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 Post subject: Either way you lose.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:17 am 
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I guess I'll start out with a little bit of background on me, so you can understand where I'm coming from. I have dealt with depression and mental issues pretty much all my life. At age 14 I went to a doctor got prescribed something for anxiety and depression, but only took it for a month because my step dad didn't want to deal with taking me to the doctors and having me on medication. So I did what I guess everyone who felt that way and didn't feel like they had any options, and started self medicating. It was beer every weekend, then added in smoke weed. I stuck with weed in combination with what ever I was using. I got tired of drink so much beer, that it was easier to get a bottle of hard liquor. Now I'm 17 I smoke weed every day and drink as often as I could get away with it. It was too much trouble to hide being drunk, so I started taking muscle relaxers "Soma" and still smoking weed. I did that till about the age of 19, when I tried to get cleaned up, I was still smoking weed but far less and not doing anything else. That lasted about 9 months, then I started taking pain killers percocets and such, I was like wow I pop a couple these, no more depression or metal issues, and no one could tell I was on anything. The only problem pain killers were expensive and hard to find all the time. So at about 22 I went to a doctor, told him how I felt he put my on some zoloft and xanax, then Effexor and more xanax, then he decided my mental issues were out of his knowledge, and I started going to specialists, they had me try every drug in their book, but none worked, so I'm still smoking weed and taking pain killers when I can get them, I would get clean if they tried a new drug, I would give it a real try and when they didn't work I would go back to the pain killers. This point percocet was a waste of time I was sniffing Oxycontin and morphine pills, it was nothing for me to sniff 240mg of Oxycontin a day. I was 25 staying up getting high for days, then took some methadone someone gave me took my 8mgs of xanax and smoked some weed, and felt like I would take little nap. Long story short I over dosed, I drowned from my spit or whatever stopped breathing and my heart pretty much stopped, they were about 90% shore I was dead or would brain dead if I woke up, they worked on me for about 5 hours, and I just woke up, no brain damage, pretty lucky as hell. After that I started Soboxone, I'm 27 now I've been on it for 2 years, at 32mgs a day, it in combination of my other meds (xanax, Effexor, buspar and vistral) keep me not using, but still feeling not so great about life, and I'm scared to death if I ever have to drop Suboxone because I know I'll go right for the pain killers because they work, they make me feel life is worth living, nothing else gives me that feeling. So now I'm street drug clean, but because the meds I gained like 40 pounds over the years, and that makes me just as depressed as if I wasn't on meds. So where do I go in life I've done every diet, and work out plenty, and my doctor just says it's no a big issue and it's a result of all the different medications. What type of option does that leave me? some what mental stable but unhappy with life, or go back to pain killers and end up either dead or locked in jail. I just don't see any clear options for me having a future. It's a pointless riddle in which either way I lose. Anyone care to add their 2 cents go for it, no one can give me any help worth taking so far, so may be I'll have better luck with a bigger crowd. Let me know what you think.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:58 am 
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I'm so glad you've decided to share your story with us and I hope you'll continue to keep posting in the future. I really feel like I know exactly where you're coming from and while reading through your story I really could empathize with what you've gone through. I've always been painfully shy and introverted even to the point it's undoubtedly changed my quality of life. The worst has always been large social situations it really is as though no matter how many things I've tried I always feel as if everyone around me is constantly judging me. It takes me a very, very long time to feel even remotely comfortable with new people and alot of times I get anxious even talking to people I've known my whole life. I believe the depression has many times been a result how the anxiety has impaired my ability to try new things, try new things, live the life I wanted to live. I too tried all the big name SSRIs and all of them made things so much worse in the first month or so after starting them that I couldn't manage to hang in there until they actually started working. Benzos(xanax, valium, etc) are simply not an option for me because of the risk of addiction given my long history of opiate abuse. Dr. Junig I think makes a very strong argument against using benzos chronically (long-term) because they ultimately lose their effectiveness and the only way to maintain any benefit from them is continue to up dosages which ALWAYS ends badly as the same thing is true with opiates and I've found that out too many times how that turns out for one lifetime :( From the way it sounds most doctors would make the same argument against using Xanax or other benzos long-term for this very reason.

