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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:25 am 
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I am new to this site and besides whats here, I have not been able to find very much information on suboxone. Just wondering how long you have been taking suboxone. I am asking this because my doctor tells me that people who stay on it for longer than a short term treatmet plan, should only be on it for 1 year. Just wondering if this is correct, or if people stay on suboxone for more than 1 year. And if so, how long? I have been on it for about 9 months and I just don't feel like I am ready to get off anytime in the near future. Is this normal for him to put a time limit on my treatment, should I look for another doctor? Thanks in advance for any help and advice :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:15 am 
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Hello Let it be,
Welcome to the forum. I think as you find your way around you will find a lot of very useful information! As far as your duration on Suboxone I can only tell you my experience. I was using over 300 mgs. of oxycodone a day when in finally got into treatment back in Feb. 2009! So I have been on 16 mgs. of Suboxone a day for a year now and I don't intend to stop anytime soon... My Dr. has said in the Spring we will look at the "possibility" of starting a taper plan!! He has also said that it will be a group decision ( Me, my Dr. and my therapist)on what to do and when to do it... So I guess the best answer to your question is everyone is different and Unique. We all have to work off our own timetable.. Anyway where ever the road to "clean & Sober living" take you I wish you the best of luck. Stick around the forum and keep posting. You will help others more than you could imagine!!
Take Care!

God Bless
TW


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:49 am 
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There should be no time limit on how long you should be on it, it should be all up to you. My situation is similar ive been on it for about year and i am seeing a councilor. I was injecting about 40 bags of heroin a day and if you dont feel like your ready to get off then dont. You have the choice to stay on it the rest of your life if you want, or as short as you want. I know people that have been on it for way more than one year.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:49 pm 
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I was taking about 280mg per day of oxycontin. I started at 24mg of suboxone and got down to 12mg. I was on it for 2 1/2 years. I went off it and am about to get back on. I found a doctor who generally prescribes for 6 mos. to 1 year but will keep me on it forever if need be. If you aren't ready then tell him. If that doesn't work, shop around for a new doctor. Just my opinion. I know for me that even if something is GOOD for me and I feel forced into it, then it won't work.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:53 am 
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Thanks for sharing!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:35 pm 
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Hello, I also wanted to add my .2 cents.

I have been on suboxone for over 8 months. My first suboxone doctor wanted me to taper off as he does with ALL his patients in 3-6 months. Everyone drops from 2mg he said. LONG story short, we didn't get along and I found another doctor 125 miles each way in a different state that has no problem with long term treatment. We are set on my 12 mg per day maintenance dose and thats that for now. I started on 24mg per day with first doctor and by the time I started with my 2nd and current doctor I was at about 12mg so I stayed there and feel pretty good. I plan to be on suboxone for as long as I need it. As of now, it looks like I will need it for a LONG time. Thats fine by me! If someone is ready to taper off then that is fine as well!!

If your doctor insists that you taper off and does not listen to you and work with you, then I think (non expert opinion) that you should find a different doctor. Even if you just looked into it, just make sure you ask a lot of questions and know before hand what you are getting into. That will produce the best results. A little comparision MY 1st doctor charged $150 for induction (regular 1st visit paperwork and drug test but only 10mins actual time spent with the doctor then sent home with scripts to take sub at home) and then charged $100 for each regular visit which seemed random ( 2, 3, 2.5 weeks and etc....weird stuff like that!). My current doctor charged $250 for first visit and $100 for each regular visit which is every month (actually '28 days'). He is worth the drive about 250 miles or so round trip $500 approx total for meds, dr visit, and travel expenses. The first doctor was under 30 miles away, so more convienent but a WASTE!


Best of luck to everyone, take care

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"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Hello!

I have been on subutex for about 6 weeks, and it is my 2nd time aroud. About 9 months ago I was on it for a whopping 18 days. I intended to use it for short term detox, relapsed about a month later and this time decided I was happy to stay on it long term. I put myself first. I trust myself and I answer to myself. finding a doctor who puts me first as long as it is in line with his medical ethics is critical! I have no need, no desire and no chance of winning a war against my opiate receptors. I am not prepared to devote ALL of my emotional time and energy to staying off of opiates forever. That is OK with me! the sub keeps my receptors at bay, and I am able to live my life without the constant "chatter in my head" about when to go off, how to go off, why I should go off blah blah blah... Trust yourself, nobody knows you better and be an advocate for what you need! good luck!

