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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:45 am 
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Anybody heard of synthetic urine that contains suboxone? Apparently this is used for people who see sub doctors and get tested as they need to test positive for suboxone but not other drugs. To give a back story to this question, I have extreme anxiety and have never been properly treated for it. Yesterday I had a panic attack and my wife gave me 1 mg of Xanax that she is prscribed. I have 8 days until I get tested at my doctor and want to know if anyone has similar experience and passed or any advice? I have been clean for 3 years now and other than one other time about a year ago when I took .25 mg of Xanax for an attack I had this is an isolated incident. I do realize how stupid it is to take something when I get tested and am required to pass to receive my medication.. I don't need any bashing, or telling me I shouldn't have done it, etc.... Good advice is welcomed... I believe I will pass as the half life for Xanax is between 12 and 26 hours and I only took 1 mg with 8 days to get it out of my system. Thanks for the help guys!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:58 am 
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Hi Jordan,

No one's going to bash you. Panic attacks can be brutal things, and one might feel like anything is worth doing to end it. However I will add that they can be controlled without medication. I know this because I also
suffer from anxiety issues.

I don't know about synthetic urine and I wouldn't mess with it, not because I'm all that upstanding but because it would easily get you into even more trouble. Anyone selling urine online say, is obviously a shady character and not to be trusted.

Someone will chime in, hopefully one of our two doctors who participate from time to time Meanwhile, I bet you can find your answer about xanax and blood tests online with a simple google search.

If you end up feeling confident you'll pass the test, then I wouldn't mention anything. If it turns out to be iffy, I would 'fess up, rather than wait to be discovered. Your story is reasonable, and your record you say is good. What happened during the previous incident?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:59 am 
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Hey Jordananddeanna, I deleted ur duplicate post in the Induction Discussion section, u only need one thread or else you'll get multiple responses in different places. Just wanted u to know why it's been deleted. No biggie.

I've never heard of synthetic urine that only tests positive for buprenorphine. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist but I've never heard of anything like that. I wouldn't recommend it regardless though. I wouldn't try to alter my drug screen or lie if it does end up showing up. If u decide to not mention it and it does show up positive for benzo, then if I were u I would be honest about it.

Well this happens sometimes to some ppl, for whatever reason, u took a benzo. U don't have a history of failing drug screens so that is a plus for u. Just explain it honestly to ur doctor if u do test positive for it. That's about the only thing u can do. The only other thing would be to tell ur doctor or nurse ahead of time that ur going to fail. That's totally ur call. To be honest, I'm not sure which one I'd do because I'd be afraid either way.

Is ur doctor totally against buprenorphine and benzo's together? Or is he/she more relaxed on that issue? That's a pretty big factor to think about. Some are really scared to have someone take any type of benzo while on suboxone. Others aren't so strict about it. My doctor is strict about it. I've saw some ppl on this forum who's doctor is very strict about the benzo issue and I've saw others who's doctor is totally ok with it. Hopefully u know where ur doctor stands on that.

I don't know exactly how long it takes for xanax to leave ur system, so I can't help u on that part. I'm sure someone who does know will be along shortly.

So I tried to help, not sure I said anything u didn't already know lol. Anxiety and panic attacks are awful. My brother went to the er thinking he was having a heart attack one time, turned out to be a panic attack. So I'm sure it's awful. I have anxiety a lot. There'll be times when I wake up just full of anxiety for no reason. It lasts most of the day sometimes but then it finally goes away. Hopefully u can get treatment for it so u won't have to go through this scenario again.

