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 Post subject: (Emotionless)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Well guys this is directed towards us who are taking SUBOXONE!

The other day while speaking with my psychologist he asked me why am I so emotionless or so level, no ups and downs. I don’t smile I don’t laugh but I don’t frown or cry either while talking about very serious issues in my life. And so I talked with my mom and girlfriend about this as well last night and they also said the same thing! I’m sitting here asking myself was has happen from year 1 of Suboxone too year 4. Is anyone else notice these types of changes in yourself since starting SUBOXONE????????????

Here is an example: The other day my dad and I were having a very serious conversation about something real sad. Whenever my dad tears up in front of me I break down into tears but that doesn’t happen no more no matter how sad or upsetting it is I just don’t show any emotions and I don’t know why.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Other people have claimed that sub make them "numb" or "emotionless", but I would be more inclined to think that such a state is more psychological than anything. Human emotions are oh-so-complicated, as you know, and we, as addicts, messed around with those emotions by numbing them and avoiding them for a really long time. It could be argued that it has more to do with how that particular person handles their own emotions and their unique psyche than anything else. Plus there's always the possibility that other medications could be having an effect. And it seems to me that for something as complex as our emotions and whether they are "normal" or not would have more to do with a very huge set of complex variables than one, pretty reliable and safe medication.

I know for me, I haven't had any such problems and I've been on sub for over two years. Believe me, I have full range in terms of emotions, sometimes I wish I didn't.

That's just my take on the subject.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:39 pm 
Dude i've never had more normal emotions in my life seeing how i started using drugs so young. I was completely numb while using drugs. Ever since starting subs, i have had more emotions than ever. Well, i have completely normal emotions thats for sure. I can cry about sad stuff. I laugh and smile every day all day long. I feel empathy for others. I just feel perfectly normal so its just hard for me to understand how this happens. Im not doubting you in the least, but simply that i dont experience this. I guess my emotions have been completely numb and non-existent from many many other drugs besides opiates for so long that when i started taking only sub, they just all came back full force. My emotions were always covered up by coke, ecstasy and every other drug under the moon. I literally had no conscious while in active addiction. Like a walking psycho. Anyways, i hope you can get this figured out. peace


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:47 pm 
Yea im in my 20th month of taking sub so i would have noticed a numbing of emotions if it was gonna happen to me. Like i said, i definitely dont doubt you cuz others have made the same claims. Do you take other medications? Any antidepressants or mood medicatoins? Those type things can do such things. I took celexa for about 2 or 3 years, cant really remember exactly but i was like a zombie while taking that. Thats only my experience. Celexa actually gave me horrible withdrawal when i abruptly stopped it after taking it for a few years. Omg the worst headaches i've ever had in my life. Felt like my brain was pulsating or swelling in my head. So damn dizzy i could hardly walk right. It was horrible and i will never touch an antidepressant again. Im not depressed but before sub i use to take all kinds of those type meds because doctors thought i was this and i was that. But the reason i was this and i was that is because of the drugs but this was before i told the doctors about the drugs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 pm 
bboy seems like you and me have more in common everyday with suboxone now. I feel the exact same way as you described just numb, and not numb in the good way you feel from opiates but as in I feel like Im never happy and never will be if I stay on this medication. Its hard to complain because it keeps me from using (although I do my share of recovery work to stay sober) but I feel like im just emotionaly stunted and I dont like it at all. I also feel like a useless freakin slug 24/7 too and have to drag myself around just to do everyday normal things. At least with full agonists I felt a motivation and wanted to be outgoing and talk to people etc. but now it just seems like a big chore. Im on a relatively low dose too and have only been on sub since the end of july. I know when I eventualy switch to methadone in the future I will struggle with tiredness and some other side effects but at least I wont be craving as much. Im grateful to suboxone for how it has helped me get clean but as everyday Im on it passes I just kinda feel like this med is not for me anymore. I wish things would get better


