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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:05 am 
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I have been on so many threads hoping to find some advice on HOW TO find energy to actually contemplate the idea of excercising. MG, guess what? Many people dont work out 2hrs every single day, you had the build up of 6 yrs to sustain a physical program. Yes i have read your posts, how you stress it. The many post you ignore with your go exercise mantra, is many of us cant make it to the front door, i see black stars, i am weak, i need to sit down after 10 steps. I am intune with my body, i seem to crave fruits and veggies more then ever (havent eaten any meat in 18yrs, dont know if its finally catching up on me). Where i get my endorphins boost?Not the runner's rush; chocolate and orgasms,mmmm, suddendly feel like it again, which thank god i can actually have a sex drive again, felt a long time waiting, *winks*.
I understand that my brain is working over time recreating whatever the pathways or whatever it is its doing on its own that hasnt been dictated by opiates. I did not taper down under 2mg, it feels so pathetic that its having an effect on me. I found out about tapering here after day5, i figured i already went thus far, and im abroad, no docs to consult. All i got, which is a gift from god, is my loving bf, who doesnt even drink coffee!
Getting off the major topic for me, ENERGY.Please anyone who has tricks other then go exercise. Natural, chemical whatever, some neuro boost since it seems that's where the problem is, its working overtime has nothing to deliver elsewhere, what do i know, i aint no doc.
Just tired of feeling tired.
thx for listening
P.S. Anyone has tried the Gabatrol or gabba thingie A\B ? mixed up in the chemical language in wiki...


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Hang in there guys. I'm at day 40 give or take a day and really didn't feel that great until a couple of days ago. I still have a bit of a runny nose but overall am getting stronger by the day. It was a long process for me too, could be age 60 in a few weeks. As far as the doctor and the three day crap, most and I mean most don't have a freaking clue what they are prescribing. They get their info from the pharmaceutical companies and run with it as though it was gospel. At 33 days you are really close to coming out of it. I had a good day here and there at the 25 day mark but now it seems that each day is better than the day before. Stay determined, you will feel better soon.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:28 pm 
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abroad wrote:
I have been on so many threads hoping to find some advice on HOW TO find energy to actually contemplate the idea of excercising. MG, guess what? Many people dont work out 2hrs every single day, you had the build up of 6 yrs to sustain a physical program. Yes i have read your posts, how you stress it. The many post you ignore with your go exercise mantra, is many of us cant make it to the front door, i see black stars, i am weak, i need to sit down after 10 steps. I am intune with my body, i seem to crave fruits and veggies more then ever (havent eaten any meat in 18yrs, dont know if its finally catching up on me). Where i get my endorphins boost?Not the runner's rush; chocolate and orgasms,mmmm, suddendly feel like it again, which thank god i can actually have a sex drive again, felt a long time waiting, *winks*.
I understand that my brain is working over time recreating whatever the pathways or whatever it is its doing on its own that hasnt been dictated by opiates. I did not taper down under 2mg, it feels so pathetic that its having an effect on me. I found out about tapering here after day5, i figured i already went thus far, and im abroad, no docs to consult. All i got, which is a gift from god, is my loving bf, who doesnt even drink coffee!
Getting off the major topic for me, ENERGY.Please anyone who has tricks other then go exercise. Natural, chemical whatever, some neuro boost since it seems that's where the problem is, its working overtime has nothing to deliver elsewhere, what do i know, i aint no doc.
Just tired of feeling tired.
thx for listening
P.S. Anyone has tried the Gabatrol or gabba thingie A\B ? mixed up in the chemical language in wiki...


It's great that you're eating lots of fruits and veggies, but make sure you're getting adequate protein as well. I drank a lot of Kombucha while I was withdrawing and I noticed that it helped me with my energy level and just generally made me feel better when I drank it. And engage in any kind of activity that helps boost endorphins - laughter is a good endorphin boost so watch funny movies, read funny books and websites, hang out with funny friends. Being around friends and loved ones who make you feel good can also be very energizing. A hot bath can help ease withdrawal symptoms and improves circulation, just don't stay in too long if you are having issues with dizziness or feeling faint.