Good luck!!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:12 pm 
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I have never heard of synthetic urine with Suboxone in it-but I am not surprised it exists. Personally, I would not mess with it. Part of recovery is telling the truth, even when you have to face the consequences, no matter how difficult they might be. If I had taken a small amount of Xanax, I would just tell my doctor. She actually will not treat people with a benzo addiction but I would tell her anyway. I would tell her what exactly happened and why I took it in the first place. In fact, I did not pass my first urine test in her office because I had taken Valium a few days before my appointment.
What if they test the synthetic urine to see if it is synthetic?? That would not be a gamble I would be willing to make. Nope. Just like there are ways to cheat a urine test, there are ways to check to see if it was cheated.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:15 pm 
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First, thank you guys so much for the rapid responses and for the honest feedback. I have taken around 36 drug tests for this particular doctor and passed every single one of them for him, yet his policy on failing them is ZERO tolerance. His philosophy on other medications and suboxone is non existent. He doesn't think I should take anything at all except my subutex. He gets mad when I take a Dramamine for the nausea as it can alter my mood in his words and he doesn't want me to take anything that can get my "addict" brain churning. However, I also suffer from horrible bouts of nausea and I take 2 to 4 Dramamine daily. Sidenote Dramamine and other cold and flue OTC have been known to cause false positives for methadone so be weary of that.

He isn't an "I can be honest with him" kind of a doctor. I have been on 16 mg for the better part of 2 years and the year before that he prescribed me 24 mg of buprenorphine which he claims is the highest and biggest amount he can legally prescribe. I happened to be a devastating case of heroin addiction and that's why he put me on such a high dosage to begin with. However, with the other case where I took .25 mg of Xanax. I took the .25 mg on a Saturday night around 7 pm totally forgetting my drug test for my doctor was on the following Monday. I was freaking out needless to say. Once I realized what I had done I purchased some fake urine from an adult novelty store and prepared it to be used on my way to the test only to realize, " OH SHIT... I have to have suboxone in my system otherwise if I pass a test for my doctor for every single drug and have no suboxone in the results he is going to kick me out. So I decided to bite the bullet and just accepted that if I failed I failed. I did this to myself and if I have to endure hellish withdrawals for the next few weeks I have no one to blame but myself. Miraculously, I passed the test. I only had less than 48 hours to get .25 mg of Xanax out and somehow it did. I am not too terribly worried about 1 mg in 8 days time period bc I think that should be enough time however, I wasntedto see if anybody had similar experiences or advice.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:16 pm 
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here is the link for the synthetic urine with suboxone added into it. Their explination of how and why they are selling it seems legit but I will probably stick to my own urine lol


http://www.drugtest-solutions.com/subox ... _urine.htm


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:21 pm 
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This is true Htown and on second thought I wont get the urine. I was more curious about it than anything and wondered if anybody else had heard about it. The only hard part about telling my doctor is the strong possibility he will kick me out of the program. The results of being kicked out will be horrible.. I have a wife and 2 kids and am 28 years old and have just now been living a normal life the last 3 years. Before that I was homeless, in prisons, and living life like a crazy person. I know exactly what will happen if I get kicked out and have my suboxone just cut off like that. The 16 mg I am on now will be a withdrawal for the books and believe me I have experienced a lot of horrible withdrawals. I wont be able to keep my great job, I wont do hardly anything that is expected of me bc when I withdrawal there is nothing else on my mind and nothing else more important than finding something to take the withdrawal away.. It probably wont happen, but lets really really hope it wont happen lol


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:56 pm 
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After 3 years if there is this much angst with your doctor consider looking for another provider.
That website looks sketchy, I think their aim is to separate you from your money.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Ugh... I hate it that some docs have 'zero tolerance' for ANY illness. Yes, there are times to discharge patients; patients who sell their meds, or who clearly have no intention or willingness to move on to a better life. But throwing a patient into an active, life-threatening addiction is a very serious step, and all of the ramifications must be considered.

I don't intend anything I'm about to say to come across as a 'bash'. Sometimes I DO bash, but I don't feel like it with this post!

I will say a couple things about panic attacks and benzos... panic attacks usually last 15-20 minutes, so benzos, even fast ones like Xanax, are not a useful treatment. It is useful for some people just to HAVE a Xanax pill available, but the best approach would be to get one prescribed and never use it!

If you get frequent panic attacks, e.g. one per week, consider an SSRI. Lexapro almost always eliminates true panic attacks. All the SSRI's are very effective, cheap, and harmless. They can delay orgasm in higher doses, but that's about the only side effect.

