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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:01 am 
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Ugh... decided to quit Subox treatment. the weekend was horrible (esp yesterday) - just like when I was in the latter stages of my Norco abuse. depression, confusion, minor disassociation, brutal headaches, some suicidal ideation... identical to the opiate abuse I'd left behind thrree weeks before starting Sub for depression.. That, and feeling the need to dose again in the afternoon - felt like my old opiate craving, which Id not felt since quitting Norco. Going to try and ease off meds, period, for awhile and see if my body rebalances. Ive been beating up my brain chemistry for too long. I do know I could and possible should give it more time to build up in my body before deciding, but my body and mind reaction to Subox - poss coming so close to quitting opiate abuse - is just too risky right now.

Was stated on 1mg a day on Oct 16 (10 days ago)... I thought the mild euphoric effect was my depression lifting and being managed, but now I think it's just the Suboxone "high" from low dose treatment (speaking just for myself, thats what i felt - i know everyone's different).

Oh well, it was worth a shot.

Going cold turkey today. Since it's only been 10 days, hoping there's no need to taper. I do have enough left to taper a bit if some w/d symptoms creep in, but going to see how the next few days go.

Thank you to everyone who offered advice and input during this depression "experiment" by me and doctors in the face of SSRi, SNRI, etc failures - it was great to see people taking such an interest and taking the time to help.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:53 am 
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http://www.alpha-stim.com/

https://neurostar.com/hcp/neurostar-tms ... AsMv8P8HAQ

Non medication options for depression. The Alpha-stim is a few hundred dollars, while the TMS is several thousand dollars the first month and requires maintenance treatment similar to ECT.
PAX


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:59 am 
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Great - thank you. My docs are all frustrated, as we've run through more than a dozen drugs (actually, well more than a dozen - probably more than 20), CBT, diet, exercise, meditation, you name it, since 1989 when I was first diagnosed. I was even part of an experimental trial study looking at the effects of visual stimulation, video "games", etc...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:48 pm 
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I am sorry that suboxone wasn't the answer for your depression. Treatment resistive depression is a terrible puzzle to figure out.

I was reading the outcome of a 2014 study of vagus nerve stimulation in treatment resistant depression. Although only 20% of the subjects reported improvement after courses of vagus nerve stimulation, it was a very well-tolerated therapy, with a few reported cases of hoarseness of the throat as the most noxious side effect. A one in five chance of improvement for a well-tolerated therapy may be worth your efforts. I have no idea as to the costs associated of this therapy or whether it is approved yet by the FDA.

Please stick around if you would like. We will offer support to you regardless of whether or not you are on suboxone.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Thank you, Amy.

Hey - just wondering... I know everyone's different, but do you think there's any reason to taper with what I have left as far as Suboxone strips (I probably have 5 x 2mg strips), after only being on 1mg a day for 10 days, or should w/ds not really be an issue and just jump cold turkey?

I'll check out those options. My doctors welcome any new treatment therapies I can bring to the table.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:58 pm 
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I can't predict whether or not you'll have trouble with withdrawals, but if you find that you're miserable after jumping off you can try using the bit you have left to taper with. I hope you won't have to though!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:59 pm 
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I guess I'll keep what's left around until a week or so after my jump.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:09 pm 
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Sorry your trial wasn't successful. I was wondering, did you speak to the doctor you were working with (who was willing to do the off label trial) about your decision to stop cold turkey? Doctors are, in general, very reluctant to do anything off label with Subs, as the regulations are so strict. So that wasn't a trivial decision on his part.

You may still want to do the .75, .50, .25 reduction as originally planned. Even though you were only on it for a short time, it never hurts to ease off slowly (1mg is a decently potent dose).

Also, I saw you mentioned on another thread that you are on 15mg Valium a day. That may have a huge impact on how you fared on your Suboxone experiment, as it potentiates buprenorphine and is generally contraindicated. Did the doc who prescribed the Sub know about it?

I'm not asking you to necessarily answer these questions on the forum. Just throwing them out there as variables to think about as you asses your overall experience with Sub.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:19 pm 
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Happy to answer - yes, the doc told me to be careful re: the valium due to the CNS depression issues. but, as ive been on 15mg for years, it seemed to have little impact. just to be on the safe side, i took 2.5mg valium spread throughout the day, instead of 5mg 3x a day. the first few days, I ended up not taking the full 15mg. i think i took 10mg on those three days as it did indeed hit me a bit harder. not really with BP or pulse rate or pulseox, but more so mentally.

The doc today said to cut back 0.25 mg Subox every 3-4 days then quit, or I could go cold turkey. He was quick too hand me off to another doc who does maintenance, though. The first psych's specialty is detoxing and managing withdrawals, not other uses.

1mg Im used to now, but you're right, it was far stronger than I expected initially, even cutting back on the valium. Hoping getting off the Sub wont be a major problem...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:35 pm 
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PS - I am paranoid about CNS depression ever since a doc prescribed me the wrong dose of propranolol and I ended up in the ER w/ a pulse of 32 bpm. I have a BP cuff here (two actually), and a finger pulse ox meter whenever Im worried about those things, or if my heart acts up as it has every day the last 10 days.

I do think the doc should have started me on .25mg Subox first, not 1mg, and gone slowly up.

Daily I take:

Valium: 15mg divided (5mg on waking, 5mg at lunch, and 5mg about an hour before bed)
Seroquel (off label for sleep): 50-100mg at bedtime
Synthroid: 225 mcg daily (thyroidectomy in 2003)
Fish oil
Multivitamin
Magnesium (for recent heart arrythmias when I take the Suboxone - no palps otherwise)

Recently:
1mg Subox about an hour after waking - seems to "wear off" about 8-10 hours after taking - much the same feeling as I used to get 4-5 hours after taking Norco

Should be taking:
Simvastatin (high cholesterol) - stopped it about a year ago when I was taking opiates daily...

Available to take as needed:
Ambien (might take 2-3 times a month, if that)

I have left:
Five (5) 2mg Suboxone strips

Was drinking 2 large coffees in the AM, now down to 1 medium.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:53 pm 
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You have to do what you have to do but man, you seem to be making rash decisions here. How can you ever expect a treatment to work if you're changing it every couple days? Not 24 hours ago, 3 pm on Sunday, you post its yoo soon to tell and will follow the plan. Now Monday morning like 18 hours later you're stopping everything. A few days before you were convinced 1 mg was helping. Its clearly frustrating battling depression but I've seen this behavior before from many. You've got to stop trying to be your own doctor and start trusting and following the advice of the professionals you are paying for care. You seem very impulsive. I'd really suggest giving a new treatment a chance.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:02 pm 
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Thank you, Don. I appreciate you taking the time to write. And yes, I can be impulsive (hence my addictive behaviors), but the experiences over the last 24 hours have been dangerously disconcerting. Felt like I was back in my Norco days, when in the last few months before I quit, it got mentally very precarious. But, I do understand what you're saying and appreciate your thoughts on this issue.


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