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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:26 am 
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Hi All,

I'm new here, just trying to make my way around the message board and figure things out as best as I can during my incredibly groggy, uncomfortable state. That said, I apologize if this is posted in the wrong spot as I am already not the most computer-literate person.

My story:
I'm a 29-yr-old female. I was on 60-80 mg oxycodone for approximately a year and a half, prescribed for a medical condition with chronic pain. Long story short-I ran out of funds to see my primary doc (no insurance), and had to stop taking my oxy cold-turkey. I made it 2 days before it occured to me that I could see the same detox psysician who helped me wean off of xanax three years ago for a fraction of the price. He put me on a 6-month-plan, weaning down from 8mg. I was given my medication for the first month, and managed to stretch it four months...therefore, I have been taking suboxone for a total of four months. I decided not to return to the doctor after I ran out. I took my last dose 4 days ago. I weaned down to 1mg for four days prior to making the jump.

On to the now:
day 1: slight depression, temperature-control issues, restless legs
days 2-NOW (4): The best way I can think to describe the withdrawals is having the flu (body aches, hot and cold flashes that come and go constantly, fever ranging from 96.2-101.4), food poisoning (upset stomach, though this hasn't been as bad as expected), my skin feels like it has a second-degree burn, I'm aggitated, depressed, and restless. I've gotten maybe 3 good hours of sleep since day 2.

I've read the horror stories, and it seems that most people think this detox is almost equal in severity to quitting narcotics (if not, slightly less), but seems to drag on for a minimum of two weeks. Had I known that prior to going on suboxone I would have absolutely chosen the slightly more severe withdrawal that goes along with stopping opiates over the prolonged withdrawal that seems to come with stopping suboxone.

Everyone seems to have a different opinion on this, from being on higher doeses for a longer period making the withdrawal proccess easier, to the complete opposite (claiming one should not take this drug in excess of 3-4 weeks). I would say that I've heard the latter is better, but who am I to say for sure?

The bright side of my story is that I never did abuse my prescription pills, though I was probably prescribed an excess of what was needed to control my pain. I also did not use them to get high; therefore, I do not have cravings for any medication, including the suboxone. Of course, I'd love to have suboxone right now, but for the sole purpose of stopping the torment that I am currently existing in. I can't imagine living in this state for another eleven days, or more.

To those who have said to go out and jog, and eat a high-protein diet...all I can say is count your lucky blessings. I have been commended for my extremely high pain tolerance since I was a child, and the thought of walking ten steps seems like a distant dream. Eating? I haven't even considered it!

WHAT I'VE TRIED:

To alleviate my symptoms I have tried sleeping pills, benedryl, flexeril, aleve, tylenol, and hot baths. The baths seem to provide minor, temporary relief. All else seems to be a waste of time, and the flexeril makes me angry. I've also continued my normal dose of klonpin, which I've been on for the past two years for neuropathy and panic attacks. I wonder if a supplement like 5HTP or SamE would help. They're mood enhancers, and are supposed to help with endorphin production, such as after taking MDMA. I also wonder if taking an anti-depressent to help regulate brain chemicals is helpful or hurtful?

I do have a few more questions, if anyone has a flat answer.
1) Does the emergency room help with this type of situation at all? Is there anything that can be given for relief of symptoms, which I have not listed above, to help cope?
2) Of course, most of the people reading this are addicts and should never go this route, but as I stated above, I never abused my prescription or got high from the medication. I am wondering if taking narcotic pain pills would be helpful. Would it actually intensify the withdrawal or do people just say that to scare addicts from taking more pills? I don't see how it would really hurt, as my bosy is no longer addicted to oxycontin, but rather a new addiction to suboxone.
3) Does anyone know what I can reasonably expect in terms of intensity and duration of withdrawal symptoms? I know there is no real science to this as everyone is different, but the general consensus does seem to say if one can make it through the 4th, 5th, and 6th day it begins to get easier. How many would agree with that?

Thanks for the read!

SBear


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Greetings and welcome to this very wonderful forum. You WILL get the best advise from people who have gone thru exactly what you are currently going thru now. I have been tapering off sub from 4 mg. since Sept. and I am at .25 twice a day. I feel your pain, maybe a bit less extreme as I have not CT. From what I have read on this forum, CLONIDINE is going to help you abundantly if you can get a doctor to perscribe you this medication. There is a ton of info on this forum about clonidine. Look thru the stopping suboxone forum and you will find so much info. *Your hot bathes, keep them up. Use epsome salt in the bathes. It provides your body Magnesium whis is absorbed thru your skin, it helps me. If you are not eating, force yourself to AT LEAST get nourishment thru fluids such as chicken broth, gatorade, anything you can tolerate. Your body needs energy to heal.* Exercize, well any fresh air you can get will be a good start. I understand day 11 is commonly the worst for many. If you stopped at 1 mg, chances are you will be feeling better around the 2 week mark. Everyone is different, but generally speaking this is what I have concluded by reading the forum. Oh and a healthy diet of fresh fruit and veggies as opposed to pre made fast food will also aid you in your recovery. GOOD LUCK and I am CERTAIN there will be much much more and better advise than what I have offered you here. Hang in there. (personally, I would stay away from painkillers, but that is me)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:32 pm 
SBear, this is so unfortunate. You are someone who should never have had to deal with horrible w/d, let alone from Suboxone.

