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Do you think Suboxone REALLY helped your life?
Yes 91%  91%  [ 40 ]
No 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 44
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 6:37 am 
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By the way, I switched from methadone to Suboxone because the w/drawals are 100x's worse that anything else, IMO. Detoxing off 3 grams of H a day was nothing compared to 'done w/drawals. That's a road you don't want to go down. Trust me. Lets put it this way, I know people who detoxed off Suboxone, but I don't know anyone who detoxed off methadone. And good luck going on vacation. I know a girl who went to the Bahamas,( she gave herself 2 years to detox, thinking that she would be done by the time her vacation came around but wasn't), where there aren't any methadone clinics, so she had to bring a fist full of Percs to make it through the week. Some vacation, huh? Even though I was clean for 9+ years on it, detoxing off it was/is nearly impossible. Weekly, morning appts. with a councilor who doesn't want to see you anymore that you want to see them, which usually makes you late for work, and they are of no help, at least the 6 I had. Driving there EVERY DAY gets old the first week. Just do a lot of thinking before making a switch.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:59 am 
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quadracersteve wrote:
If someone already asked this, then I apologise but, after the pill disolves in your mouth, do you spit out the excess saliva or swallow it? Maybe naloxone has a negative effect on you if you swallow it.


Some people swallow and others spit. Although the naloxone is supposed to be inert when swallowed, some people theorize that it could be what causes headaches for some people. And so when they stop swallowing and start spitting it out, their headaches are said to dissipate. After nearly 2 years on sub, I've always swallowed and have never had any hint of a headache from it, but others have a real problem with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:40 pm 
I could never bring myself to spit it out despite the headaches. There is still most likely bupe under tongue being absorbed even after you swallow it so spitting it out seems wasteful.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:39 am 
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Well, it seems that feltbetteronoxys has disappeared, but the poll results have not. Clearly, the majority here believe that suboxone has done them some good.

Personally, I believe it helped ME to save my life. It did not save my life. I saved my life, with the help of some medication.

The tone on the forum lately seems to have sort of migrated from one of gratitude and happiness to one of anger and regret. I've been extraordinarily busy at work, so I have not had a lot of time to post and read here.

Having been at this drug addiction thing for the better part of three decades now, I can tell you this for certain: There is no easy solution to the problem. Suboxone is not a magic pill that makes addiction go away, and unless you truly WANT to be clean live a sober lifestyle, you will probably not do so well on suboxone.

If you truly "felt_better_on_oyxs" then my honest opinion is your dose of suboxone is either inadequate OR you may not have been completely ready to put down the drugs. Romanticizing your drug use -even in your screen name- is a behavior that typically precedes or accompanies relapse and/or active drug use. Working yourself up into anger about being on suboxone, or about the fact that it's an opiate is also probably not very healthy.

Look, we're addicts, right? We help each other by being honest with each other. Sometimes those truths are hard to hear. And we may look away, or avoid, or deny them.....but the fact is, as addicts we have only a few choices:

    Active Addiction
    Meetings, Meetings and More Meetings (or therapy)
    Maintenance (methadone/suboxone)


Typically, the maintenance is combined with therapy.....or you can go to meetings, meetings and more meetings.....

That's it. So, we have to make our choice. Hopefully, we all choose wisely. But those are the choices.

feltbetteronoxys - suboxone is a good tool, if used correctly, in conjunction with a cohesive recovery plan that includes therapy and/or meetings, you can beat this addiction for one day. I've been doing it for almost two years now, and -no offense here- I was shooting heroin long before you were born. My only point in saying that is to illustrate the idea that ANYONE, no matter how bad they get, CAN pull it together and get healthy again if they truly apply themselves.

Hope you are reading this and I hope you're doing ok.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:27 pm 
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I didn't disappear, just working a lot of hours and havn't been having the energy to go on the computer once i get out. I'm not going to lie, especially lately, I've been wanting to relapse, but havn't just because I don't want to get sick for two days just to get high for one. Granted, I still smoke marijuana every day, that won't ever stop. As far as wanting to get help, I didn't really want to get clean, hell I still don't feel any sense of pride or anything for quitting. I quit because I didn't have the money for the addiction, and it started to affect my personal life. I guess you could say that I wanted to quit, but had I had the funds I'd be nodding my ass off right now. And I feel it's really sad that as 'addicts' all we have is maintenence (aka using til the day we die, which is all it is, no matter how you romanticize it), therepy (i've been suicidal for years, my hopes on therepy doing anything useful is slim to none at this point), and addiction (which is the same as maintenence, just not socially acceptable). Technically I'm in therepy right now, but I havn't called my therepist back in over a month and although I have to just to get my fix (subs, yes its a fix), I really don't want to. I don't know the point of this post, I guess its to reinforce how useless I feel maintenence treatments are, and how unhappy with my life I am even though Ive been clean for 90 days, Id rather been using for 90 days. At this rate, I really dont think anything will ever make me happy or ever cure me, especially any 12 step group or therepy.