One milligram is a big dose of Xanax. I say that just because you referred to it as 'only' 1 mg. The 0.25 mg dose is a typical starting dose. People who have been addicted tend to take more and more benzos until they 'feel' them, whereas other people take them with the intent of avoiding that feeling because they don't like it.

Please, if considering benzos, look at my post :http://patienttimes.com/twelve-problems-with-benzodiazepines/

I've had patients bring in fake urine, and I don't know how many times I catch it-- but there have been some that I knew immediately were fake. Some are too green; some have a sulfur smell; some appeared carbonated! I use a strip that measures pH, osmolarity, and detects many of the adulterants used in the samples sold in head shops. A person appears to be more 'off track' if using fake urine, than a person who fails one test out of 30.

Good luck, whichever path you choose; let us know how things end up!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:34 pm 
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My opinion is the same as docm2. Do your best to find another provider who will work with you and your anxiety issues.

Like Dr. Junig stated, using a SSRI will surely help. My wife suffered from them constantly when I first met her. She too always had a .25 Xanax with her but never took it. Just knowing she had it relieved her anxiety. Her doctor put her on Paxil and it worked wonders. The way she describes it is that when she feels the panic attack rising up, the Paxil acts like an elephant and slowly squishes it back down like it's sitting on it. After having that happen time and time again she no longer fears getting one. When we first met she could only drive maybe 1-2 miles from home. That was because she suffered her first attack while driving. Now she can drive anywhere, anytime. The only regret she has is that they didn't invent the drug earlier and feels like she lost 10 years of her life to fear. I cannot speak about the other anti-depressants but it is worth you finding out which one will work for you.

My guess is your urine will be clean for your next appt. Just a guess of course. If you start down the road of cheating and lying, the addict never gets better. Jenn said it best. Honesty is always the best course of action. Start looking for a new compassionate doctor. And welcome to the forum!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:43 pm 
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So, both of our doctors have chimed in. Suboxdoc is Dr. Junig, the doctor who created this forum. I just wanted you to know that you are receiving advice from a man who was an anesthesiologist, before his opioid addiction short circuited his career. But he went through a second residency in psychiatry and has his own practice now.

We are also fortunate to have the advice of docm2 on the forum.

Several people have given you the advice to search for a different buprenorphine prescriber. I am just as offended and upset as Dr. Junig about doctors who have a zero tolerance policy! I am in grad school earning a masters in Addiction Studies, and it is perfectly obvious to any professional in the field that relapse is a normal part of addiction. Addicts who are extremely dedicated to their recovery still relapse on their drugs of choice and other drugs as well. It's part of the disorder!! A professional, particularly a doctor who should know better, helps the client/patient learn lessons from a relapse rather than kicking them out of their practice!

If your relationship/rapport with your doctor would not prevent him or her from firing you from their program, there is no point in sticking with that doctor. Definitely find a new provider! And when you leave the first doctor, tell him that his zero tolerance policy makes no sense because relapse is a known part of addiction. Tell him that he is harming addicts, not helping them, by being so inflexible!

I wish you luck with your test, but definitely start looking for a new doc!

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:53 am 
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xanax will only stay in your system 3-4 days. i've passed drug tests taking xanax 4 days prior, so i think a week is plenty of time to flush it out.
i also have anxiety. i've ended up in the ER with panic attacks. which they gave me xanax for. currently i take 10mg lexapro for it.
there are lots of tools available for treating anxiety.
check out hypnosis for mind programming success on youtube
my therapist knows the speaker and recommends the entire series.
also, look into breathing exercises....
Exhale completely through your mouth, making a whoosh sound.
Close your mouth and inhale quietly through your nose to a mental count of four.
Hold your breath for a count of seven.
Exhale completely through your mouth, making a whoosh sound to a count of eight.
This is one breath. Now inhale again and repeat the cycle three more times for a total of four breaths.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:47 am 
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Thank you to everyone for providing their opinion and insight... I will take all of it into consideration and I already know what choice I am making. I will pass with my own urine.