The emergency room will not help you.

Loperamide (Immodium) can help your symptoms. It is a potent opioid but does not cross the blood brain barrier, and is obviously not recreational. I've heard plenty of people say that loperamide helped them during detox.

You can also try ordering kratom. Lots of people use it to combat w/d and PAWS.

I hope you feel better soon.

How do you plan to control your chronic pain? Hopefully it has subsided to the extent that you can live opiate free.

Stay warm.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:30 pm 
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Sbear, I would call my detox physician, let him know you've tapered off, and ask him for some Clonidine (a blood pressure med), it has helped myself and others greatly, and it will definitely help with the rstls legs and sleep. It's unfortunate you had jump at 1mg, that's still a potent dose for Sub. At this point I'd say you're probably half way thru the worst of the acute phase, everyone's different, so it's hard to say, I jumped at .25mg and my worst days were 3 & 4, by day 5 the cloud lifted and things got better from there. I know how hard it is to eat when you're going thru this, but at least try to keep yourself hydrated, water, meal replacement drinks, etc. Also, like Ironic said, Imodium can also help with the GI issues. Sleep is your greatest ally in this, the lack of it just amplifies your symptoms, but it's also hard to attain during this time. Again I'd contact your Dr. to see if he can help you with some meds, just make sure he knows everything your already taking, benzos, flexeril, etc, so you don't get yourself in a potentially dangerous situation. Hang in there, it will get better.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Hi guys,
Thanks a lot for the replies! Sorry for the delay in getting back, I've had some odd twists and turns with this ordeal. In short, day 4 was a mini-break, and my best day. Unfortunately I woke up on day 5 and experienced my worst day. Day 6 was my second worst day. I'm now on day 8, and have just eaten for the first time. I feel noticably better (similar to my day 4). I am *really* hoping things will continue to improve from here-not revert back as it did before. Bummer for me, this ordeal has stresssed my body & made my MS flare. Additionally, around day 3, I developed a severe bladder infection, which I am currently on antibiotics for. I'm still having issues with urine retention, blurry vision, pain mostly at night, no bowel movements in 8 days, and particularly dizziness upon sitting & standing to the point of passing out, leaving me in a reclined position 95% of the days. Last night I took the trazadone (blood pressure meds to induce sleep), which my doc seems to think are better than clonodine, though I don't trust his judgment anymore. I also took benedryl and melatonin and got exactly 20 minutes of sleep. The prior few nights I had managed 5 hours or so, so I haven't a clue why last night's sleep evaded me. Please keep your fingers crossed that I'm on a better path now. Thanks again for all of your insight and suggestions! I wish you all the very best in your paths to recovery!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:03 pm 
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I did not know Trazodone was a Blood Pressure Med?

Clonidine does not work for most people in regards to Subutex/Suboxone withdrawals, so I hear. May work for some.

You see the depression happens to nearly everybody after stepping off from Subutex. I have read stories of people being suicidle post-suboxone/subutex, I believe they are P.A.W.S. Even the people who have been on bup for only 3 months they still feel very depressed, even if they never had depression issues before.

About bladder infection that I believe may be related to bup because I also have pain in the bladder. I went for a check up and was given Naprexone..If it doesn't get better I have to give a urine sample, could be hernia who knows, but I believe its related to me tapering off the subutex. Man we don't know what long term damage Subutex/Suboxone can do or Buprenex or Temgescis. I have not read any studies of affetcs of bup because they have not done any, thats the scariest part. I know Temgesics have been available for decades but those are Temgesics 0.2 and people were not on them for long term, and its quite different to high dose maintence bup treatment. In Scotland there were people struggling to get off Temgescis a few decades ago, man that is scary too, no wonder I see and hear people struggle to get off Buprenorphine. I have read and read and researched much as possible and I cannot find any anybody who had taken taken bup for over 1 year taper off and staye clean, yes there are 1 or people here but anywhere else it's a big struggle. I have never ever seen or heard about any long term bup user for over 4 years stay clean either, they all said the withdrawals, P.A.W.S and this very horrific depression was the worst hence of relapsing or going to Methadone instead. There have been many consistant cases of people not being able to sleep for 3-4 weeks and only getting few hours of sleep now and then for 5-7 months, again that's so scary.