Caffiene is hard on the nervous system, so I would avoid it if you can until you get through the worst of your withdrawals. If you can't live without it, try Yerba Mate or Green Tea instead of coffee, or as I mentioned above, Kombucha. You could try supplements like 5htp, SAM-e, L-tyrosine, etc. If you have access to a naturopath, you could ask for suggestions.

I used acupuncture several times early in my Suboxone withdrawal. I found the experience very beneficial. The acupuncturist treated me for energy and the effects were very obvious and it worked quickly. During the treatment I became so relaxed that I fell asleep in the chair, which is not uncommon, but I hadn't really been sleeping well and I woke from my nap feeling quite refreshed. My appointment was after work in the evening, and when I got home that night I had the energy to do the dishes, the laundry, some other housework and I felt pretty amazing considering how I felt before the treatment. I went back a few more times and then felt I didn't need it any longer. The treatment was only $20 bucks and well worth it.

I know that constantly being encouraged to exercise can get tedious, especially when you're feeling so low on energy. And it seems counterintuitive - but trying to get whatever amount of exercise you can really will increase your energy level. Believe me, when I was going through my Sub withdrawal, there were times when the last thing I felt like I could do was move off the couch. But I found that if I just got up and went for a walk, my energy level and other symptoms would be greatly improved for the rest of the day.

It doesn't have to be anything strenouous like a 2 hour workout either. A stroll around the block will have it's benefits. And if you honestly can't make it to the front door - like you would physically collapse and not be able to get up - then there might be something seriously wrong that you need to consult a doctor about, for example a blood pressure problem. Even so, the gentlest exercise you can think of - like a series of restorative yoga poses - will still have benefit. If orgasm is what does it for you, that's great. It's an endorphin boost and it gets your heart rate up, so go for it.

If you're able to do that (orgasm) without passing out, then maybe you can find some other exercises that don't require standing until you build up enough stamina for other stuff. Even if you're just sitting on the floor doing some stretching, some leg-lifts and a few crunches it's a start. Once you can stand, Tai-chi and Qui-gong are both gentle martial arts that I found helpful, you can find videos online to help you get started. Swimming & water aerobics are good options for gentle exercise, and if you can't swim laps then just moving around in the pool a bit is better than nothing.

It will take a while for your energy levels to return to normal. For me, it took about 30 days for me to feel about 80% of my normal energy level, and at 60 days off Sub I felt 100% (I felt fantastic actually). I was not some super-fit workout queen when I went through this process, and there were many days when I did almost nothing physical except maybe take a short walk. But I forced myself to do a little something every day and day by day it got better. I know it is frustrating, I know it sucks, but the only way out is through.

I hope you start feeling better soon, and like I said - if you are literally unable to walk more than 10 steps or leave the house because your energy level is so low, you might need to see a doctor. The thing you said about seeing black stars makes me think you might have low blood pressure or dehydration or something going on.

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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:09 pm 
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I have to admit reading all of your posts makes me feel considerable better. About the energy to work out...I use mesomorph about 45 minutes before going to the gym and it is freaking awesome. Egnites energy like you wouldnt believe and it last hours after I get out of the gym. The onyl time I can get house and yard work done is after the gym I am asusming from the combo of the mesomorph and endorphines from the extreme workout. So the best I have felt since this whole thing started is definately after working out, so try it. The mesomorph has been key for me. I am also taking an herbal assault..B12, l=tyrosine, st johns wart, milk thistle. DO not know if it is helping.

I hear you about the ten steps requiring a break, since I am the same way at week 6! The encouragment on this site has been a live saver, since I know I am not alone. There are days that I actually think I have permantly damaged my brain and body and will never be the same, but then I come on this site and read of peoples success and try not to discourage myself.

Thanks all.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:59 am 
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When I say excercise I dont by any means expect anyone to do what I do, simply walking would help, and quite frankly sex helped me with wd's, its like doq said just to get the endorphins going.

Doq is also right about laughing that helps alot as does doing things you enjoy whatever that may be it also helps get your mind off of being so uncomfortable from wd's. Its never easy for ANYONE to feel like doing anything when your having hard core wd's i get that.