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:09 pm 
Oh and one more thing that is worth noting for me is that I experience constant nausea, I never felt like this from full agonists except for early on in my addiction when I wasnt tolerant but it went away very soon after I started using and never returned, i just feel absolutely gross like the nausea you feel when you havent eaten for awhile so Im constantly taking pepto and drinking milk and it helps for a little bit but then it comes back again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:30 pm 
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I find this pretty interesting. I just have not seen (read or heard) many comments about feeling "flat" or emotionless while on Suboxone. The interesting thing is, that this is exactly what I have heard about methadone. Now, I can't compare the two since I've never been on methadone for more than a day at a time (during my using days I occasionally would "obtain" a couple of methadone tabs but never was on them for any length of time). Anyhow, when I hear people complain about or criticize methadone, I often hear them make these claims. They say that many patients on methadone are "flat" or zombi-like or emotionless. Is it true? Hell, I don't know. That's just what they claim. I just have not heard the same comments about Suboxone.

Speaking personally, I do not at all feel emotionless. In my case, I have all sorts of people tell me that I seem happier now than I used to be. I certainly feel happier. Thing is, I don't attribute that directly to Suboxone either. I don't think that the Sub is making me happier - as in how an antidepressant might or how getting high might. I think that I feel happier because of the many things that have gotten better in my life - due in part to being on Suboxone or more likely due to not being actively addicted to opiates anymore. Perhaps it's a combination of all of the above? Who knows? I just am pretty sure that I'm a happier person now. I enjoy life more. And friends and family seem to notice it.

That's my take on it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:46 pm 
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How's it going. I have actually received all of my emotions back when I got off drugs (methadone ppils crystal ect.) I have always had a sober looking face weather im happy or sad so im always asked what's wrong or why are you mad. Annoying. I've been on sub for basicly two years now. My opinion is its not the Suboxone and if that's all that you take than I guess there is a tenny tiny possibility your dose is to high. But that's my long answer to a yes or no question. Good luck


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:52 pm 
I know for me, i felt full of life while taking methadone. I've never taken it through a clinic but i have taken it for months at a time and became completely stable on it. I know it was mostly due to the euphoria that it gives you but it was much more of a happier feeling compared to sub. I also personally do understand now what yall mean about not having feelings. I have emotions etc. etc. but i can honestly say im not really ever normally happy. I only feel a happiness when the med seems to give me the proper relief. Yes their are days when i dont feel the relief i used to feel but i've also been taking this med for 20 months. I am definitely understanding what your meaning more now that suboxowned said what he said about not feeling happy. Thats how i feel. I just kinda ignore it because the positive results are outweighing the negative. Im not sure i would call it emotionless though. Its just that i have taken the med for so long, which is an opiate regardless of it being partial or not, and im kinda getting to where im only happy if i get that relief i once got in the beginning. I know people dont wanna call it this and their will be many that disagree but, i used to get a little euphoria from sub for a little while in the beginning months. You dont have to agree with what i just said but please dont bash me for saying that. Its only MY experience. I do have motivation though. I dont really feel like im lacking much. Im not turning anti sub either. I agree sub has 100% been a lifeline for me. It just seems as if it doesnt work like it once did. I go through these stages though where i just dont feel like the med works properly. It usually passes. Quite strange actually. I never went through these stages with full opiates and i've taken them for long periods of time an been completely stable on them just as i am with sub. Its like my mind is just neutral. As i said, for some reason this is just a stage that i go through that eventually passes. So, i will just put up with going through these little stages because recovery is much more important than anything else. Methadone definitely never did this to me. Matter fact, thats a perfect example of what im talking about. I have been just as stable on methadone as i am sub but this never happend with methadone. The only problem i ever had with methadone was when i didnt have any. The withdrawals were not fun. I loved the stableness i felt with methadone. It was 110% craving free, full of energy and happy all the time. Their really was never a downside other than running out and going through the withdrawal. That only happen cuz i wasnt taking it through a clinic like i should have. I would choose to go on methadone before i ever went back to active addiction.

