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Do you think Suboxone REALLY helped your life?
Yes 91%  91%  [ 40 ]
No 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:03 pm 
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So i've been on 4mg suboxone twice a day for about two months now. And while most will say '2 mos clean omg!', I'm not clean. I am a suboxone addict now, someone who is addicted to a drug that just causes me so much misery on a daily basis. Since my induction, i have lost probably close to fifteen to twenty pounds. My appetite is shit, my depression has gotten much worse since i stopped using (oxy that is), and I feel like i have no interest in anything anymore. At least when I was addicted to Oxy, I still felt somewhat alive (and no I'm not just talking about when I was using). The worst part, I feel, about suboxone, is the CHRONIC nausea. I vomit generally three to four days out of the week, and I feel this is COMPLETELY due to the Sub. Honestly, fuck a country that makes people go on POTENT opiates that give you none of the good effects, but all of the bad effects, instead of a place like Holland, which just lets it's junkies get medical grade heroin instead of some shitty experimental drug like fucking suboxone.

/end rant.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:13 pm 
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I'm sorry you're not doing well. Yes, I fully believe sub saved my life. I can't tell you how much happier and stable I am now than before. I don't want to be high anymore and my life has completely turned around for the better.

I don't know anything about your addiction history, but you could be on too high of a dose. That's just a guess. If it were me (and I'm no doctor), I would try the 4 mg only in the morning and skip the PM dose. The other thing is you could just be one of that tiny number of people who react poorly to buprenorphine.

Have you felt this way the whole time? How did your induction go? How much oxy were you taking before your sub induction? That additional info might be beneficial. I hope you feel better soon.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:24 pm 
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I'm 22 years old. I used roughly 40mg oxy IR a day. Did that for a few months then realized I needed to stop (ran out of $, started having anger issues). I still do get 'high', I smoke marijuana a couple times a day, still, and I have no intention on ending that (I feel a completely sober life, at this point, with my extreme depression, would not even be worth living). Honestly Oxy is my DOC, the best high I ever felt tbh, even at this point, I almost half regret quitting due to how awesome those few months were (when i could afford it). As far as the induction went, I was WDing at the time and he gave me about 4-5mg of Sub and I felt great although I puked that same day. My Dr. knows about the vomitting and the weight loss and seems to do nothing about it. Also, isnt 40mg of oxy SAFER than 8mg of Bupe a day? I mean, the bupe will fuck your tolerance up way more than the oxy will, and both have HORRID withdrawls. Seems like they just kinda replaced a bad drug with something worse but socially acceptable (aka I don't get high). Maybe I should've just gone to Methadone...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:32 pm 
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I don't know if Suboxone saved my life, but it sure as hell allowed me to taper down to a low enough dose where I felt I could stop taking it...that would have NEVER, EVER in a million years happened while I was on Oxy's. For me, it's the drug that allowed me to be drug free!

Your reaction to Suboxone is certainly atypical. Personally, I think you are one of the few who Buprenorphine does not agree with and that's a shame. I'm also not so sure you might not have some other medical issue(s) going on.

I truly hate that Suboxone is not working for you, because you certainly seem like a perfect candidate for Suboxone. I know it helped me end a 13 year addiciton to pain killers.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:38 pm 
First off, subutex gave me my life back. I would not be where im at today had i not made the choice i made to go on subutex. However the thing is, and im not a doctor but i would almost guarantee you that depending on how long you've been using oxy, your body is still trying to adjust to life without oxy. Its possible that the naloxone in the suboxone is making you nauseated. Congrats on the 2 months clean by the way. Dont take this the wrong way, but you cant expect to just take suboxone and everything be peachy. Their are many stages to this process especially in the beginning. The beginning being the worst in some ways. Im in my 18th month and could not be happier. If i were you, i would either try to switch to subutex because it does not contain naloxone or just try to hang in their a bit longer. Suboxone does not just magically make everything better. I was taking about 30 to 60mg's of methadone a day and in the beginning of my treatment, i would wake up some mornings feeling like death. Throwing up back to back to back. But i hung in their and it was all worth it because i came out on top and i have my life back. I really hope and pray that you will try to hang in their. Heck, even in my 7th month my mind was still pretty twisted. Physically i was good but mentally i still wasnt as clear headed as i am now. I guess you could say i was still pretty toxic. I really do believe that if you can get through the first 3 to 4 months things will start to change for you, for the better. All the pain and suffering i've went through was well worth where im at today. Goodluck with everything and i hope this helps. Again im not a doctor. Im only speaking of my own experience.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:48 pm 
With all due respect, im pretty sure a country didnt 'make' you take anything. If suboxone isnt working for you, then maybe methadone would be a better choice for you. No matter your decision, either one is much better than active addiction. Another thing, you say suboxone is socially acceptable or however you said it. Um, im not sure where your from but its hardly excepted. If anything its frowned upon. Anyways, take care and let us know how things work out. ~PEACE~