Good Luck


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:49 am 
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Today is day 14 for me. On day10 i finally let it out and cried for about an hour, decided to seek some help. Reached a clinic that deals with sub, however the best i got it was; tapering was the solution...after 10 days ... some encouragement and the same respond exercise...*sigh*... I took some advice from you guys and got some info about low blood pressure, which i tend to have before starting this whole experience, i know when they switched me from meth to sub they would know if i was in withdraw from monitoring how low my pressure was, i figured there gotta be a link there.
Went to the health food store. In this country its quite challenging to find any variety about anything we are used to across the atlantic. The closest i could find to boost me up was ginseng - guarana and roseroot mix, and some b12, since i dont eat meat i figured the more the better. I trippled my water intake, cut down the coffee to 2 cups in the morning, and started to salt stuff, beurk, never liked salt, kept on taking my multi vit/minerals. I dont know if its the combination of it all, or simply that time is healing me. But i do feel better for some hrs a day, others i just crash.At least i am not constantly dizzy, just half the day. Went out for a walk downtown yesturday while going to see Thor, felt good to be outside, would walk more if it stopped pouring rain once in a while, but hey that's what one gets living in Norway.
I know the worst is behind me, thats very encouraging.Listening to music makes me feel good, i got some old albums out i can sing too. Since day one i been watching mostly comedy.Dont have the patience for indies for the moment. Find Ricky Gervais and Karl Pilkington hilarious.Monty Pythons, south park never fail to make me laugh, helped me from day 1 :) Im still dealing with being bored, only so much one can do laying down.Looking into yoga for when i do feel like myself again, its a start. Never been very patient, hmm not at all. Now thats probably what i need to work on the most, keep telling myself, time is my friend.
thx for the advices.
Good luck to you all wherever your at in your paths.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:31 pm 
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I have never visited this site and didn't know it existed until 5 minutes ago when it came up on the "results" page of a totally unrelated Google search. Seriously, I don't know how a search for "business suits" would produce this results??? But I'm one of those "woo-woo" people that subscribe to the belief that everything happens for a reason, fateful encounters, the universe, etc, etc, etc and all that jazz. So, naturally, I felt compelled to register for an account and respond to your situation. Of course, it could also be attributed to the fact that I have an extreme case of ADD!

Anyways, I digress (as usual!) so I will stop circling the airport and just land this plane. Basically, I know what you are going through and I'm so sorry you are having to suffer. The pain is excruciating and not something I would wish on even my worst enemy. And it's impossible for anyone who hasn't gone through it themselves to fully understand just how horrible of an experience this is. Not to say that there aren't worse things people face, but it has by far exceeded anything I have physically experienced. I think one of the worst aspects of it is not knowing when it will ever end. BUT trust me, it WILL GET BETTER and it will end!

It was several years ago that I asked my doctor if I could try the experimental medication (at the time it was considered, and to some degree still is considered, experimental for pain patients). My situation was a bit different than most people who were taking it at that time because I had read somewhere that there were some doctors studying the possibilities of using it as an actual pain medication and alternative to other traditional pain meds. I was sick and tired of the medication I took at the time and really just wanted to try something new and different. Big mistake. It was nasty tasting and it didn't control my chronic pain nearly to the degree of the pain meds I was on before so I decided to switch back to them and eliminate the suboxone.

That was the beginning of my nightmare experience that left me in excruciating, debilitating and constant pain. The doctor told me that I just needed to give the suboxone 3 days to leave my system then simply begin taking the pain meds like before. HAHAheheh.... UGHHH!!! :twisted: :twisted: The pain meds couldn't even touch the pain. I was in so much agony and everyday it went on I just kept thinking WTF!?! I had to go to the ER 2 times, not for pain meds because I had those and they weren't working. I went to the ER because I just wanted to hear that somebody, anybody even knew what it was that was happening and when it would stop. No luck. Nobody knew what the hell it was and most had not even heard of the suboxone so I was SOL. Even the dr. who prescribed it in the first place was clueless. They just kept saying "Hmm, that's weird. I don't know why you would still be experiencing this level of pain. It should have gotten better, but we really don't know enough about the effects in chronic pain patients to say for sure. Maybe you should just take a bit more pain medication and that should help." Seriously??? What was I thinking even trying an "experimental" medication in the first place.

After 3 weeks, it finally subsided and the pain meds finally worked thank God! But the whole experience left me exhausted physically and mentally. In the end, the ONLY thing that actually helped me get through that time was a forum exactly like this one. It gave me such great insight into what others had and were experiencing, what was helping, what was not, and when to expect it to get better. Most importantly though, it gave me a sense of not being alone and comfort in the knowledge that I was not alone during this time.