ps. i know theres a plethora of spelling errors, i'm too lazy to change them, its readable, that counts enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:44 pm 
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feltbetteronoxy,

So, I've read your post about 5 times trying to find something that I can help you with. I've been pondering for several minutes on what I can do to help ease your pain. I'm a man, I'm a problem solver, I'm a fixer and I want to be able to help people who have had to go through what I went through, addiciton and recovery mostly. I'm racking my brain as I type and the only thing I can really identify from your post is some obvious anger...does your anger surface regularly?

Mine did for a long time...I was just not a happy person and that, in and of itself, would piss me off and make me even more angry. I became aware of the fact that I tend to obsess/concentrate on what's wrong in my life or what I don't have that I want. For me the obsession is the root of my problems...and it's a bitch trying to keep it under wraps, but once I started to make conscious efforts to limit my obsession AND stop focusing on the shit I want but don't have I have lightened up considerably.

I don't know if you can identify with any of this, I just had to take a stab at it though, especially after noticing how that post is just dripping with anger, it made me feel pretty sad for you. I truly hope you can find some kind of peace.

Oh yeah, when I started focusing on the things I have it was like some flood gates opening. I have a great wife, great daughter, good family, good job(even though I hate it :D ), physical health is good, mental health as always is questionable :wink: , have a roof over my head, food on the table every day, etc, etc, etc. Sometimes I wonder what someone in a third world would say if they could read some of our complaints about our lives...I know they'd laugh their ass off at me and tell me to shut the hell up.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:47 pm 
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I'm sorry you're so unhappy. And if you consider being on sub getting a "fix" as well as feel that being on maintenance as "using", please make it clear that it applies only to you. In other words, that it's your opinion and not fact. You're inviting debate and that's against the forum rules. By the way, being on sub or meth maintenance is FAR, FAR from "socially acceptable".

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:48 pm 
Most definitely congragulations on 90 days!!!! Thats awesome!!!! As for a cure, well unfortunately their isnt one. To be completely honest, i think you gave us the answer to why it isnt working. Your not ready. Theirs definitely not any treatment thats just gonna give us 100% euphoria 24/7 and feel great everyday. Recovery is not easy no matter how you go about it. Thats why you must be ready and willing to do absolutely whatever it takes to achieve the goal so many would kill for, Sobriety. I wish i had more advice but i really dont other than, you really have to work at this and really truly want this for it too work. And it really can work but you have to want it!! I hate that your not at that point yet. I really do. I wish you nothing but the best!! Goodluck!! ~PEACE~


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:02 am 
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Well, clearly, you don't want to be clean. I mean, you said it yourself, that you'd be nodding if you could afford it. I'm sorry you feel that way, because I can tell you from experience that it's no way to live for the long term.

But...Sometimes it's just not the right time for someone to get clean. I hope you can change your thinking. I can only speak for myself, but suboxone is no "fix" for me, nor do I think it's a "fix" for most people who are on it. If you're thinking that way, it's probably because you are still (at least mentally) actively using.

