It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:31 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:43 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:36 pm
Posts: 5
So today I went for my suboxone check in appointment with my suboxone doctor, and he scheduled me with the psychiatrist because I have been having really bad anxiety and panic attacks and whatnot, I have a lot of problems. But I messed up and relapsed tonight :( and now on top of the guilt of relapsing I am freaking out and becoming more anxious because every time I go to the clinic they urine test me, but I haven't gone to the clinics psychiatrist yet. So my question is do you think they will test me for my psychiatrist appointment? Even though I was just tested earlier today? And even though I'm not meeting with my suboxone doctor and only the psychiatrist? The suboxone has been helping me so much and saving my life up until now :( I'm freaking out so much about whether they will test me or not. Should I just call in the morning and cancel the appointment? Should I try and call ahead and say I am in a rush and can only make it if I can I can get right in and meet with the psych Dr right away? And tell them that I already met with the nurse people today and was already tested? Any insight will help. I would be fine with canceling the appointment but I really really need the appointment I have so many problems being untreated right now. Like I said if anyone knows anything about this and has had any experience it would help so much :( thanks guys


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:40 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
I'm sorry that no one had good answers for your questions. By now you've decided what to do, so do you mind sharing?

If I had seen this in time I would have suggested you come clean when you talked to the psychiatrist. It sounds like you are very early in recovery so hopefully nobody expects you to be super stable right now. But I understand why you would want to hide the relapse too. You never know how rigid a practitioner is going to be. I do think that some of the sub doctors are a little spooked by the DEA and therefore would not allow any latitude.

I guess I would have told you that it was a decent idea to subtly find out beforehand whether there would be another UA for the visit with the psychiatrist. I support the honest approach, but experience has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry.

I hope you made a decision that worked for you today. How did it go?

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:26 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:36 pm
Posts: 5
Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
I'm sorry that no one had good answers for your questions. By now you've decided what to do, so do you mind sharing?

If I had seen this in time I would have suggested you come clean when you talked to the psychiatrist. It sounds like you are very early in recovery so hopefully nobody expects you to be super stable right now. But I understand why you would want to hide the relapse too. You never know how rigid a practitioner is going to be. I do think that some of the sub doctors are a little spooked by the DEA and therefore would not allow any latitude.

I guess I would have told you that it was a decent idea to subtly find out beforehand whether there would be another UA for the visit with the psychiatrist. I support the honest approach, but experience has taught me that it's better to be safe than sorry.

I hope you made a decision that worked for you today. How did it go?

Amy


You are not too late! And you don't understand how relieved I am that someone has replied. It is still only 1AM and my appointment is at 9AM. I was already thinking of calling in the morning and saying I had another appointment I had to make that I didn't realize I had at the time (my doctor did just spring this appointment on me while I was meeting with him) and saying I won't be able to make it unless I can be in and out quick. I will say that I just met with the nurse-people the day before and that if I can come in and go straight to the psychiatrist and be quick, I will be able to make it, otherwise I will need to cancel/reschedule. My only problem with that is that its a lie and I don't like doing that. I had thought it was in the past now that I'm in recovery, but I guess I kinda messed up recovery anyway for the time being.

You're correct about everything else as well. I am in the early stages of recovery, and while I don't think my doctor is scared of DEA, I feel he will be rigid with me. I am very young, he lost his son to an overdose when he was my age (which he always reminds me of), he warned me about relapsing already and that the chances were higher if I was on suboxone over vivitrol, and he didn't want me to go on suboxone in the first place because of that reason. I'm also in the middle of a very big court case that he knows about and he warns me all the time not to mess it up by doing drugs. I'm starting to think that canceling the appointment is the best looking option as I write allnof this down now lol. Anyway although he likes me, and is great to me and works with me very well, I don't think that he will take a dirty test very lightly at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:10 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
I hope the fact that your doctor has taken a personal interest in you is a blessing rather than a curse. You can already see the obvious pros and cons in the situation. He is in your corner to succeed, but he may have unrealistic, personal expectations of you that could hinder your recovery.