My hope is that in some small way this post will help you or someone know that it is not forever. It will get better and, in the meantime, take comfort in the knowledge that you are not alone.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Hey abroad,

I found it interesting to see how you broke down and cried on day 10. Day 10 was my breaking point too. I mean I turned into a puddle, I just didn't think I could take anymore of that ridiculous suffering. Somehow, after I completely broke down and let it all out, I felt a little better....not a lot, but enough to allow me to continue on. I'm now 10 days away from 1 year off of Suboxone.

You're at day 14, that's super!! Getting up and getting active makes a big difference, I know it's hard to do because your brain is probably screaming at you to NOT get up and move around.

Good for you for listening to music again and watching funny movies. I am and always have been partial to Rock N Roll, watching and listening to music videos during the first few weeks of my wd saved my ass. Rock N Roll just gives me energy, it makes me feel good and it was enough to see me through some sleepless nights. Wow, Sober by Tool just came on my radio, AWESOME song!!! :D

Just a note, coffee is NOT good for wd.

BTW, welcome to the forum.



Becky81, welcome to the forum to you too!! That's very interesting how a search for business suits would have landed you here. Hey, we're just glad you landed here and I'm glad you stopped circling and landed your plane in your last post!! :lol: Just teasing at ya!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:42 am 
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Thx for the warm welcome.
I dont remember where i read your recommendation of the 'Thomas recipe' which included the L-tyrosine you guys mentioned. 'My brain hurts'(python jokes for those who know).I just looked into it.
A few days ago when i was doing my research about chronic fatigue, i came across magnesium- potassium etc, L-tyrosine,(which i noticed at health food store that it seems to be in all of those weight gainer stuff). And L-tyrosine is an ingredient in gabatrol, which Dr. Junig recommendated. From what i read its converted from L-phenylalanine, and its a protein building block which converts into Levodopa- dopamine, norepinephrine and epinephrine(adrenaline). All i understand is that it works on our neurotransmitters, receptors. Thats whats targetted with opiates and w/d.It says to even have an effect on sleep deprivation, for those who experience it.The d-phenylalaine supposely helps decreases pain in a natural way, something with blocking the enzymes that break down endorphins (the body’s natural painkillers, again what opiates do).For those of us with back pain etc, seems like a natural way out.I read also it is recommended with DLPA (D,L-phenylalanine), L-glutamine, prescription L-tryptophan, plus a multivitamin had reduced withdrawal symptoms and decreased stress.
I would recommend to talk to your doc before, seems to have interraction with many organs, meds.

In the forum where i found the recipe,and again from you guys, many have mention it did help them big time in their process.Anyone making the jump should definetly look into that 'Thomas Recipe'.

Definetly making a 2nd trip to the health food store.

Side note about the coffee, well, an addict is an addict ,before the coffee it was alcohol,before that it was something else.I think i will always have an addictive personnality no matter what i do, mine are limited to coffee and cigarrettes, hrs of World of Warcraft(cant wait to be able to play again, or maybe ill switch that one to something else, like exercise which for me used to be addictive, *winks to mg*).Now that i wrote them down, they all seem counterproductive, for now they suit me, cheaper too. Next step: cigarrettes, probably the worst of them all.I think i will give myself and my bf few months break from any w/d after this experience.

Im on day15, knees still feel like jelly, sneezing is a lil diminished,hands still clamy. still dealing with back pain and head aches, baths seems to help, showers seems to drain me, cant have one without the other.Laughter,music and cuddling is positive on my feel good brain waves.Cant wait for the sun to shine, literally, seems to rain 300 days a year here.Anyway, i feel better, i take confort in that, not there yet but better.

Becky sounds frustrating to have been a guinea pig. Im glad your are doing good now.Congrats on the year off Romeo and to all of you who pulled through.Its encouraging.Thx for sharing.

P.S. i know i got a lil technical about l-tyrosine, its important to me to understand how and why things work.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:17 am 
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I figured it might save some time and effort for those looking for answers.