SuboxoWNED:

I never had tiredness with methadone. I mean, drowsiness when you lay down or something but it was pretty much if you wanted to be doing something you had all the energy in the world to do it and if you wanted to lay down and go to sleep, you could lay down an be asleep within 5 minutes after laying down. If you wanted to just lay their an watch tv you could. It doesnt make you so tired that you cant stay awake. Its just an opiate feeling. Anyways, i've rambled my ass off here. I apologize. peace


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:10 pm 
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I remember making you upset one day bashing methadone. Im new on here kinda and I should have never did that. I remember all the pills and methaadone I was on for 2 yrs and to me all of those and sub doesn't work the same every day. I put that on its just the way im feeling that day or maybe the food I've ate ect.. It sounds like your not going to be happy till your on done and maybe it can work without having to slowly take more and more to stay happy. Im just thrilled I was able to sneek away from that gorrila of a narcotic with the help of Suboxone. I know I would have never been able to kick done without help of sub. I was able to quit sub and never miss a day of work and that gives me comfort to know im safe if our country gets bombed or a mega earthquake hits us all ect. .. good luck to you man and don't forget how lucky we all are to live in the u.s and not a third world country or sumthing bad like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Lifesaver, you said it was like a stage or phase that you go through sometimes, right? Well, if it were the suboxone doing it to you - and you take it regularly - wouldn't the effect be consistent rather than on and off? If it were a negative effect of the medication, it wouldn't be hit or miss...it would be there all the time. At least that's what makes sense to me.

I still think there are so very many variables in how we have emotions, including hormones, neurotransmitters, our psychology or psychological make-up, how we learned as children to handle emotions, normal, every day ups and downs...etc etc etc - there are just too many variables to mention. I think boiling it down to saying that it's the suboxone alone that's responsible is rather - simplistic, for lack of a better word. I just believe it's WAY more complex than that.

And please know that I mean no disrespect to anyone.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:24 pm 
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:?: hey hatmaker do you look like that cute little fairy pic you have by your name. I had to ask I just like that little picture I guess. Sorry to get off subject there! :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:48 pm 
I think whats happening to lifesaver and me concerning having the "off" days might have alot to do with how inefficient route of administration and absorbtion of suboxone can be. There are to many variables in getting good absorbtion to be able to get the same exact amount of medication into your system each time. Im pretty sure thats whats going on with me at least. I start to get RLS and cold and clammy and insomnia if I dont get good absorbtion and it happens pretty often. For people on high doses this doesnt affect them but for me being able to only afford being on such a low dose of 4mgs the long half life does not keep me well for 24 hours. I feel shitty well before 24 hrs is up and I am anticipating my next dose its realy annoying because it makes me feel like Im exhibiting junkie behavior but its not my fault and I realy cant do anything about it. If suboxone was like most medication and could just be swallowed and get 70-90% bioavailability I think it would cause a lot less problems for me and other people having issues


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:07 am 
Wade:

Sorry but, what are you talking about? lol. Are you saying that i got upset about you bashing methadone? If so, im pretty sure i didnt bash you for saying something about methadone or if i did i would have to blame my CRS(Cant Remember Shit) cuz i flat out dont have a clue what your talking about. Are you saying IM not gonna be happy until im taking methadone or someone else? I prefer not to switch to methadone as that was my DOC. I wouldnt wanna switch to methadone unless i had no more options. None of this is meant with disrespect. More less just confused wether your statements are to me or not.

Hat:

At times, the stages do in fact contribute to the absorption imo. Even being on 10mg's, if you get full absorption 80% of the time your body adjust to that full absorption pretty much all the time. Well, the time comes when my mouth waters up more than usual for a few days or all kinds of things that could take place but end up getting less absorption for however many days, you go through a stage where your not getting your full dose and feel shitty. I wish i knew more about which chemicals bupe works on in the brain and also how it does so because i could explain myself much more effectively. Just say for example it works off dopamine, which i actually think thats correct. Over time which the 20months for example that i've been taking it, that chemical may not produce the exact same affect as it should because its being controlled by the medication. If the med works properly, then yea you get the desired effects from that chemical. When it doesnt, that chemical may not be as effective. Im not a doctor nor any kind of professional so take my example for what its worth. I just made an example the best i could so its quite possible that its wrong or doesnt even make one bit of sense lol.