To me, the fact that he didn't want you to go on suboxone is a huge red flag. I'm glad he gave you a choice, but he is not necessarily basing his suggestions about treatment on scientific evidence. I don't know of any study that shows that vivitrol is more effective than suboxone, at least not over time. It may be 80-90% effective for close to a month, but that doesn't mean that addicts can't or won't relapse on it. Your doctor would not be human if he wasn't conflicted about the recovery tools available for addicts. There is a decent possibility that when his son was addicted the doctor relied only on abstinence-based treatment. It is then likely that he might dislike suboxone as a recovery tool because it contains an opiate, but feel guilty or conflicted because his son was not offered the choice to take it and he died. Does that make sense?

I'm not trying to confuse you or make your recovery more difficult by highlighting your doctor's possible conflict of interest. It makes your relationship with your psychiatrist, however, perhaps more important. Hopefully you can assume that your psychiatrist doesn't have the possible conflicts of interest that your doctor may have. When you meet with the psychiatrist you need to ask some questions about whether or not your sub doctor will be privy to your sessions. You are finding out, in other words, if your psychiatrist will maintain your confidentiality between the two of you, or if he will have to report everything to your sub doctor. You should have to sign a form detailing this. If the psychiatrist can and will keep your confidence, definitely mention that your sub doctor has taken an interest in you because of the death of his own son. Tell him that you are afraid of what the sub doctor will do if you make a mistake. Be truthful about your relapse and how fragile you believe your recovery is at this time. Your psychiatrist should be able to give you tools that help you avoid another relapse. If you were my son, that's the advice I would give you. Whether you want to postpone your first appointment to avoid a possible UA is your choice after you talk with the receptionist and feel the situation out.

To be continued...

Amy

I don't know your history, besides guessing that you haven't been in recovery very long

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:28 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
It's probably late where you are (I'm on mountain time) so I wanted you to be able to get that first message before I send this one.

Because you are at the beginning of recovery I want to ask you to go into more detail about your addiction. There are things that we might be able to help you with that you might not be hearing from the addiction specialists who are working with you. Or you may not have all the help you are going to need lined up yet. Many members here are not only very familiar with suboxone, but also have been fighting addiction for a long time.

Give us an idea of how old you are and how long you've been addicted. What were you abusing before you decided to get help and how much were you on? What did you relapse on? What dose of sub are you on? Do you have questions we could answer for you?

Although a doctor runs this forum, most of the members who may reply to you here are not doctors or professionals in the addiction field. We are opiate addicts who have some level of familiarity with suboxone or other buprenorphine based maintenance drugs. And most of us are here because we're trying to help other addicts.

I hope to hear back from you. :)

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:10 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:36 pm
Posts: 5
Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
It's probably late where you are (I'm on mountain time) so I wanted you to be able to get that first message before I send this one.

Because you are at the beginning of recovery I want to ask you to go into more detail about your addiction. There are things that we might be able to help you with that you might not be hearing from the addiction specialists who are working with you. Or you may not have all the help you are going to need lined up yet. Many members here are not only very familiar with suboxone, but also have been fighting addiction for a long time.

Give us an idea of how old you are and how long you've been addicted. What were you abusing before you decided to get help and how much were you on? What did you relapse on? What dose of sub are you on? Do you have questions we could answer for you?

Although a doctor runs this forum, most of the members who may reply to you here are not doctors or professionals in the addiction field. We are opiate addicts who have some level of familiarity with suboxone or other buprenorphine based maintenance drugs. And most of us are here because we're trying to help other addicts.

I hope to hear back from you. :)

Amy


First of all I want to sincerely thank you, Amy. :) And it is getting late, but don't worry I am usually up into the early hours of the morning, usually 6 or 7 AM, so I'm hoping that I'm not too late and you're still here!

Anyway, getting to my reply to your posts: (Sorry by the way, I got kinda distracted with other things!) Everything that you mentioned about my doctor, I agree with. I feel like he wants me to believe that I am much stronger than I think. I DO NOT have good confidence in myself though, with anything. The only way that I was able to convince him that I truly needed suboxone instead of vivitrol or total abstinence was that I told him that I am convinced that I will not be able to maintain sobriety without something like suboxone (I really would have liked subutex), and that I would violate my upcoming probation that I'm going to definitely be on and end up in jail for a number of years. I also told him that if I wasn't able to find a doctor that will believe me when I say that I need suboxone or subutex, I would try for methadone. He really didn't like the sound of that one.