I have a question for the doctors. How long should a 1 time use of 1 mg of alprazolam take to get out of my system. I am a fairly healthy 28 year old 200 lbs, 6 foot 2 .. I do have hepatitis C but my liver functions are normal and I have the type that can be cured with antivirals and the new treatments that have come about recently. As I stated earlier .25 was out in less than 48 hours apparently. Surely 8 days is enough time. As I said earlier I know this is my fault and I alone will suffer the consequences. I just hate to think what will happen when I am totally cut off of 16 mg a day for 3 years.

See my doctor is one doctor in a one room office that is in a building with many other businesses. He has no waiting room, no nurse, no other people other than him. So passing or failing the drug test falls on him and him only. He has told me several times (about 2 times maybe 3) that he couldn't see the line for methadone. LOL First off ive taken methadone 1 time... I did it at a clinic for 6 days and decided to leave bc everyone there were still using while taking the methadone... it wasn't a clean environment.. what a waste of time that drug supposedly is... no back in the day if it wasn't raw heroin I didn't want it... if I couldn't find H I would settle for dilaudid, Demerol, oxy, or shitty morphine.... my point to this story is he has told me a couple times he thinks I failed for methadone when it has been over 5 years since being in that methadone clinic and that was the only time I had ever had any experience with the drug. My mother is a nurse practitioner and my father a radiologist and I told them ab this bc I was so upset about him telling me he thinks I failed for methadone as I had been clean for 2 years or longer at this point. My parents asked did u see a line at all (the line that indicates its negative for the drug) I said ill admit while the line is very faint for some reason it was most definitely there all 2 or 3 times which in my book and my parents book means I passed my tests and I told all that to my doctor. I told him I don't know if u just cant see the line or your vision is bad or what but there is definitely a line there and I KNOW what is and what is not in my system and methadone is most certainly not! I say all that to give reference. When the lines were faint on the tests he told me that he doesn't just take the test into consideration. He takes how my family life is, how I look, how I am dressed, am I unkempt?, my speech, my heart rate and blood pressure etc.. And if a false positive occurs but everything else seems normal he gives a break. I still to this day have no idea why the lines were so faint for methadone on 2 or 3 separate occasions... I did a little research and found that Dramamine can cause this sometimes. I just so happen to take 2 to 4 Dramamine a day so perhaps that was why.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:34 am 
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I have been trying to do a lot of math and conversions. Mostly because I am bored and interested in this topic as well as curious if I will pass or not.

What is the normal cutoff level in nanograms for Xanax in preliminary drug screens? I think it is somewhere between 200 and 300 NG/ML.

Also the half life for Xanax is roughly 26.9 hours but the average is around 11.2 hours.. Meaning it will take 11 to 27 hours for half of the dosage I took to be eliminated from my body.

I take this to me that in roughly a days time I will only have .5 mg of Xanax in my system.... Another days time I will have .25 mg in my system. another days time I will have .125 mg of Xanax in my system and so on and son un cutting the dosage in half every 24 or so hours..

So by my math in 8 days time I will have roughly .00390625 Mg of Xanax in my system.

My question is ..... Is .00390625 going to be detectable in a standard Discover Multi Use 10 panel drug screen or is that amount of Xanax detectable period? It seems like such a small amount that surely it couldn't possibly be picked up by a regular drugs screen.

Keep in mind this isn't an EMIT or gas chromatography/ Immunoassay type of test where they can find out exact amounts of drugs in people's bodies.. This is a simple piss test.

If any doctors are fluent in conversions and mg I would appreciate even an estimate or opinion of this.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:41 am 
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The manufacturer of my tests states that short acting Benzodiazepines can be detected up to 3 days.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:20 pm 
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ok thank you. That's the type of answer I was searching for.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:14 pm 
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jordanndeanna0113 wrote:
ok thank you. That's the type of answer I was searching for.

yes, i agree 8 days in plenty. i've passed the cup office test after 4 days.

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