mw


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:40 am 
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Well said mwflorida.This is neither a race or competition.It is however, life or death serious.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:46 am 
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I have a friend who foolishly, gets suboxone from family member, he is a off and on type person now but, before both myself and him were on H for about 7 yrs, I hit 27 and realized the life/jail and hassle it was brining down on myself and family, was horrible even tho i worked soo i did the methadone program (for the 4th time) and was sick of it, saw a dr for suboxone and have been on it 6 and a 1/2 yrs now and struggling to taper, but as far as 1/2 life goes my friend shot morphine 8 hrs l8r after the small amount of suboxone he took (cuz it didnt give him a "high") and he puked violently for a hr! I told him he was an idiot and if he was gonna do the drugs that he should choose one or the other or wait a day, but I've also heard of ppl taking drugs while on suboxone but they weren't on it as long. That's honestly the only thing I liked about methadone, I could use if I wanted or "needed" to. I don't think I need to explain that to most ppl... Withdrawals suck! But I havnt used in 6 1/2 yrs and its thanks to suboxone


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:01 pm 
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From what I've heard from many professionals, there's nothing wrong with life-long treatment if you think that's the best idea. Though the goal should always be to have recovery internalized enough to live without it, sometimes even when people do get there, it's not worth the risk of taking them off.

It somewhow doesn't seem right saying that I myself want to stay on suboxone for the rest of my life here on earth, but I kind of do...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I dunno about giving treatment a finite duration. If I'd said I would only stay on Sub 1 year, I'd have gone off it when I was still using occasionally (while on Sub). And that'd be fucking stupid. In fact, I kept using occasionally for a couple of years into my Sub treatment.

My plan is to get to 6 months on Sub without incident, then I'll start looking at reducing my dose, with a plan to do a slow gradual taper. But I have to be prepared to increase the dose a little bit if the "old me" starts trying to steer myself off course again. And I'm actually getting close to that 6 month mark for the first time.

I think, because of my using history and previous inability to stay on Sub (even methadone) for any length of time, I will likely need to stay on Sub a fair while, and my reduction will be a long slow process. But I am committed to living without Sub and I think about getting off it many times a day.

IMO as long as you give people a fixed duration on treatment, you're asking for trouble. Recovery is a very personal process. Some people have such high habits, or concurrent mental health issues that they need to learn to manage before even considering getting off Sub. People are different, and one size fits all approaches to recovery are doomed to fail.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:37 pm 
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I can't believe how much I hear people using on suboxone treatment on this website. There's no way I could ever get away with smoking pot (which I'm still tempted to do) with the $700.00 drug test they do, lasts up to 4 weeks which is the maximum. With my clinic, there's no way to get away with it and I'd much rather be clean and just have my suboxone. I do miss marijuana sometimes and it sucks hearing so many people say that there doctors let them smoke.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Hi there healingwaters :wink:

If the mary jane thing, is that important to you, maybe look for a new dr.????
for me, with my doctor, it was a FOR SURE "no-no"
the first six months of treatment,,,
but then after I'd been seeing him a year, he said something like
Have you been tempted to smoke marijaunna?
I said No,
cuz I don't really miss it,
but he sure made it sound like if it was something I wanted to do, I could...
where in the start, it was definitely a good way to get "dropped"

(I think TJ was talking about 'slipping/relapsing' while ON sub, by the way)

anyways, might be worth looking into, or hanging on a bit longer, and seeing if it's an option.
you never know 8)
especially if a few more states make it legal, soon.


AND,,,
here's an interesting blog write-up by the suboxdoc,
on length of suboxone treatment......

have a great weekend, and welcome to our lil comunity





Suboxone Talk Zone: A Suboxone Blog

Questions and Answers about Opioid Dependence and Buprenorphine





Why do some docs kick patients off buprenorphine?

by J T Junig on September 7, 2010






I often receive e-mails from people that go something like this: I was addicted to oxycodone and heroin for 5 years, and lost my marriage, several jobs, and the trust of my children. I was completely broke, and considering suicide. Then I heard about treatment with buprenorphine and found a doc who prescribed it. Since then everything has been going much better; I have a job, I’m putting some savings away, and I have been starting to reconcile with my family. But my doctor says he wants me off Suboxone and is making me taper, and I’m definitely not ready. I am starting to panic because I know that if I have to go off buprenorphine I’ll only end up using again. Is there a way to make him keep me on buprenorphine?


Why the rush?

I have described my approach ad nauseum on this blog. I look at the ‘givens’:

- Despite everyone’s wish that addicts stop using opioids and ‘get off everything,’ it just doesn’t work that way. The relapse rate after stopping opioids is very high, whether stopping buprenorphine or any other opioid substance.

- Opioid dependence is a chronic illness that never goes away. People relapse even after years of sobriety.

- Traditional treatment suffers from very high costs and very low success rates, and requires a large time commitment. Traditional treatment does NOT offer any ‘long term protection’ against relapse; if a person stops attending meetings, the rate of relapse becomes similar to those who never went through treatment.