I also agree with what you're saying about the psychiatrist. I am not okay with ANY psychiatrist not being completely confidential about what I talk about. No matter who I am seeing and for what. So this is a big thing for me. I am also interested in asking the psychiatrist about my sub doctor, and how I should be going about everything with him. I just don't know how the program works, if I tell my psychiatrist (who is part of the sub clinic) that I relapsed, maybe that means that I can still get kicked out? After all, I still did relapse which goes against the contract of my clinic. I really do want to be honest about my relapse, but I am very anxious about just that. I want to continue on with my recovery as if nothing happened, but I don't think that I will be allowed a second chance, which I feel is going to damage my recovery big time :(

I am in a very early stage of my recovery, as you said (in the bottom part of your first post). But I am motivated. When I messed up and relapsed, I realized I don't even want to feel that way anymore! It was the last time that I needed to ever do opiates because honestly, it fucked with me.

So, to give you more information about me and my recovery, I will answer the questions you asked in the second part of your post. I am 18 years old, started doing percs and did dope a bit before going back to oxy and percs (don't ask me why, I don't even know why I liked them more). Before I got sectioned (court ordered into a 30 day detox program) I was doing up to 10-12 30's a day, sometimes more, sometimes a lot less. I relapsed just on a couple perc 30's but it was enough to make me not want to do any more for a LONG time at least. I still feel so shitty about it :( I'm very scared about what's going to happen, especially with all of my court stuff going on. I'm on 8/2 mg sublingual strips although I'm moving up to 12 when I pick up my next prescription. And I have too many questions to ask in this thread :) lol. Oh, and I have been addicted for about a year or longer, but started doing opiates on and off for about 3 or 4 years. I guess you could say I have been addicted that long, but didn't have enough money when I was younger to keep up a real habit. I did it when I could though.

Again, I want to thank you so much!!! For replying to this thread, honestly I didn't think that anyone was going to. I thought I would be on the edge of a panic attack as I was earlier all night long, but you really have managed to calm me down and I'm very thankful for that. I still don't know what to do about the appointment tomorrow. My sub doctor told me I "can't" miss it. I don't know what that means, although he just sprung it up on me out of nowhere without even asking. That's why I want to say I have another appointment that I forgot about, that I can't miss. So my main question is, what is the best advice you can give me about what to do about the appointment? Because I'm really really stressing about that. I can't stop thinking about it, and honestly I feel really scared about what will happen if I go. Do you think that they will drug test me even though I was just tested? Just in your opinion, I know that you can't know what is exactly going to happen, but do you have an opinion on it? I'm going to call in the morning anyway, but just to put my mind at ease... :(


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:36 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4127
OK, from what you've said it sounds like you've been off oxy for more than 30 days, except for the 30s you took today. In other words, there is no possible explanation for oxy being in a UA if they were to give you one at the appt. I'm not totally sure how long it's necessary to wait in order to get a clean UA. Maybe 3 days? Someone else might know that.

For the morning I would call like you're planning to and see if you can figure out what the appointment will involve. If you don't get enough information or it seems like you will be tested use the excuse that your doctor made this appointment for you so quickly that you didn't have time to check with your parents. (If they are in the picture at all you can use the "my parents made a different kind of appt. (like family therapy) for that time" excuse. See if you could reschedule for Monday, for example. When is your next sub doctor appt.? Your doctor wants you to get in right away probably because you made a pretty good case that you feel unstable in your recovery. So, "You can't miss it!" might be about the urgency rather than "You have to be there at this specific appt." Also, does the sub clinic know all your court dates? I assume they would understand that you can't miss a court date, and that's another decent excuse for missing the psych appt. in the morning.

If you find out that you will get kicked out of the program if you don't make the appt tomorrow, and you do have to take a UA, throw yourself on the mercy of the psychiatrist and be honest. Talk about how your sub doctor is putting this bizarre pressure on you because you remind him of his kid. Right now your goal is to STAY In RECOVERY however you can. It makes me upset that I have to tell you it might be the best idea if you lie, at least partially! But we recently had a member tell the truth about relapsing and he was kicked out by his sub doctor.

After you get out of or get through the appointment in the morning, let us know. In my best estimation, it would be redundant and costly for them to do another UA in the morning for the same sub clinic.