SuboxoWNED:

Your correct in with your thoughts. Even at 10mg's or even the 16mg's i was taking, if you get full absorption for as i said above 80% of the time, your mind and body becomes adjusted to getting that full dose. Well, when that day comes that you F it up an dont get proper absorption you feel like shit because your body is used to a full dose. Its just like taking 100mg's of methadone. If you take 100mg's every day for however long then all the sudden your only able to take 85mg's, your gonna feel the affect even at such a high dose. So, concluding that i do believe that if their was a proper way to take this med that gave a person a full dose every single time, guaranteed full dose than i think none of these "stages" would ever occur. Like yesterday i had one of those days but luckily this morning i got pretty good absorption and feel much more relief than i did yesterday. Anyways, its early and i've already rambled forever here. peace


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:41 am 
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Hatmaker - I agree with you that the complexity of emotions makes it very difficult to comment accurately or determine the culprit of this.

Everyone is different and everyone reacts differently to medications to some extent. Who would I be to judge anyone else's experience?

My own experience is that I still have full range of emotions. I do think I am more easily excited about things on sub, however, I also think I have some level of control and once I have awareness I can also control it better. I have been on sub over 3 years so remembering "before" and then trying to remember "before oxy too"....well that's not so easy. I was in my 20's and so many things are changing in your 20's. You are still transitioning from immature childlike emotions to adult emotions. You are going from a reactive state (most people it seems) to a more stable state as you become wiser about the world. So how does one know if it is the suboxone versus something else exactly? My husband seems to have few emotions because he was raised in a family where there was no point in having emotions. He doesn't drink, smoke, or take any drugs.

BBoy - the question to me is whether or not there are emotions you think you should have and aren't having. Another question is whether or not removal of suboxone would make this better, or would it just be worse in a different way and some other drug or therapy might be a better solution. Like Hatmaker said, emotions are so complex, you really wouldn't want to jump to conclusions on anything because you could easily mistake the cause and thus the solution as well.

Even with the minimal therapy I have had (once per month or so most of the time), I know my emotions have changed a lot. I used to feel quite guilty if my mom was upset about anything and feel very anxious and feel a need to fix it. If she cried, I would get teary. Over time, I have separated considerably from her emotions and these days, her emotions are hers and mine are mine and I don't get me mixed up in hers. That isn't such a bad thing. It isn't like my therapist and I have ever specifically discussed this. It is just something that has changed over time. I am not emotionless. I just have my own emotions.

Suboxone has given me the safety I needed to grow and to learn and experience life sober. I think it has been excellent for me. I HAVE become way less reactive to the world around me and I think that is because I am WAY wiser than I was before. That is a good thing. Before I changed drugs or blamed the suboxone, I would probably see a therapist and discuss the issues first. That way no mistakes are made in the process.

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Cherie

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:30 pm 
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suboxOWNED- wanted to chime in on the nausea thing. I have felt nauseas, just like you described with the feeling of not haven eaten anything. I have gotten this pretty often since I have been on subs and usually if I make sure and eat I feel fine but sometimes, especially early morning or late night I feel so nauseas I really think I'm going to throw up!! It has led to many a pregnancy scare with my husband and I!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:34 pm 
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suboxOWNED- wanted to chime in on the nausea thing. I have felt nauseas, just like you described with the feeling of not haven eaten anything. I have gotten this pretty often since I have been on subs and usually if I make sure and eat I feel fine but sometimes, especially early morning or late night I feel so nauseas I really think I'm going to throw up!! It has led to many a pregnancy scare with my husband and I!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:39 pm 
Yeah I hear ya, I do the same and try to eat beforehand and about an hour after I take my subs to combat the nausea but it never realy stops it from happening completely. Its realy weird to me that regular opiates didnt give me this nausea ever except in the very beginning before i was addicted and suboxone does. Oh well its not a huge deal but it is bothersome.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Wow so many posts, I’ll take some time to read them all than start replying to all your guys questions, points and views.

One thing ill state is I have never had depressions issues my whole life knock on wood! Let alone emotions whether it be too much or too little.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:37 pm 
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I, too, feel somewhat flat and emotionless - not totally but more than if I were not medicated. In my case I think it's the combination of being an an antidepressant & Suboxone, with the AD probably being the worst culprit. I accept that I NEED to be on these meds right now, so I have to accept it. There have been times when it's been really bad, like when I was on an AD and didn't even cry at my father's funeral. But now I think I have adjusted somewhat and I do laugh and cry at times, just not as much as I would consider "normal".


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