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Hey, so sorry to hear about the negative effects you've been suffering. I agree, it could be you'd feel better on a lower dose, or it could be you just have a bad reaction to sub, or it could be that with a little more time those bad effects will go away. Still, i know that losing weight when you are not trying to can be serious, and all that vomiting too, is obviously unpleasant, to say the least. I'm sorry that it sounds like your doctor isn't much help, but have you asked about adjusting your dose? or considered trying a different doctor? I notice though, that it seems like a lot of doctors don't know everything about sub and some are not very involved in their patients' process other than prescribing them meds....Which reminds me, you mention really bad depression and anger issues too--I've suffered a lot (most of my life), with both of those issues and I wonder have you ever been on antidepressant medication or considered it? My sub doctor is a psychiatrist and prescribes my antidepressant meds as well. any doctor can prescribe antidepressants but some will prefer that you see a psychiatrist if you haven't already been stablized on psych meds, or at least tried them before. But overall, yeah, sub helps a lot of people, but it's easier for some than others and it doenst' solve everything overnight either, of course....personally, when I was a heroin addict methodone didn't help me at all, and I know we aren't supposed to debate sub vs 'done here, but I guess I'll just say, it's good that both are available so people have some choice. I'm with the others, I think maybe you should try lowering your dose to 4 mgs once a day, and try to stick with it a little longer. But I'm not a doctor, and it'd really be better if you had the advice of a doctor who you can talk to about all your health issues, as it's true, it's possible there is something going on besides the sub with the weight loss and vomiting--it doesn't sound at all like a typical reaction to sub in any case. I wish I had more substantial help for you, but....I hope finding this forum and people to discuss your situation with helps some anyway. I hope you start feeling better soon too. I also agree with the others that two months off of oxy is major progress, and whatever else, I hope you keep going. I know it's not easy and I'll be honest, I still miss getting high too but...active addiction is a way to just ruin my life, I know that for certain from experience.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 3:06 pm 
I'm with Romeo.....I'm not going to say "Suboxone saved my life," but it has helped me. I've been on it for 16 + months and am trying to get off it now.
I'm sorry you're having such a bad time with it. As the others have said, it certainly is not a CURE for opiate addiction and in some ways I agree with the multitudes who say things like "It's trading one drug for another" or similar statements. I can't deny that that particular statement is essentially quite true. We have gotten off our former drug/s of choice, but we're still taking a very potent opiate, albeit a partial agonist. While on Suboxone, our tolerance is not decreasing and we're really no closer to being truly opiate-free than we were before. Our receptors are still being saturated, yet we are not getting that 'benefit' of the high. And for you and some others, that is not acceptable. And that's okay......The question that begs answering however, is "Now what?"
I assume you were unable to quit oxy on your own, or else you would have, right? It's very difficult to wean off agonists, we all know that. As difficult as I have found it to wean off Suboxone, it is something that I can do. It's taking forever! But I am doing it. And so can you, if that's what you want to do. What Sub has done for me is allow me the time to think straight, get my act together, and get used to living without the drugs and the highs/lows that went with it. It has still been really hard though.....the medication has not done all the work. If only it were that simple!
As for your particular situation.....I'm not a doctor either. And Suboxone never made feel terrible really, like it has you. But it kind of sounds like you might be taking more than you need. Perhaps you'd feel way better if you did as suggested and went so far as to even half your current dose. This should be something you could work on with your doctor's help, but unfortunately a lot of the docs out there aren't that knowledgeable or helpful when directing their patients with this particular drug. I do know that for me, I did feel better when I brought my dose down and I have spent the great majority of all my time on Suboxone at or below 4mg/day.
