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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:16 pm 
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I am HIV positive since 2008, and have been undetectable and am currently on Reyataz, Truvada and Norvir (boosts other medications). I had a heart attack in 2011 due to changing cholesterol brought on by HIV meds. I woke up on Lortab and spent the next 4 years buying it from a drug dealer with my inheiratance. Somewhere around $20,000. At the height of my addiction, I took 2 Lortab 10's a day. I broke them in 1/2 and dosed 4 times a day. When I could not find a psychiatrist to help me, someone told me that Suboxone was the wes the way to stop taking Lortab. I begain seeing a local doctor, and that has become a nightmare. He is a bit grandious and not really easy to talk to. I have suffered with major anxiety since beginning Suboxone, and have been admitted into the ER 5 times in the last 10 days. They always check my heart, ekg's etc and they say my heart is fine. I have felt so high, sped up and think I am having another heart attack - minus the chest pains. Because of my HIV med regimen, I cannot take buspar and several other anxiety meds. Because of the Suboxone I cannot take Benzos. So, I was left with Neurotin, which made me want to slash my wrists and Hydroxyzine which just makes me so tired that my eyes bug out - and the anxiety remains full force. The Suboxone Dr told me that he did not know where the anxiety was coming from, and that he was just going to up my Suboxone to 12 mgs, and told me that he was grabbing at straws. I honestly feel that the Suboxone is a huge player in causing my anxiety. And have opted to reduce my dose from 8 to 6mgs to see if it will help this anxiety. Today is my 4th day at the reduced dosage and I feel a ton better! But I have this sinking feeling that I have done something terribly wrong and will drop dead because I reduced my dose without talking to my dr about it. At this point, I dont know if this fear is irrational, or if there is truth to it. I need some help from someone who knows.


Last edited by bronablus on Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:29 pm 
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suboxone caused me crazy anxiety too! I'm on my final 3 days before I jump from 0.063mg....was on 4mg for about 4 months and 1-3mg for a few months. My anxiety and weird feelings didn't go away til I was at about 1mg. You should call your dr, but no I wouldn't think you would die from reducing....however, I am not a dr so don't take my advice...best to call. But, try not to worry.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:10 pm 
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Thank you Maya. I appreciate knowing that I am not the only one who has anxiety on Suboxone. The clinic consisitantly tells me that it does not cause anxiety


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:58 pm 
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I don't know where to start but you should seek treatment of some sort. AA/NA smart recovery are all free. I would advise not going to clinics, if you can find a good addiction specialist in your area who prescribes it I would go to him, the Dr you have right now doesn't know much about suboxoNE or isn't being honest with you. Death from opiate withdrawal is super rare, with you being hiv positive it does make your immune system weak so you might want to consult a dr with experience dealing with withdrawal and hiv.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:33 am 
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Tapering your dose will not cause you to drop dead, but it may help the anxiety. Even if there's no pharmacological reason that causes researchers to believe that buprenorphine causes anxiety, it could still help to taper for the placebo effect. Our brains are so complicated!! While there may be nothing in the medication that could affect your level of anxiety, if you have it connected in your mind that there is a link, there could still be improvement in your symptoms.

If you're at 10 mg then dropping to 8 mg shouldn't make you feel much in terms of withdrawal, but could alleviate what you're feeling in anxiety.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:30 am 
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Thank you so much Amy and JJ. My HIV is in check, undetectable and that Dr. I have been with since 2008. I trust him completely. He met with me on my 1st day reducing my dose. He is in the process of facilitating a resolution with this Suboxone Clinic. The Sub Doc, he is supposedly a recovering addict. So he has been, and is fully aware of Suboxone. So, it IS him not being honest with me. I was @ 8 and tapered to 6. Have pretty much completely lost my mind over it, but feel the anxiety is better. I have attended AA meetings (AA is stronger here than NA). In my meltdown today, I have called my sponsor who is at a loss as to how to help me, but has set up an appointment for an emergency evaluation with the local mental health people tomorrow. I just have to make it until then. Y'all will never know how much I appreciate you! Thank you for giving me a bearing and something to hold on to until I can get some help tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:37 am 
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Hey Bron :)

Glad u found this forum, it is absolutely the best. I don't think there's anything for u to worry about by reducing ur dose. I know that it can worry u to death but I'm pretty positive that ur fine, plus if it's making u feel better to reduce, then by all means reduce and keep doing exactly what ur doing.