We need to help you get more stable, so let us know what happens. Good luck! I hope everything goes well in the morning. :)

Amy

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:02 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:36 pm
Posts: 5
Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
OK, from what you've said it sounds like you've been off oxy for more than 30 days, except for the 30s you took today. In other words, there is no possible explanation for oxy being in a UA if they were to give you one at the appt. I'm not totally sure how long it's necessary to wait in order to get a clean UA. Maybe 3 days? Someone else might know that.

For the morning I would call like you're planning to and see if you can figure out what the appointment will involve. If you don't get enough information or it seems like you will be tested use the excuse that your doctor made this appointment for you so quickly that you didn't have time to check with your parents. (If they are in the picture at all you can use the "my parents made a different kind of appt. (like family therapy) for that time" excuse. See if you could reschedule for Monday, for example. When is your next sub doctor appt.? Your doctor wants you to get in right away probably because you made a pretty good case that you feel unstable in your recovery. So, "You can't miss it!" might be about the urgency rather than "You have to be there at this specific appt." Also, does the sub clinic know all your court dates? I assume they would understand that you can't miss a court date, and that's another decent excuse for missing the psych appt. in the morning.

If you find out that you will get kicked out of the program if you don't make the appt tomorrow, and you do have to take a UA, throw yourself on the mercy of the psychiatrist and be honest. Talk about how your sub doctor is putting this bizarre pressure on you because you remind him of his kid. Right now your goal is to STAY In RECOVERY however you can. It makes me upset that I have to tell you it might be the best idea if you lie, at least partially! But we recently had a member tell the truth about relapsing and he was kicked out by his sub doctor.

After you get out of or get through the appointment in the morning, let us know. In my best estimation, it would be redundant and costly for them to do another UA in the morning for the same sub clinic.

We need to help you get more stable, so let us know what happens. Good luck! I hope everything goes well in the morning. :)

Amy


Well, I did some oxy the day after I got out of being sectioned at the detox program, in between getting out of the program and getting prescribed subs. After I got on the suboxone though, I was great. I didn't feel like I needed to get high at all for a while. And over time, I think because of the small dose that I'm on, the cravings came back. But when I did oxy this time, it didn't satisfy the craving. Like I felt it, I got high, but oxy wasn't what I wanted, like opiates weren't what I wanted. I want to get rid of my anxiety and be happy. I've been trying to schedule sooo many psychiatrist appointments since the day I got out of the place where I was sectioned, actually, even while I was in there I was setting up appointments, and none of them have gotten back to me. This is the first one that has gotten back to me so I'm sooo pissed off at myself that I've fucked it all up. I don't know why I couldn't have just kept doing good and waited until I saw what happened at the appointment. But either way, that does sound like a good idea. I will tell them that I have another appointment scheduled and that I set this one up without checking first with my mom to see if I had anything set up already, but I'll ask what's gonna happen at that appointment if the people at the front desk know. I'll say that I already gave a urine sample yesterday so maybe I can just come in to talk to the psych quick and hurry off to my next appointment? Does that sound sketchy to you? Or should I just literally say "What will this appointment involve?" should I ask about the drug test specifically or will that seem kinda sketchy? lol. By the way, yes it is normally 3-4 days for oxy to get out of your system so I won't be okay for tomorrow morning if they do test me. I will most definitely fail.

Anyway, I imagine it's getting late everywhere now, so I definitely understand if you go offline! I am normally up this late so don't mind me, I will keep posting as long as anyone is up and posting here. I am almost nocturnal lol!

Also, what you say about helping me become more stable really means so much to me. Thank you so much. But I have much much much more problems than I would ever admit, so fixing myself up at least a little bit is something that I've been looking forward to since the beginning of being in recovery. It is what keeps me motivated.

I will definitely post whatever I end up doing tomorrow, whether I cancel the appointment or end up going. again, thank you SO MUCH for your help! You really calmed me down so much!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:23 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2296
Location: Tennessee
Hey Sordid :)

Sorry to hear ur having such a hard time, I really feel for u being stressed and especially a looming court case hanging over u.......I have been there and it sucks!