* Just stumbled upon this site contains a lot of useful infos:
http://www.managingwithdrawals.com/index5.htm

* The thomas recipe page with other testimonials:
http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-con ... 35169.html

* Found more people claiming the recipe and L-Tyrosine:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Addiction- ... show/44482

* Gabatrol page, ingredients info:
http://www.gabatrol.com/ingredients.html

couldnt help myself:
http://www.news-medical.net/news/200907 ... dence.aspx
I know after initialy quitting strong opiates before the bupes it sure made me feel good.Not promoting it, but putting the info out there.

Hope it helps.Will keep posted on how it feels once i get my hands on it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:20 am 
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Hey Light at the End Thanks for the mesomorph tip, I have been drinking creatine before working out but like the mesomorph better I never heard of it before :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:17 am 
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I feel I need to clarify my statement of being off Suboxone for almost a year, while that is true, I did relapse on Lorcet (Vicodin--Hydrocodone) twice within the last 8 weeks.

I will NEVER forget my Suboxone quit date and how long I have been off of Suboxone, quitting Suboxone was an extremely difficult process for me and I will be forever proud of myself for accomplishing that task.

Not that my recent relapses are not serious.....I don't know.....I'll just never forget my Suboxone quit date.

Technically, May 18th is my clean date now.

Hi, my name is Romeo and I have 8 days clean off of ALL drugs.

abroad, you sound like you're doing really well, you have wd symptoms still, but your attitude sounds really good and that's great to hear!! Keep moving forward, it gets better and better.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:43 am 
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You've done really well to get this far. It seems you're over the worst of it, now you just have to deal with the annoying residual effects - the insomnia, sweat breakouts, occasional goosebumps, premature ejaculation.

This might be a weird thing to say in a forum with so many women, but I tellsya, the way I gauge when my body is fully rid of all the opiates is when I can go the distance in the bedroom again. And that would usually take at least a couple of months.

But I digress. You're doing really awesome. It's painful, and I know the detox type symptoms can still flare up outta the blue, but you're exercising, keeping busy and doing all the right things. You're over the worst of it, and if you keep doing what you're doing, you'll be feeling close to 100% in no time. Steer clear of the benzos, even for sleep-aids. It's very easy for people to get hooked in benzos to medicate their post-detox anxiety.

Just a word of warning. As I'm sure you know from your past experiences, there will be a point where your recovery will be put to the test. Don't do what I did and start using again, only to end up on a higher dose of suboxone, in a heap of debt and fighting to be accepted by my family again.

Given you're a professional guy with a good family, a job and most importantly motivation, maybe have Vivitrol / Naltrexone as a possible option if you ever feel close to relapse. It can work well in people who have a degree of stability in their lives, such as yourself. Mind you, it's no magic bullet. But we need to muster everything we can. If I chose to close the door on my using by going on Vivitrol instead of relapsing, I'd be in a much better position today.

Romeo>>

Seriously, don't stress about the clean time stuff. Clean time is no indicator of how sick a person is, how happy a person is or well balanced. Some people use their clean time as a measure of success, meanwhile they're unemployed, single, live at their mum's and only go to meetings to pick up the newcomers.

The problem with the clean-time stripes is that the moment a person loses them, be it by having a valium, two beers over Christmas or even a shot, they're basically robbed of all the success they had during their clean stretch. That time means nothing. They're back on day 0. Either they figure they've lost their clean-time anyway so might as well party-on, or they're so distraught and lost that they feel they have no choice.

According to those rules, because of suboxone, I'm not even clean. If I believed it myself, I would still be using.

T


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Been trying to keep busy but boy is it hard when you feel like laying face down on the bed all day. Which is hard on days like today when I have my 2 young children and my wife is working. The only time I feel better is in and after the gym, after a dose of mesomorph. If I lay around the house it just makes it worse. My kids want to go outside and play but I dont have the energy to chase them around! This sunday will be week seven under my belt, I have my fingers crossed!

You guys have been great!


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 Post subject: oh my gosh, that long
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:42 pm 
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I have been on Subutex for about 16 months now. Starting on a 8mg a day dose, I worked down to 0.8mg a day about 6 months ago, but am feeling a bit trapped at this amount. It has been difficult to stick to this level, which is why I have been at this level for so long. A similar thing happened when I reached 2mg a day, I got stuck there for awhile. Sometimes there is psycholgical issues to contend to which hold up progress, once worked thru I was able to get from 2mg to 0.8mg pretty quick.

