vodka and cranberry juice – a remedy suggested by, and supplied by, my grandmother, with whom I was living at the time. She couldn’t afford to send me to the doctor and I never told her how bad it really was.

After several weeks of this, one night the pain was so bad I couldn’t draw breath to scream. I literally crawled out of my room and was rushed to the hospital. I was given large quantities of various IV narcotics, none of which worked. The doctor on call declared that I must be a drug addict to not respond to any pain medicine. I didn’t hear this because I was hurting too much. I was in school and trying to get an education. I wasn’t doing any drugs – not even the recreational pot smoking my friends were doing.

My sister arrived later that morning. Being a nurse, she was furious that I never told her about the pain and she managed to explain to me that some people just have a natural immunity to narcotics.

The only thing that worked was morphine. The first time the staff gave it to me, I didn’t even feel it. I was screaming. I thought I was dying (and I was. My heart stopped sometime later and they managed to revive me). A second dose of morphine however and the pain went away. I felt it go into my bloodstream like thick, hot coffee. The heat then rushed across my face and torso like a cloud and the pain was gone. There was no sense of being “high” and I got no pleasure from it, but the pain was finally gone.

I was in the hospital for a week, receiving morphine intermittently when the pain got bad. I was also on a steady morphine drip. I had to remain to give the powerful antibiotics time to take effect. The last day I opted for ibuprofen rather than morphine. I was petrified of getting hooked on it. I knew very little about addiction, but I knew enough to worry.


The day after I got home I got sick. Very sick. I didn’t know what was happening to me. I had no idea that I was withdrawing from the morphine. It was one of the worst feelings I can ever remember. I was nauseated, too lethargic to move and, perhaps worst of all, I felt everything was pointless. My body radiated between sweating and freezing. My terminally ill father actually put me on his oxygen machine, thinking it would help. I would have done just about anything to make it stop. None of us realized it was actually a very mild opiate withdrawal.


And then, it went away and I got better and moved on with my life. It wasn’t until an accident six years later landed me back in the hospital on a morphine drip for several days and the scenario repeated itself that I realized what actually happened.

Considering my high tolerance for other narcotics and the very brief period of time that my body was exposed to the opiate, I can only begin to imagine what the withdrawal experience must be like for a heroin addict. Remember, heroin is more powerful than morphine.


Opiates for Heroin Detox


Drug treatment centers offer a myriad of heroin detox methods to help addicts reduce the pain of withdrawal. For those lucky few who managed to quit the drug “cold turkey,” it can be easy to point fingers and blame relapses on each individual’s lack of strength and motivation. In reality, all bodies are different and process toxic substances in different ways. What didn’t get a full hold on your brain could have driven another person to insanity.

Methadone is usually the drug of choice for heroin addicts. This reduces the need for a “fix” although cravings may still occur. Methadone can be used either permanently for “maintenance” or taped down over time as part of a slower detoxification program. The only problem with this method is that Methadone is, in and of itself, an incredibly addicting substance.


There are other detox methods, such as ultra-rapid detox, although I don’t know enough about it to either condone it or give a warning. I may update this when I have the chance to do more extensive research on the subject.





Heroin can kill you, and so can withdrawal.


Heroin can kill you, and so can withdrawal.


Heroin Withdrawal Can Kill You


Before you decide to tie your loved one to a chair and just force him to detox on his own, thinking he’ll thank you later when he’s clean (yes, people do this), you should remember that for addicts accustomed to injecting, snorting or smoking high amounts of heroin every day, withdrawal can be just as much of a death sentence as remaining on the drug.




In the event that such an unorthodox detox were to be successful, there’s still no gurantee that the individual won’t relapse. Ridding his physical system of opiates doesn’t rob his brain of the knowledge of what heroin can do. Just like a smoker who remembers what its like to smoke a cigarette after abstaining for a while, the heroin user may seek out additional drugs as a way of reclaiming that high.