Most of all, I would encourage you to look past the medication and further into what you got you here to begin with. I feel that what matters the most is finding the way that will work for the individual to keep them out of the cycle of active addiction and all the destruction that brings with it. And that varies for most of us. For some, it means taking this orange pill (or film now) for the rest of their life.....not what I want personally.....but for some, that is the choice that will keep them alive, functional, productive and as happy as they're able to be and that's fine.
One last thing.....You might feel right now that you were happier on oxy, but think about that one. Were you really? Were you truly happy inside? Did you feel good about the way you were living your life? I'm not gonna lie.....I miss it too.....that euphoria, probably always will to some extent. I don't miss any other aspect of it thoug! Not one! Happy? No. I definitely was not happy with all that mess. I bet you weren't either. The whole thing really does suck! There is no easy answer! But staying on oxy is a one-way road to Hell. There aren't enough of them on the planet to get you through a lifetime of tolerance building, dependence, addiction, withdrawal, and on and on the list goes.....there's just no end to it! I knew when I started Suboxone that I had to do something! Am I 'happy' to be on it? No, not really. But I don't have to stay on it forever if I don't want to. And neither do you.
I don't know if I've helped or not, but I do feel for you and I'm sorry you're not happy. Only you can change that. Let me know if I can help in any way. Meantime, perhaps try dropping your dose and see if you don't feel an improvement within a few days.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:34 pm 
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DOQ and the others have given you a lot of good advice...I just wanted to mention, regarding missing the DOC and getting high...Well, when I was on heroin everyday, i had good days and bad days just like I would without heroin. And it got to the point, as I believe it does with most if not all addicts, where I was mostly just using to keep from going into WD and even the supposedly fun part of getting high when I even COULD feel the effects of the H, was not fun anymore, mostly I'd just end up in a stupor that was at best, not that painful because I wasn't all the way conscious. Which leads me to the point of self-medicating--I think a lot of people start on drugs because they (we) are looking for relief from severe emotional pain. And, the fact is, as I've seen some people mention on this forum lately, actually, that can work--you CAN get some relief from emotional pain by taking opiates. The problem is, once we're addicted, well, then it's generally a progressive problem and things tend to get worse and worse. I keep thinking about the title of your original post "every day gets worse and worse"--I have to say, that sounds like how I feel when I'm having severe depression...and severe depression can be chronic too. So, sorry if I'm rambling too much here, but I just wanted to stress to you also that depression after getting off of an opiate you're addicted to, like oxy, or heroin, often DOES cause depression. Maybe you have been prone to depression separate from your addiction issues, or maybe not, either way it sounds like you are suffering from depression now...I don't think suboxone is likely to cause depression (in fact it is sometimes used to treat depression) but it also will not necessarily keep you from getting depressed. So....I'm just trying to say maybe you would like to consider how you can try to address your depression issues. Many people do go on antidepressant medication for a while when they first get off of opiates, or for other kinds of "situational depression." then there are those of us, like myself, who have had life-long depression who may choose to stay on antidepressants indefinitely. and there are people who don't wish to treat their depression with medication and try to manage it by paying attention to their overall lifestyle--diet, exercise, enough sunshine, talk therapy, etc. Ah, but there is no magic pill for depression or for addiction...As for magic pills, as far as I'm concerned, suboxone is as close as it gets, but it's not perfect for everyone. and I really have no idea what to say about your stomach/vomiting/nausea issues. That seems serious since it's so frequent. and yeah, it COULD be a side effect from the sub.