Now I don't exactly know what kind of advice to give u but I wanted to tell u that at my clinic every time I have to go to the place I am drug screened. I will go for a meeting..... drug screen, two days later I see the Dr........drug screen, two days later go to get my meds....drug screen lol. BUT by the way u talked about ur Dr being unsure about subs leads me to believe u aren't in a sub based clinic...or are u? If u aren't then there may not even be a screen done. If it is a sub clinic then I would say u will be tested. Like Amy said, there was a situation with someone on the forum where he told the truth to his Dr thinking it was the best and he was dropped with no refill or enough time to find another Dr. So we're a bit afraid to say go be honest about everything in fear of this happening again. If u could find out if this Dr will test u today, then I'd use the excuse Amy said. If u call and ask, just don't make it obvious. Maybe say u were in an extreme hurry and wanna know what is the procedure to see this Dr.

I really feel for u on this. Maybe this worry is what u needed to realize that a relapse can't happen again. Things happen for a reason and this could've happened to show u how much u need this recovery. Please let us know what happens and I wish u the very best of luck today!!!!!! :)

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:49 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:36 pm
Posts: 5
jennjenn wrote:
Hey Sordid :)

Sorry to hear ur having such a hard time, I really feel for u being stressed and especially a looming court case hanging over u.......I have been there and it sucks!

Now I don't exactly know what kind of advice to give u but I wanted to tell u that at my clinic every time I have to go to the place I am drug screened. I will go for a meeting..... drug screen, two days later I see the Dr........drug screen, two days later go to get my meds....drug screen lol. BUT by the way u talked about ur Dr being unsure about subs leads me to believe u aren't in a sub based clinic...or are u? If u aren't then there may not even be a screen done. If it is a sub clinic then I would say u will be tested. Like Amy said, there was a situation with someone on the forum where he told the truth to his Dr thinking it was the best and he was dropped with no refill or enough time to find another Dr. So we're a bit afraid to say go be honest about everything in fear of this happening again. If u could find out if this Dr will test u today, then I'd use the excuse Amy said. If u call and ask, just don't make it obvious. Maybe say u were in an extreme hurry and wanna know what is the procedure to see this Dr.

I really feel for u on this. Maybe this worry is what u needed to realize that a relapse can't happen again. Things happen for a reason and this could've happened to show u how much u need this recovery. Please let us know what happens and I wish u the very best of luck today!!!!!! :)


Thank you for this information! :) It really helped a lot. I feel like when the offices open they are just going to tell me that they don't know what the procedures are because they just work at the desks doing paperwork and whatnot. I'm most likely going to cancel the appointment for now, and ask if I can schedule the appointment for some time next week, to give myself time to get the oxy out of my system. My next sub appointment is on wednesday so that's a week from yesterday (when I did the oxy) which in my opinion is plenty of time to get it out of my system. Recovery feels so much better than doing drugs :( I just wish that I could continue on that path instead of having to avoid something that is going to help me very very very much!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:35 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Posts: 2296
Location: Tennessee
I'm sure u have a lot going on that we don't know about. But as far as u having cravings, when ur Dr brings up ur dose that should help u with that. My clinic has meetings and that has always helped me, so maybe think about finding some support groups that's offered in ur area. Stress is always a trigger to crave ur drug of choice because we are so used to numbing any negative feelings. I know how bad court cases and worrying about facing jail time and probation can be. That's probably got a lot to do with ur relapse plus ur still early in ur rrecovery. Hang in there, it takes a bit to get adjusted and once u do, u will feel normal again. Oh and iI think u cancelling ur apt may have been a good choice instead of failing ur drug screen & getting taken off subs. Think of this as another chance to start over and fresh with ur recovery.

_________________
Jennifer


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:44 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:02 am
Posts: 16
Every Dr. is different and whats true for one is not going to be the same for all of them. I have only had two suboxone Dr.s but my last one sounds a lot like the type set up you have going on. They always tested me when I was to see the Dr. but when I came to see the therapist they did not unless there was reason to suspect diversion or drug abuse. On the other hand your therapist is likely to be working hand in hand with your Dr. so if you give reason to be suspected of relapse expect to be tested. I only share "safe" info w/ the clinic therapist and see an outside therapist to ensure full confidentiality(hope thats spelled right). Its kind of bewildering but I feel much safer this way. I hope my answer is helpful in some respect, but I guess not if you have already canceled. Please do let everyone know how it goes as to add to the "mass" knowledge of suboxone Dr. experiences! :-) :-) :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group