You see, after a while heroin users don’t use because they want to. The pleasant feeling that once accompanied the drug is muted by the body’s overwhelming need to have opiates merely to feel normal. Detoxing can bring the high back. Thus, detoxification can, in itself, provide the former heroin addict with motivation to return to the drug.



•Heroin Withdrawal: Opiate Detox Symptoms, Treatment and Recovery
Heroin withdrawal symptoms occur when the addict undergoes opiate detox. Withdrawal symptoms, treatment methods and recovery rates vary for heroin addicts.


Family Members of Heroin Addicts


If you’re the friend or family member of a heroin addict, all you can do is encourage the person to get clean, be as supportive as possible and stay out of the way. No one who gets clean by force or overwhelming pressure is going to stay clean. As heart wrenching as it may sound, that person has to want to rid themselves of the heroin before they can ever do so – even if its for their families.

What you can do, however, is practice a bit of tough love. Some addicts need to hit rock bottom before they can begin to scramble back to the surface. The longer you hand out a free ride, the longer the user will remain a “comfortable user.” Sure, the addict is in less danger than if he were on the streets, but the longer he uses heroin, the harder it will be fore him to shake the habit.

If the heroin addict has children that live with him or her, your absolutely must notify the local police department or DFACS of the user’s addiction. Regardless of how good of a parent he or she claims to be, the smallest bit of heroin left on a paper or in a syringe can and will kill a small child. If your loved one were in his or her right mind, rest assured you’d be thanked. Even if you can’t save the addict, you can take steps to save the addict’s children.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:22 pm 
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I think a lot of you have it all wrong. I tried so many of these different types of drugs to get off of opiate. The problem is, it takes a very, very long time to kill opiate addiction. Maybe my problem was I wanted to get off the pills as quickly as I could. But, usually about a month, at the most, after I would quit taking by pills I would be back into the opiates.

So, I had to change something drastically. You can say what you want about Ibogaine but it literally "reset" my brain. It not only eliminated the withdrawals I was having, but it showed me a completely new side of myself and helped open my mind up to the honest truth about my current situation and my current life.

I have been clean ever since. Not that it has been easy. But, I dropped all my old friends and made the major changes that I needed to in order to stay off the drugs.

I hated being on pills. Maybe it's just me.

There are many treatment centers. I used Ibogaine University (http://www.IbogaineUniversity.com). I wouldn't say this is for everyone but I would definitely do some studying before you make a decision...if you are to that point.

For some people maybe the pills work. I've seen it work. But you know there isn't a one size fits all solution to this problem of addiction. Now I understand that.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Hi Julian and welcome to the forum!

Congratulations on finding a way to stay off opiates! Whether someone is skeptical of Ibogaine or not, I think that most people can agree that there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. I'm glad you found something that worked for you. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:10 am 
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Ibogaine is the best treatment for may allergies and drug addiction.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:42 am 
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I think your experience will definitely motivate many people who are going through this stage.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:48 pm 
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To the two posters above me. Ibogaine is illegal in the USA, so referring someone to use it is not only dangerous but probably against the law.

ankushabcd, what you forgot to say was "In my opinion". Many others have had bad experiences with ibogaine. It is a hallucinogenic substance and can do some very bad mental damage. I wouldn't touch it for anything.

That's my opinion.

When it comes to putting something as dangerous as Ibogaine into your system, one needs to do a great deal of researching to make an informed decision.

rule

P.S. We may remove the link. It is being discussed.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Ibogaine03,

I deleted the link in your post^^^above because as rule62 said, it is an illegal substance in the US, and a highly dangerous and controversial treatment. It is unknown what the full extent of damage to one's brain that can be done by ingesting hallucinogenic substances. While I've read some people singing its praises, I've also read about terrible, horrifying experiences that left the user physically ill and mentally traumatized, and possibly permanently brain damaged.
This is a forum for recovery from drug addiction, and advising the use of illegal substances doesn't sit well, and is against the rules and is possibly illegal, as rule also pointed out. Please feel free to post about your own experience with addiction/recovery, but please refrain from advising about the use of illegal drugs or posting links to sites thst promote such. Thanks for understanding our position.


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