This may sound ridiculous to others but I had somewhat of a revelation one day after avoiding another social function due to my irrational fears. I think I just realized that this is how I am, I came to accept things more as they are. That may sound pessimistic but it was actually kind of comforting at the time. I've also discovered some other things that have helped a little, they haven't changed my life yet but they've made things a bit more manageable. One of the main ones was to stop smoking pot, even though in the short term I thought it made me more relaxed I started to see how much it increased my blood pressure and ultimately raised my anxiety levels. I've literally cut caffiene out of my diet as well, again I wasn't really happy to do it at first but after quitting I have seen some benefits. I've started jogging regularly at least 5x a week and again have noticed not huge but a noticeable difference. I've quit smoking again (hopefully I'll stay stopped this time) my doctor after having tried the other ways of quitting thought we might give Zyban a try. We started at a low dose though because of how it can cause some anxiety when starting. We then increased the dosage very slowly and I did have some rough days the first week or so it did help me quit smoking. After a little over a month taking it I actually did seem to feel less anxious and while I'm not sure if it's just the fact that I'm no longer smoking or the increased amount of exercise or even the Zyban itself. It does sound like it's unlikely that it was the Zyban(bupropion) but I've read a handful of others have some success with it for anxiety. Whatever it is I do feel like I'm doing better and getting my opiate abuse under control when I started Suboxone really stabilized my life in general and therefore undoubtedly helped with my anxiety levels somewhat indirectly. Forcing myself to be around people and friends somedays does make me feel somewhat better and if I didn't do so I'd undoubtedly be living like a hermit.

I hope you find something that works or that perhaps I may have made some suggestions that may help you. Just know you're not alone and while it did take ALOT of work on my part things have gotten somewhat better. Hang in there, one last thing that helps my thought process is constantly telling myself things probably aren't going to be as bad as I think they will.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Hey buddy ! Boy can I sypothize with you big time. When I was 18 I had a dr. put me on zoloft for my deppression. At the time I thought what deppression and I refused to take them. I went on self medicating until I was 33. Everytime I would decide to stop and treat my deppression all anyone would ever put me on was zoloft. I can't get away from it. Man I hate that stuff. Anyway I smoked weed and did the pain pills. I know exactly what your talking about the way it makes you feel. Your not sad and hopeless anymore. That's what I miss. Whoa there getting off track. I too have also gained like 40 lbs. since I started suboxone in Dec. I'm sorry to say that I don't have any advice to give as I feel pretty much the same way you are, but I just wanted you to know that you're not alone not by a long shot. Hang in there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:20 pm 
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I was fat my entire life.I had a shitty life growing up and food was always my best friend.I started therapy at ten years old, and began drinking and using weed at 12 years old. Nobody really cared much about what I did, and I would do the most insane things to get attention from my mother, but it never seemed to work.By 1, I was using heavier drugs and was getting heavier every year.By the age of 21, I had a baby and weighed about 400 pounds.I developed a cocaine problem at 24 and almost lost my mind and my will to live.Nearing 30 yrs old, I weighed 457 pounds and decided to change my life by having weight loss surgery.I lost about 250 pounds, looked amazing and thought everything would be wonderful and life would get better, but I was wrong.
I hooked up with an old friend and started to smoke crack, and that is when I feel I lost a piece of my soul.I hated it but I loved being numb, and it was allot easier to be in a haze of drugs than learn to live with everyday life.One nite, I cried out literally for someone or something to rescue me from the hell I created, and a warm feeling rushed over me and I suddenly felt a peace as if my plea was heard.
I started getting clean and was dating someone who impacted my life in a beautiful way.He taught me about loving myself again and gave me back that piece of my soul that was gone.Tomorrow will be our one year wedding anniversary, and because of his love and influence I learned to love myself unlike I ever did before. We have been together for six years and NEVER had one argument. Some think that is weird but we don't have anything to argue about, it is something so unique and profound and it saved my life. Even when I had my knee injury and got messed up with the pain pills, we talked it out and I got help because I never liked being in that frame of mind, and he trusted me to make the right decision and has learned how addiction is something you don't choose but recovery is.

I tell you this because everyone has a choice in life.I get that you gained weight from your meds, I did too.I have put on sixty pounds of the weight I lost because of meds and I don't like it, but it is not the end of the world.There is much more in life to be happy about, I am clean from illicit drugs, I am healthy and I am alive. There will come a day when someone or something will cross your path and offer you a choice to stay where you are or to explore a new possibility- it is up to you what you choose.Had I kept using crack and blew off that guy, I would surely have been dead- but I chose life.
I still complain, I still have issues and don't like allot of people but inside my four walls I have a wonderful life because I chose to leave everything else outside of my home.There will always be bullshit to contend with, but it is how you chose to handle it that matters. Search your soul and find something that inspires you to be who you want to be.I guarantee you will be allot happier!

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"It is never too late to be what you might have been!" - George Eliot


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:29 pm 
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I just don't see any clear options for me having a future. It's a pointless riddle in which either way I lose. Anyone care to add their 2 cents go for it, no one can give me any help worth taking so far, so may be I'll have better luck with a bigger crowd. Let me know what you think.


I do know one thing for certain, and that is if you give up, you will never get better.

I was going to write you this big long response listing all my credits for mental illnesses suffered, shitty situations lived through, drugs I've abused, etc. But that's really not the point. Obviously if I'm hanging around on the Suboxone Forum, I've got issues. I totally feel where you are coming from right now, because similar words have come from my mouth on many occasions. So I will tell you this:

There is no point to life. The meaning is what you give it, and you can't find that answer outside of yourself. You have to find the thing that gives your life meaning, and then do it. Otherwise you could just stay in a state of self-pity forever, because yes, you have had some tough circumstances to overcome.