I'm sorry you're in so much pain. All I can say is I hope you can get better.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:46 pm 
Yeah suboxone is most definitely not a fix in anyway. My opinion is that if suboxone gets you high and you nod from it your habit isnt appropriate for suboxone treatment.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:18 am 
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Ah, I know I mentioned antidepressant meds before, but then i read another post by you where you mention being suicidal. I've suffered from depression almost my entire life and struggled so much with just wanting to die...and wellbutrin has really helped me with that. Also, after a life of almost unremitting sever depression (I'm in my late forties) a few years ago I got a lot better. One thing is true of me too, about obsessing on what's bad in my life...that's a hard one and i would always do it. honestly, Wellbutrin seems to help reduce negative obsession, at least for me. Also, realizing and appreciating the ways in which i AM lucky helps some. But i just wanted to say that i really sympathize with you saying you feel suicidal and i want to let you know that there really IS hope. I was suicidal and depressed for so much of my life i didn't really believe there could be anything else...and people who seemed happy and content seemed insane to me....but something HAS changed for me and one of the things that has changed is that i now know that wishing i was dead all the time is not "normal." I really feel for you and hope you find relief. I am pretty sure that I was prone to become a drug abuser/addict because of my severe depression. I don't mean to deny my responsibility or the choices I've made, but i am pretty sure it is a contributing factor, as i think it is for many of us. If you suffer from severe chronic depression it's no wonder getting off oxy doesnt' make you feel great. It's hard to get off drugs anyway and depression is a common symptom of PAWS isn't it? Now...as far as suboxone treatment goes, maybe it ISN"t working out for you, I don't know, seems to me that is something for you to discuss with your doctor. But I think it is too bad you seem to feel so bad about it as a treatment option. personally i think we need to do whatever works best to help us be functional and healthy and it's just that active (and illegal) addiction isn't the way to a healthy functional life...it can seem like it's working great for a while but...i think it pretty much always has a high cost eventually...and it IS a condition that tends to get progressively worse. But what i am trying to stress here is that in your case, underlying depression may be a serious issue and i hope you will consider medication....once when i was suicidal a friend of mine said 'well, try the pills [he meant antidepressants such as prozac or wellbutrin] before you kill yourself!" i had to admit that only made sense. I have to say again, there's no magic pill out there but with luck, many people get great relief from depression with the right antidepressant. I just know that I do hear what you are saying about just being so miserable and you would rather be numb...but that is no way to live and you shouldn't have to suffer so badly...I hope you will talk to you doctor or therapist or counselor, whatever you have, about your sever depression and the fact that it seems like it is not jsut a side effect of your addiction issues...in fact maybe it's teh reverse, that you turned to opiates trying to find relief from your severe depression. Feeling suicidal all the time is just so painful, i know. the only other think i can say to you about what has helped me is...trying to maintain my perspective--that is knowing that my emotions can and do change..and also, diet and exercise have been very very important to me in managing my mental health. Getting sunshine can help too. I know this might sound silly to you, but sometimes really simple things can help. sometimes just feeling the sun on my skin and letting go of all my worries just for the mo times anxiety and depression are inter-related, in my case at least, it seems like anxiety makes my depression worse. I have also found that learning to live more in the moment is helpful for my mental state...living in the moment instead of obsessing about the past or worrying about the future, just accepting where I am and trying to do the best i can with what i have...that's all anyone can do anyway, right? Anyway, I really hope you find your way to a happier state. I think everyone here is just trying to let you know that it is possible. I hope that this makes some sense to you anyway. I'm just so sorry to hear you talking about how miserable you feel that you're suicidal and all. I really hloep you feel better soon, if you aren't already....I just hope at least you have, you know, a GOOD day soon. And it's IS true that recovering from addiction takes time and patience, I think that is true for everyone and that is why we turn to support groups for help with that..people a bit farther along in their recovery can relate to and give hope to people who are still really struggling.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:54 am 
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Time and patient are the most important things for any kind of psych healing, It bothers me so that so many beat themselves up with unhappiness and anger during this time of healing... We really are very fortunate for so many things, I'm not happy all the time but I try like hell... I never use the word HOPE anymore, I let our political " leader " use it and abuse it, Sorry........ Mike


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 Post subject: starting to bother me
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:55 am 
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Posts like this are starting to pop up everywhere, and it bothers me that people, dismiss peoples concerns and bad experiences with sub. This "evidence" that everyone speaks of is all subjective and everyone has different experiences. FOR SOME PEOPLE DETOXING FROM SUB IS HARDER THAT THEIR DOC! And what is it anyones right to tell them any different? Are you them? NO. That is their evidence, and if people share the same opinion over and over then how could one say it isnt fact based? So dont let anyone say- oh the side effects arent real, or theres no evidence, or that it isnt the suboxoxne, because I and MANY others have shared one problem with sub one way or the other. Do people detox with little or no pain, yes, but that doesnt negate ANYONE elses experience or trouble with sub. It is a real turn off when people tell you something isnt happening when it is. For me certain side effects were directley related to suboxone- one being motivation, another being extreme sweating. Sub is an opiate and a powerful one at that, period.

I too felt better on methadone, and my doc. YES OBVIOUSLY the doc was worse and led to bad things. BUT ON A STRICT CHEMICAL bases- not including the legal, social, and convenience of sub.... JUST on how one feels.. it has been way worse. IN MY experience, not yours, but mine. I dont like the way iy makes me feel, and havent since day 1. But for the original poster....I feel you, and sypathize with your experience because it has been mine and many others also..