As for sub being "just another opiate" well, I guess no one can argue that. As far as I'm concerned, opiates aren't all bad and having to take medication for whatever reason is not all bad--it's better than needing medication and not being able to get it, seems to me. The main thing is being as healthy and functional as possible, with or without without medication, in my opinion. Suboxone really does help many many people break the cycle of progressive addiction to opiates and helps them (us) to manage our lives (with all the problems that go along with even a healthy life) instead of having out lives in danger of being just consumed by progressive addiction.

Again, Feltbetteronoxy, I hope you find what works best to help you, whether it means a different dose of sub, or getting off sub altogether, or even methadone, which I know that methadone DOES work well for some people. Whatever you do, it' s likely that at least sometimes you will miss your old DOC. I believe most all of us do, at least on occasion. As time passes, most of us find we get more and more distance and think about it less and less. But I certainly am not "there" yet, myself. But...for everyone, it takes time to stablize. Again, I wish you all the best and I hope you find the communication and information on this forum to be of some help.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:41 pm 
IMO 8mgs of sub is way more potent than 40mgs oxy which is probably why you are getting sick. For example if someone who never took opiates before took 40mgs oxycodone they would get realy high Im sure but still be able to function but if that same person took an 8mg sub they would be completely layed out, Ive seen it happen a couple times. Oh and what you said about "fuck the country who lets us take a potent opioid with all the bad side effects of withdrawal but no euphoria" I have to say I whole heartedly agree with you. I might get some negative feedback about saying this but Id much rather just have an Rx for morphine daily and maintain on that. Im sorry but sub is damaging us emotionaly just as much or worse than full agonists if we want to get off it so I don't see the difference except for the fact that the government doesnt want anyone to feel good or be happy. My drug of choice was morphine in the form of poppy pods and when i used sure I prefered to nod off but if I knew I had obligations I would use a maintenance dose and actualy be way more productive at work than when I was sober since having that boost would make work not seem so horrible. The only times problems arised was when I couldnt afford my fix and the legalality issue, both of which would be non existent if it was legaly dispensed through a doctor and for the fact that you can get morphine cheap. Im grateful for suboxone but honestly its because its realy the only thing available for maintenance (yes I know about methadone but if you want to live any sort of regular life you cant do that while chained to a clinic). If methadone were dispensed through a doctor like subs I would switch in a heartbeat no question. Not because you can get high from it because well after the honeymoon phase you would be tolerant and the buzz would go away but because full agonists will work much better at what subs are supposed to do. I dont know about everyone else but like the original poster the longer I take subs the less effective they are. I still get cravings frequently, my legs ache horribly every single day, Im depressed, they constantly give me headaches etc. Im not knocking suboxone because it has kept me clean over a 100 something days now. The price issue of subs is also a huge burden when you have a dickhead doctor that wont let you get generic subutex despite the fact that i'm not an IV user and test clean on all my UA's and have given him zero reason to not trust me. Sorry for the rant its just Im getting kind of frustrated with suboxone lately, and just for the record I do not just take subs and thats it I attend intensive outpatient treatment 3 times a week and go to meetings on top of that so I am making an active effort in my recovery.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:43 pm 
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SUBOXONE HAS SAVED MY LIFE 100%

But honestly i just cant post on this subject after reading a few statements on certain things just makes me wonder if some people get on suboxone for the wrong reasons! TO me it seems people get on suboxone hopeing they will still get that euphoria but be accepted as being clean. But once they find out that sub doesnt get you high they blame there problems on suboxone! I dont know anymore i just think people need to realize when this is happening that is not suboxone but its youself wanting this to be true to give you an excuse to go back to active addiction.

And i promise you guys haveing a rx script for powerfull opiates is not what you all think its cracked up to be.

And im sorry if im coming off mean and rude but im not goanna sugar coat things when people blame there problems on suboxone when they say stuff like this.

"fuck the country who lets us take a potent opioid with all the bad side effects of withdrawal but no euphoria"

