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 Post subject: responses
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:14 am 
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indigochild - hey, I am not 22. my plan and rationale is "junky-retarded," hm, that sounds quite unproductive and childish. I am not sure what other logical there is to get off drugs besides stop taking them (cold turkey), or slowly stop taking them (taper). I guess I don't follow your logical, and don't really understand that "junky-retarded," comment which was rather offensive than helpful. thanks for the prayer. I didn't really think I was being defensive at all, I was just responding to other people's posts, kind sir. I am not planning on getting off bupe quite yet, obviously after the taper is completed. I just believe that any chemicals in my body makes me non pure and I'd rather be that way thanks.

meltalk - thanks for reading, and responding kind sir! 15-16 hours is not that long but it is a start man! all we have is today.

travispnorton - ah, kind sir. thank you for the response and stimulating thoughts! lets talk more.


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 Post subject: hi
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Hey all,

I was able to go about one day then I ended up back on the roller coaster of dosing .05mg sub in the morning, IV heroin at night. This cycle has continued since my last post. I have been going to meetings and really don't want to use, obviously it is hard for me because I am still shooting. I am committing again tomorrow to get clean (off heroin) while on subs then detox off subs all together. I will keep you updated on everything.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:40 am 
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If you really want to stop this crazy cycle, it's my opinion that you need a MUCH higher dose of suboxone. For one, it needs to be high enough to block your physical cravings and more importantly, it needs to be high enough to block any heroin you might take. You can't cut corners in your road to recovery/remission. You are addicted to opiates and there are no shortcuts.

So if you you really want to make a change in your life and I feel you are a good candidate for suboxone, and you want to do it that way, the best way, I think, is to get on a nice maintenance dose of 8-12 mg (I'm no doctor though), and stabilize on that for awhile - 6-12 months and then do a long, slow taper before stopping. That time on sub will gave you the time you need to learn to live without drugs, and that's not easy to learn to do. You'll also need to change all those bad habits you picked up during active addiction - again, that also takes time. You need that time you'll get while being on suboxone. Don't take that time away from yourself.

I hope you get through this...I know you can. You obviously want to and that determination can take you far....Good luck

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:41 pm 
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You need to start using Suboxone for what it's designed for, not what you're using it for. To me, you're using sub so you can continue using heroin, just limited to once per day. I don't know if your reason is financial, or if you just enjoy using that way. Bottom line: you're addicted to heroin and it doesn't look like you want to stop. I know you SAY you do, but your actions don't confirm that. Frankly, until that changes, I'm not sure sub or anything else is going to help you much.

However, if you want to stop, start using sub as the tool it is, as hatmaker suggested. Induct at a dose that removes all withdrawal and craving and STOP using heroin. Period. Stabilize for a little while and start tapering down, it that's what you really want. I can promise you, you'll never succeed with the fast taper you're talking about given your history. You need to put that foolishness out of your mind.

There's a reason 95% of long-term opioid addicts relapse...it's the hardest thing you'll ever even think about doing. If you're not willing to go to ANY lengths, to suffer some serious discomfort...forget it. No matter what method you use it will not be pain-free. There's no free pass off the opioid expressway. Might be time for a serious gut check...what DO you really want, and what price are willing to pay to achieve it?


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:04 pm 
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Right on, thanks for the responses. It's been over 15 hours- Day 1. I took about 1mg this morning. I feel alright, slight discomfort.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:56 pm 
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1 mg??? You need to up your dose. 1 mg won't do anything and it's defeating the purpose of even taking suboxone, in my opinion. You can still use heroin at that dose (and I know you know that which makes me wonder) and it's not even saturating the receptors. It's damn near not even worth it. What are you exactly trying to accomplish using the suboxone and what's different from using, say vicodin, to taper off the heroin? What you are doing with suboxone is practically no different than using a short acting full opiate agonist to taper off.

I'm just not understanding. It's got to be clear to you that your way is not working.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:55 am 
hatmaker510 wrote:
1 mg??? You need to up your dose. 1 mg won't do anything and it's defeating the purpose of even taking suboxone, in my opinion.


While 1 mg will not fully block full-agonist opiates (though for me, it blocks quite a bit), I feel that this is an unfair statement.

Doses of .5-2 mg/day have been proven effective at treating depression. I posted a link awhile ago about that in the links section. I had an addictionologist who refused to prescribe me more than 2 mg/day. I'm not saying it was right; I needed to be on a full blocking dose for a few months. As most of us know, bupe is prescribed for pain in .2, .4, and .8 formulations. 1 mg definitely does something, and I feel better on it than I did at 8 mgs depression-wise. It definitely does something..though it will not FULLY block opiates.

I don't think OP is trying to get on Sub maintenance..I think he is just trying to taper off heroin. Obviously he is failing but he may have reasons for not wanting to do maintenance because he has gotten off dope before. Maybe he should do maintenance, maybe not..but I don't think "jump right up to 8 mg/day" is NECESSARILY the only option. Besides, 4 mg/day is enough to fully block for most people.

However, this is all a moot point because honestly OP, it doesn't seem like you are really done.


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