My boyfriend had a heart attack last November and actually four days ago had more stents put in because of blockages. He's only 35. Let me tell ya, he's worried about everything and thinks that everything makes his heart race. He was actually obsessed with thinking every little thing was gonna give him another heart attack. Now I feel like this is completely normal for someone with heart issues. Ur probably always gonna be on high alert and I would be too actually. But the suboxone being reduced, I promise u that I don't think it's gonna cause u any problems. Suboxone actually makes ppl feel better at smaller doses rather than high doses, so u got the right idea in my opinion. As far as suboxone causing anxiety, I guess it's possible too but it never did me that way but all of us are different. So yeah, take it easy and I hope u get to feeling better about things.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:03 pm 
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Thankbu jennJenn. Yup, I qm in the same boat as your bf. Every gurgle in my stomach makes me think I am having another heart attack. I did not know that about lower doses.I am lookimg very forward to hopefully feelimg better soon! Today is my 5th day at my lowered dose. I feel better than I did yesterday. My HIV dr has been so great at coordinating with my sub dr, & mental health providers who have ironed out a treatment plan with an anxiety suppirt group & psychiatrist. I am blown away by all the help I have received here. Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:43 pm 
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My original Dr did not support my decision to come off Subutex so I found one that would. I did this taper with her full support and compassion seeing her monthly to report my condition and gain further support. I am so greatful to her. I tapered from 16 mg Subutex per day to .5 mg per day then jumped. I lowered dose by 2 mg about every 30 days. At 2 mg doctor gave me 300 mg gabapentin (for WDs)and nuvigle 150 mg (for motivation) . Although Gabas cause sleepiness at first they were a life saver in regards to taking away the nasty WDs and are also an anti-anxiety med, however they do not work well if on the overpowering dominant drug naloxone thats in Subutex.No horror story with this Subutex withdrawal. Alot of mental prepping and planning as I was on 16 mg per day for 6yrs. I am very sensitive to meds and this regiment worked flawlessly for me. One bit of advice....if your on Suboxone switch to Subutex before tapering(for at least a couple months)...at least for me it was Naloxone in Subutex that gave me worse withdrawal than actually coming off Subutex. I believe its the Naloxone that causes the anxiety if coming of Suboxone vs Subutex, at least that was cause in my case. I am mother of 5 and a pediatric oncology nurse, if I did it, you can do it! BTW I was put on Suboxone originally for pain for Mixed Connective Tissue Disease,not for addiction as idk if that makes a difference. Its been 3 months and I continue to take gabapentin daily and 75mg nuvigle as needed. I never missed a day of work or suffered severely. I only experienced mild daytime lack of motivation. No physical pain or diarrhea etc. Best of luck to those taking back control over their lives! I believe in you!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:40 pm 
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I've had my suspicions about that Naloxone. I have a friend who is a pharmicist. She told me that Suboxone does not list the side effects that I have been battling; increased anxiety, pounding heartbeat and things like that. I did ask her to look at nalxone side effects. She said, "it's everything that you are having". I shared this with my Dr. and he said "You are not allergic to Naloxone. If you were, you'd be dead!" I honestly feel that all these adverse reactions I have been having have been and adverse reaction to the Naloxone. The staff at the clinic and the DR. have all treated me like I am nuts. Thank you Average for sharing your story! I am going to try and find another Dr to help me. I am so tired of suffering with this and being treated like a lunatic by this Dr.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:48 pm 
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I would definitley look into it...I switched after 4 years of 16 mg Suboxone to 16mg Subutex 2 years before I completely came off Subutex and honestly it was harder ...but only lasted about 2 weeks(Gabapentin helped a great deal for me, I only took it during those 2 weeks). I really think that naloxone is the culperate to most peoples nightmareish issues!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Thank you for the help Average. I had no idea what Suboxone was when I started taking it. I just trusted the clinic. They told me that it was non narcotic, and safe [Which it obviously is for tons of people - unless you have a reaction to naloxone]. I feel a little bit better today. The anxiety is more managable when I take the Hydroxyzine, instead of just saying it doesnt work lol. The only think I am having trouble with is this crawling and clenching feeling inside my brain. Not sure what it is, but Tylenol kind of takes the edge off of the ache.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:29 pm 
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I believe that clenching feeling is Naloxone. I dont even think you need to be allergic to it experience the evil! My taste/smell experience, body twinges and severe yawning...all happened when switching over TO subutEX only had mild yawning when WDing FROM subutex. The only thing that helped me was Gabapentin. Hydroxyzine is a safe old drug used originally for allergies and morning sickness, but imagine it would help bc has relaxant effect. I prefer advil (ibuprofen)to tylenol...but thats just me. I believe Gabapentin was an absolute necessity to come off subs...but thats me,I know were all different metabollically! Im rooting hard for you , stay strong and busy!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Thank you all so much for your help. I am happy to report that I have not died on my dose reduction to 6mgs. My life may just be a little more manageable. I have found a new Dr who has prescribed me Subutex to try and see if it was possibly the Naloxone in the Suboxone that was giving me difficulty and causing all of my problems. I am nervous about starting it now that I have got it. I was hoping that someone could give me some advice or pointers on making the switch.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:12 am 
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Gabapentin helps with suboxone and subutex wds. Its a must!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:52 am 
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There is no issue that I know of going from suboxone to subutex. The active ingredient in both is bupe. A few months ago I went from zubsolv to subutex. I didn't have any problems. You don't have to wait and it may work better for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:12 am 
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When switching from suboxone to subutex you will withdraw from the naloxone...at least I did! I had taste,smell issues,RLS and light headedness. It wasnt to bad, and I could still function. It took about 5 days to adjust. I didnt know that was going to happen so I just dealt with it. That made me realize that when I missed a few doses it was naloxone that gave me symptoms. As I could miss a few doses of subutex without issue. Withdrawing from Subutex vs Suboxone (vs other way around) is easier to deal with...especially with help of gabapentin. When I tapered from 16mg subutex down to .25 and jumped...I can honestly say gabapentin made it so easy! Its a wonder drug in my book!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Thank you all so much! I started today with 4mgs of Subutex. I got nervous and they told me to cut the 8mgs in 1/2. I have no idea why these medications scare me to death. I was never afraid of the Lortab I was abusing. But now that I am trying to get clean, I have all of these irrational fears. All of your words of encouragement are much needed and greatly appreciated. Thank you again!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Bronablus

I just want to make sure I read your first post on this thread correctly. At the height of your addiction you were taking a total of 20 mg of loratab a day. Is this correct? If it is than your problems may be you are taking Way to much suboxone. 8 mg of bupe is probably equal to 100 mg of loratab! I can't imagine a doctor giving you so much bupe.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:50 am 
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Tiki is right, you should be fine at 2-4 mgs of Subutex. Honestly, you were on a very low dose of opiates to start with. You don't need a whole lot of Subutex. It seems the less the better with this medicine. It will definitely take your cravings away.
Everything will be all right.
Good luck and don't worry so much.(easy for me to say, right?)
Happy


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