BUt i said how i fell and thats not im not goanna get into a flameing war over the net.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:22 pm 
I was having strong opiates delivered to my door every 2 weeks, thats how I got my pods so I know what its like to have opiates 24/7. Ive used lots of oxy in my day and a big dose of poppy pods blew even a couple hundred mgs of that out of the water so having those on hand everyday for cheap and no trouble getting them is just the same as having an Rx. I knew what suboxone was all about when I got on it, I was looking for no euphoria if thats what I wanted I would of stayed on pods, I wanted to get clean but I also wanted to be happy not lethargic and depressed everyday which is in part from suboxone. Pods keep you well just as long as suboxone does maybe a little longer they have a 48 hour half life, they actualy work well for maintenance if you can control yourself and not take more than you should. Since I know you were referring to my post I will say that I'm entitled to my opinion and if I'd rather take a maintenance dose of morphine daily thats my choice and if suboxone actualy took away cravings like its marketed to do I wouldnt even give that a second thought. Im glad everyone here loves suboxone so much thats great but if I have a different opinion o well, as soon as i get a job i will be switching to methadone like I should of in the first place. I heard a pod cast the other day by a doctor in florida who said he would rather treat a heroin addict trying to get clean vs someone on suboxone because suboxone is almost impossible to get off, he even said it can carry a worse withdrawal than methadone. So if Im gonna pay the piper just the same as I would with methadone I might as well get on the meth since its so much more effective at what it does.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:57 pm 
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I just want to caution people about making unsubstantiated claims about suboxone withdrawal being worse than anything else out there. I've never seen any evidence, even anecdotal, to support that. Quite the opposite is true...most of the people here who have quit have said it's nowhere near as bad as full agonists (which aren't as bad as methadone). Besides, if we could have tapered off our drug of choice we would have, but most of us couldn't. But we are able to taper off suboxone. That's all I'll say on the subject.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:09 pm 
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I'm pretty sure you can post here from Holland, that would make both you and I happy, Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:46 pm 
I never once said anything about it being a fact that its worse than anything. I said word for word that I heard a doctor on a podcast saying it. Maybe it would be best if I stop posting on this forum because it seems like if you say anything other than "omg suboxone saved my life, it is an absolute miracle drug" you get criticized or attacked.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:55 pm 
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I said I was cautioning about making unsubstantiated claims. We need to balance things that we "hear" somewhere. That's all my point was. I did not attack you and I surely did not intend to criticize. I'm sorry if you felt either of those things. I hope you will reconsider not posting. This forum is great because of all the unique experiences, your included. Just take care in what or how you say something. That's all I was trying to say. I apologize if I upset you. I mean that sincerely.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:07 pm 
Yea sorry to seem defensive, it wasnt you in particular its just some repsonses that ive gotten in the last week or so. I mean dont get me wrong I am grateful to have suboxone as a tool to help me but it just seems some days it works pretty damn good but other days it doesnt at all. Its like I think to myself that the pharm is mixing in half placebos half suboxone (I dont realy think that its just how it feels). The part that is hard for me is the fact that my Restless legs have persisted throughout my sub treatment and I just cant feel comfortable. Thats why I tried to get the generic subutex so I could go up to 8mgs but I was turned down so Im stuck at 4mgs. My doc agreed to up it to 8mgs but wouldnt do the generic so it was pretty pointless since I cant afford the 8mg. Im also having a realy hard time sleeping, I want to see about trying low dose ambien since it says it helps with sleep and restless leg syndrome but im sure my doc will find some reason to have a problem with ambien as well. He offered clonodine to me to take daily for RLS but in all honesty I dont how safe it would be to take high blood pressure everyday when my blood pressure isnt high.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Suboxowned - I'm sorry you're having a hard time. Is it possible that you actually have Restless Leg Syndrome? That would also make sleep difficult. They do make meds specifically for that. I can't imagine you're still having withdrawals, but I suppose anything is possible.

I don't blame you for being pissed about the generic. You are RIGHT AT or AROUND the ceiling, so your receptors may not be fully saturated, which might account for it feeling like it's not working. Plus the 4 mg ceiling isn't set it stone, you could even be below the ceiling. And you may be having cravings, too. Can you afford to just go up to 6 mg? It could make a big difference for you. Just a thought. Hang in there.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:06 pm 
I never had RLS before my opiate use, unless its possible to develop it permanently from opiate use I dont see how I would have it. Im def not still going through withdrawal but I just dont understand my legs hurting when Im sitting or laying down. Id like to go up to 6mgs but even that extra 2mgs a day costs an extra 60$ so I cant realy do it since its already breaking the bank. Its ok tho Ill just have to stick it out till I get a job or if a miracle happens and I get on the PAP but Im not holding my breath on that one. I'll be alright tho just gonna deal with it a day at time and get through it until I get work and then everything will be better.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:18 am 
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If someone already asked this, then I apologise but, after the pill disolves in your mouth, do you spit out the excess saliva or swallow it? Maybe naloxone has a negative effect on you if you swallow it.


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