- Buprenorphine can hold opioid dependence in remission in motivated addicts. It is not just a ‘substitution’ of one drug for another, as the ‘obsession’ which is the essence of addiction is reduced, allowing personality to improve and for other interests to return.

- The side effects and risks of taking buprenorphine are not significant, especially when compared with treatments for other life-threatening conditions.



- Even a short relapse can have unpredictably severe consequences, including legal trouble, loss of career, loss of key relationships, and death.

I could go on and on with this list, but you get the idea. My own conclusion then has been that buprenorphine should be considered a long-term treatment for a long-term condition.

Why do some doctors insist on a short-term approach? One reason is simple ignorance, and not understanding the nature of opioid addiction. Many docs persist in seeing addiction as a ‘choice’, and fall into the same silly thinking that some addicts initially believe, that the main barrier to sobriety is withdrawal. Addicts who become miserable enough to get through withdrawal quickly learn that the withdrawal is NOT the problem—at least not the MAIN problem—as even after the symptoms go away, the addict relapses. This is maddening to the addict’s loved ones, and some doctors see this situation and become angry at the addict, rather than understanding the nature of addiction. At least there are now studies showing the high rate of relapse, and hopefully the data will change the behavior of physicians prescribing buprenorphine.

Another reason for short-term prescribing is because the buprenorphine is being used as detox, for entry into a ‘total sobriety’ treatment center. I won’t get too upset about such a situation, except to point out that such treatment centers commonly mislead patients about their chances. At the treatment center where I used to work, Nova counseling services in Oshkosh, WI, the counselors would get very excited about patients who looked good on their way out the door. But nobody seemed to feel any responsibility if that same patient relapsed and returned—or died—six months down the line. Of course many patients never made it to the end of treatment, getting thrown out early or leaving on their own. The counselors blamed those failures on the patient—instead of recognizing a failing treatment strategy. THIS IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM, by the way, with residential, traditional treatment programs—a problem that exists because of stigma about addiction, and a sense that addicts are less deserving of good health than ‘normal people.’ How can I say that? Think of it this way—what if any other illness was managed in this way? If heart disease or diabetes simply failed to make people better most of the time, and the doctors routinely blamed the patients for the lack of success, how would THAT fly?

My biggest concern is that there are motivations to get patients off buprenorphine that come from the requirements placed on physicians who prescribe the medication. Physicians can treat only 30 patients at a time with buprenorphine. After a year they can apply to raise that limit to 100 patients. Ironically there is no limit at all on the number of patients a doctor can treat with opioid agonists! In a typical practice, patients are seen less often as they become more ‘stable’ on buprenorphine, resulting in a situation like mine– I have about 100 patients who have done well on buprenorphine for some time, many of whom had multiple attempts at ‘traditional treatment’ and some who were on buprenorphine from other docs, who would like to stay on buprenorphine long-term. That’s fine with me; buprenorphine patients are a small part of my practice. But if I wanted to make significant income from patients on buprenorphine, I would need to clear out spots for new patients who are seen at greater frequency, and who would pay the initial intake fee.

In other words, doctors are rewarded for high patient turnover, and the growth and earning power of their practices are limited by the cap on the number of patients they can treat. I understand the reason for the cap; we don’t want to suddenly have thousands of patients on buprenorphine without adequate treatment and supervision. But there is always a downside to any regulation, and rapid turnover in some practices is a downside to this particular regulation.

I don’t have any particular advice for people who are being forced off buprenorphine for no fault of their own, other than to seek out a new physician. Patients who are considering starting buprenorphine may want to ask the doctors in their area about their attitudes toward long-term maintenance. Hopefully over time at least some of the motivations for pushing people off buprenorphine will become less significant. For the docs who are doing the pushing, I encourage you to examine your own motivations. I realize that everybody wants to get back to how they were before becoming addicted to opioids… but it is important to remember that nobody can predict the outcome of a relapse, and some people die.
..
Read more at http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/why-do- ... vbp1mwv.99


[marq=right]~~~LINK~~~[/marq]
http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/why-do- ... enorphine/

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:14 am 
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Hey Amber, I guess it really isn't that important. I'm really liking the not spending money on it part but friends could still smoke with me but then I'd be tempted to buy again. I can't get a new doctor unless I wanted to pay for treatment. And it would he a long, long drive. My treatment and prescription Is 100% free and it be hard getting that somewhere else. I'm very fortunate not paying anything for treatment. MJ really did contibute to my addiction so it's probably better. Plus I was sick of the life style and there are legal risks as of right now in my state. So is it really that important to me? Not really, I'm happy with just being on suboxone.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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