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 Post subject: So weird...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Honestly I just don't get why you are having these experiences. After 2 months, I was well on my way to being pretty well adjusted....And I get almost every benefit from Suboxone as I do from other opiates, other than the head and body high. It has never made me sick or anything. Are you sure your taking it right? I believe that is the #1 problem with Suboxone - people not knowing how to take it! The directions are hardly detailed enough. It is so, so important that it is taken correctly otherwise it won't work nearly as well, or at all. For almost the entire first year I wasn't taking it the best I could. As soon as that changed, my recovery became even better....


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:36 am 
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i know this thread was started a month ago but there are some recent replies so im gonig to say my piece. I read this entire thread and my honest opinion is backing up lifesavers last post. pretty much we have to hit rock bottom tin order to be readyw to pick ourselves up. Everyonnes rock bottom is different and some are far worse then others. The poster really sounds like they havent hit their rock bottom. Personally, when i went to get on subs it was the first time in my life that i really wanted to quit and could picture myself not using pain pills for the rest of my life. Every other time i quit my stream of thought was pretty similair to the posters. I thought wow i bet in the near future they will use oxys as anti depressants........lol.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:02 am 
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I just now saw this thread and really hope the original poster is okay. Second, I agree that you have to hit a bottom in order to get well. Suboxone worked for me because I knew it was sub or death and I was grateful to be alive and have something OTHER than oxy. I grew to hate oxy and that hatred is so strong it is still here today more than three years later. The thought of it makes me sick.

I was one of those people with mass depression and anxiety which made oxy favorable. I also had mass disposable income which led to zero restrictions on buying except where to find enough of it to feed my addiction. In my opinion, 40mg of oxy per day is nothing except that you could definitely still have a wicked addiction at that level. However......I think the 4mg twice per day is the problem. I think that is too high. With a 40mg per day addiction I think you would be way better off with 2 mg three times per day until you got used to it. Maybe only 2 mg twice per day. I would get up to a total of about 6-8 mg per day and leave it there. When I got back on sub and was drug free, I know 4mg made me want to throw up. I needed to get to a higher dose for pain reasons and had to go very slowly increasing the dose so I wasn't sick.

I would have to agree that the only reason I was so grateful for sub was because it didn't make me sick and I avoided withdrawal. But if I started it and still felt really sick, I would be totally depressed. I hope you are feeling a little better these days and hope you will return and let us know how you are.

I also agree with those who noted the nalaxone may be making you sick. You do not have to swallow your spit which may help with some of the nausea if that continued. You can also try switching to subutex.

Cherie

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:13 am 
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Just one thing: I think the majority of people do have to hit bottom to have a successful recovery. But I don't think EVERYONE needs to. I did not make the choice to quit using opiates. I won't go into all the details (some of you already know them), but I'll say that I did not choose to go on suboxone. And I hadn't yet I hit bottom. So I didn't really make the choice to get "clean" (hate that word). That's all I wanted to say.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:52 am 
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Suboxone works. I've used it for three years and no relapses to OXY hell. Actually between the
Effexor and Subs I'm happy :D sober married employed and seriously working a 12 step program.
You can continue to blame something or someone else for your continued woes :!: or you can
surrender and start the road to recovery and happiness :wink:


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 Post subject: hey lifeizgut
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:56 am 
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You hit the nail on the head. Took the words out of my head. So many people don't understand how to use Suboxone or in my opinion mix it with other things and possibly ruin the progress that it can make. :o


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:03 am 
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*FeltbetteronOxys* I am so sorry your hurting so bad, Physically and mentally, but honestly if your feeling like this on the suboxone you cannot be on a high enough dose! Your still having strong cravings and your depression is borderline suicidal, that throws up red flags of you being way under your ceiling dose. And right now your hurting to bad for me to debate or argue with you wether being on suboxone is better than being on oxys, to do that to you right now would be cruel, your hurting thats obvious, and you came on this forum for a reason,, and i have to think that reason has to be a kind word and support not arguments and judgements. But something has to be done quickly your really sick and its obvious, your miserable, and feel like you dont know what to do. all im saying is your all ready on the subxone so you really have nothing to lose, just try and raise your dose and im really thinking this is going to help clear your mind up, but when ur on this shit but under the ceing dose wether it be 4mgs or 8mgs it can really make you feel like shit, make you depressed, anxious, you can have bad cravings and overall feel hopeless, so please before you do anything drastic please since your already on it, just see if raising your dosage could help and it really might make you feel ALOT different. Trul wooried about you hun, ive been where you are thats why i know how serious it is and how terrible you fee.

May thoughts are with you, i wish you one good day after another, and a way out of this nightmare, please keep us posted!

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