I actually heard from 1 or 2 people thatjumping from 16mg to 32mg is better as you let your body taper off? it's a protocol in place apparently in some places. It's been said weaning down is actually worse and doesnt make any difference for the better, man again thats scary..I've weaned down to .5mg yet I still feel no different then when I was on 8mg, again this is scary. Just hope it goes well for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:37 pm 
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I honestly thought there were long-term studies of suboxone users done on groups in Europe before the drug was ever used in the United States for addiction therapy + treatment.

I can't find much of anything either as it relates to the long-term use of Suboxone...but I'm definitely a long-term user.

I'm going to be hitting 4 years of Suboxone use, with 3+ solid years, of daily use really soon. I have no issues, none that I didn't already have.

Honestly I'd say that NOW, versus when I first started, I use the Suboxone more for pain management..I have some serious dental issues..and knee problems (actually had a knee surgery back before I got addicted to opiates -- which didn't have much bearing on my opiate addiction either).

But using my Suboxone as I do, the way I dose it, I guess it's absorbed into my body more as a pain management solution...because I don't dose all at once...

Prescribed at 2.5 films per day. I don't EVER take my suboxone all at once. Normally, I don't even take a whole suboxone film all at once. The normal day for me..I wake up, and I tear my films in half for that days use. I take a half sometime in the earlier morning hours...like 6 or 7am. Then I take it throughout the day as I need it.

I would definitely like to hear others and their long-term usage results. The things I notice:
Sleep...that's my main thing. I never sleep much...2 or 3 hours, but I'm sure that is mostly to do with me being a stay-home father. Not working and being worn out at bedtime makes me not sleep all night..but when I wake up at 2am, I'm fully awake and ready to go!

Another complaint...actually going to pee. Like...I'll go stand in the restroom, and wait...and wait...and wait...
But sometimes it doesn't take but just a normal amount of time to start peeing...other times, it takes me a few seconds to get started.

No complaints on sex. I don't "crave" sex as I used to before opiate addiction...nor do I have sex with my wife until she gets tired of me and tells me to get off of her, like WITH the opiate addiction...because when I was doing pills, that's what it came down to. I just couldn't get off when I was spaced out...but now..It's just normal. We both have our moments, usually at the same time...or she gets hers just a minute or 2 before I do...just normal husband + wife stuff in the bedroom since Suboxone.


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 Post subject: Thank you!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Hi Sweet16,

This is Sara, or "sbear29" from the forum. I wanted to thank you, very much, for being the first person to respond to my post. You have been a big help in my journey, and I really appreciate all of the kind words and advice you have given! I wish you the very best of luck in your journey.

By the way, I'm now on day 10 of this horrific ordeal and I am doing considerably better. Apart from now having symptoms of spastic bladder at night and feeling like I constantly have to pee, as well as still having no appetite or ability to sleep, everything else seems to be fading into the past. I've been consistently better for two days now so I'm thinking I am through the worse!

Thanks again and you are in my thoughts,
Sara


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:54 pm 
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My gf and I met about 6 months ago when we were in the same detox group. Both of us were somewhat dependent on opiates and were put on subox. Although we didn't know each other before forming the pill dependency, we both laugh about having had a very healthy sex drive, as well as being into adventureism. We laugh because both our sex drives were muted to the point where its been almost nonexistent, and this hasn't changed for either of us while on subox.

A few weeks ago we decided to attempt a withdrawl on subox and that I would be the first to do it. Our thought was that I could help my gf with the pitfalls making it easier for her when she did it. I have experienced most of the nightmares that people talk about here on the forum. I'm now in "day 12" and thank god I'm doing a lot better. It's almost behind me and I feel a lot, lot better. At this point my sex drive has come storming back stronger than ever, but since she hasn't begun, her's is still pretty dead. I know all of this is somewhat different for each of us, but can you ladies (sbear and sweet16) share your own experience? Do I have anything to look forward to once my gf begins coming out the other side? Hoping there is at least one very pleasant thing for us on the other side of this.


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 Post subject: Almost over it
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:12 am 
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Sorry I didn't see your post sooner. Our situations are very similar.

The hospital will treat you like a junkie I dont recommend it.
People have lied and abused the hospitals and they just pass you off on a rehab center or send you home.

Sounds like youve got thru the worst of it, but it's not over yet. Stay away from alcahol, energy drinks and caffene...

Excercise thru the day, I go out and jog 4 times a day and sleep like a baby.
Wake up and quick jog to the store, drink a vitiman water and jog home 1/4 mile trip
Same at lunch and after dinner.
An hour before bed I jog and then run and this helps more then anything else!

I am also on day 12

The sex drive issue effects guys too. My girl loved that part!

Glad you're feeling better

XXX
ZERO


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