Keep trying. It took me years to find the right combination of medications, and then my body changed and I had to start over. Find a good therapist, and go to therapy. You might have to try a few people or different styles to find what works for you. Some people like CBT or DBT, others (like me) hate it. Family Systems Therapy really helped me.

Go to meetings. Find other recovering people. You need friends and support. To figure out what will give you fulfillment in life, you have to try a lot of things. Doing something that helps other people who are worse off than myself ALWAYS helps me. Maybe it's not the most joy-inducing activity, but it always gives me perspective, which is usually what I really need.

Nothing is going to make you feel as carefree, as euphoric, as numb, as opiates did. That is not reality, that is being high. But there are deeper experiences in life that are ultimately far more rewarding than drugs can ever be. You have to do the work though. Medications can only take you so far. Healing you mind and your heart are up to you after that. There's no guarantee that you'll ever be totally free from depression, but that doesn't mean you can't work toward learning how to manage it. And then you enjoy life between the hard times, just like everyone else does.

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You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Last edited by Diary of a Quitter on Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:50 am 
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I firmly believe that people on Suboxone are as 'clean' as anyone going to meetings and not using-- I see as much personality growth and good things with Suboxone-- if not more.

That said, you are likely still in 'addict' mode. I am huge on dosing ONCE per day with Suboxone; we know that for almost everyone, 4 mg is equivalent in opiate potency to 8, 12, 16, 24, or 32 (!) mg. The company that makes Suboxone has been sending notices out every month for over a year now, telling docs to limit doses to a MAX of 16 mg-- the course teaches docs to give 8-16 mg, in ONE dose-- your doc is giving in to you, and giving way too much Suboxone. I would guess you take it multiple times per day; you are in that case just a slave to a different drug. It won't kill you as quick as the others, but it will keep you as miserable!

There is a way to feeling better-- you need to stop being an addict. Suboxone at 8 mg is a HUGE dose of buprenorphine; the drug is very potent at 10 micrograms, and one tab has 8000 micrograms! you are taking that 4 times per day?! Simply crazy. Buprenorphine becomes an antagonist at high doses; you might even be taking so much that it is blocking itself and working less well! But the main thing is to dose ONCE, always at the START of the day, NEVER when you imagine that you 'need' it-- always automatically, like a vitamin. If you do that, you will, after a month, start to forget to even take it; you will start to lose the 'inward focus' that comes with addiction and start to live in the world outside of your head--- where the fun is.

I can only imagine how you are using the xanax, another very addictive medication; I will prescribe it but only if a person can take it at most every OTHER day. IF you take it every day, you become tolerant, and then if you miss a dose you have anxiety-- not REAL anxiety, but 'xanax withdrawal anxiety'.

As for the weight, most people need to work at staying thin-- they work at it every single day, by walking or by doing something more strenuous. They also watch their diets. It does NOT come naturally in today's world-- with all that Suboxone, and the xanax, it is hard to picture you out there jogging, or swimming. But the defeated tone has to go, and you need to feel like you have a say in your life-- not that you are a victim of meds. Incidentally, given your history, you simply need to be on Suboxone-- that is a given, or you will likely die. So don't torture yourself with any decision. Just take it correctly-- either by educating your doc (tell him/her to do some reading of the protocol!) or by finding someone else. It can be dosed one pill every other day, to be frank-- everything keeping you from dropping the dose is in your head. It is hard to overcome, but just use determination and distraction, and read here and my blog- it will explain the reasons in detail.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:10 pm 
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I know the replys were for dottapro, but I feel the need to say somethings. I don't want anyone to misunderstand where I'm coming from. I have been fat my entire life. Being big is nothing new to me. I have a man who doesn't mind at all. But it is an issue and I'm trying to relate to people on here, because even posting on here makes me uncomfortable and self concience. I love the new chance at life this medicine has given me. I don't spend everyday craving opiates just once in awhile. I'm trying to get treatment for deppression, but I'm finding that's as hard as getting on suboxone. That took almost a year to get into a dr. I had an appoinment last month.. Don't have another one till next month. Maybe it's the addict in me knowing people make pills everyday that are going to make me feel better (just legel to me ones this time), but should it be this hard to get help for my deppression? I have been trying to tackle one problem at a time since I've been clean. I've started with the big ones and am working my way down the list. I feel like if I can get it under control then I can move on to things like my weight and the condition of my house (lol). This site means so much to me. It's the only support I get outside of my own house. I have put in for drug counseling a month ago also still haven't heard anything. I know I need to call and be active in my counseling. Everytime I read something on here that speaks to me I have to say something even if sometimes it might not make sense. I'm just trying to feel my way back into life. Thanks for listening.


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