I have been able to have days were I was OK with taking just 0.6mg and even an occasional day when 0.4mg was enough, but then I would get some negative thoughts and I would have a bad day and go over my 0.8mg a day, and use the pills I saved from the days where I felt good, and take 1.2mg....the very worst day which happened 1 or 2 times is I took 1.6mg. Things would then turn around and I would get back to 0.8mg and even have a good day at 0.4mg.

Despite all of this, I have actually run out before my next prescription pickup, and I would start to feel W/Ds within 24 hours of my last dosage. I went 48hrs total before it was time to pickup the next script. Now I read this...7 weeks? When I was at 48hrs I was in 2 minds, like if I just did 1 more day I would be over the hump, but at that point I was already feeling so bad.

And you jumped off at 1mg, which is a bit more than I am taking....I am now feeling more trapped than ever, I am not sure I have the will power to make it that long. I think perhaps the subutex builds up in the body, in the bone marrow or wherever so even thou we have tappered down to a very small amount, there is still quite a bit built up there.

I did a day where I just took half a 0.4mg pill for 0.2mg and by the evening I was feeling pretty bad. I guess honestly the past 6 months I have focused more on psychological issues dealing with my negativity and frequent bad moods and irritability more than trying to reduce. When I put in the effort and put effort into will power and discipline I can do a 0.4mg day even though by the evening I am feeling a bit stressed....if I tell myself that I will have some in the morning I can get thru it. I still sleep well on 0.4mg. Thing is I have only been able to hold steady on 0.4mg a day for 2-3 days due to my emotional fluctuations, but I see by your post I will need to hold that level for 2-3 weeks to help reduce the w/ds when I finally jump.

I did see someone mention mention spacing out the doses, so perhaps doing 0.4mg once every 2 days. Not sure if this is going to help, as u get right to the edge and then reverse. All I want to do is get out of this with the least amount of w/ds possible, as I feel after 16 months I sometimes start to think that I could just get used to using this daily.

My doctors have said that it should be easy for me to come off 0.8mg, but I have gone 2 days without before and the w/ds I felt were still pretty bad. One doctor asked me if it would be much worse than having a cold, I didn't know how to respond to this at the time, but I understand now she had a bias and didn't really understand how bad it can be. At least when u have a cold u can sleep and actually sit still and rest it off.

Anyhow I guess I should thank u for letting me know the truth although it is making me feel much more worried about this. The at first told the doctors I would like to jump with some clonidine, but they said that usually for subutex this is not used, but I can see now that it would be very helpful.


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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:10 pm 
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magister wrote:
I have been on Subutex for about 16 months now. Starting on a 8mg a day dose, I worked down to 0.8mg a day about 6 months ago, but am feeling a bit trapped at this amount. It has been difficult to stick to this level, which is why I have been at this level for so long. A similar thing happened when I reached 2mg a day, I got stuck there for awhile. Sometimes there is psycholgical issues to contend to which hold up progress, once worked thru I was able to get from 2mg to 0.8mg pretty quick.

I have been able to have days were I was OK with taking just 0.6mg and even an occasional day when 0.4mg was enough, but then I would get some negative thoughts and I would have a bad day and go over my 0.8mg a day, and use the pills I saved from the days where I felt good, and take 1.2mg....the very worst day which happened 1 or 2 times is I took 1.6mg. Things would then turn around and I would get back to 0.8mg and even have a good day at 0.4mg.

Despite all of this, I have actually run out before my next prescription pickup, and I would start to feel W/Ds within 24 hours of my last dosage. I went 48hrs total before it was time to pickup the next script. Now I read this...7 weeks? When I was at 48hrs I was in 2 minds, like if I just did 1 more day I would be over the hump, but at that point I was already feeling so bad.

And you jumped off at 1mg, which is a bit more than I am taking....I am now feeling more trapped than ever, I am not sure I have the will power to make it that long. I think perhaps the subutex builds up in the body, in the bone marrow or wherever so even thou we have tappered down to a very small amount, there is still quite a bit built up there.

I did a day where I just took half a 0.4mg pill for 0.2mg and by the evening I was feeling pretty bad. I guess honestly the past 6 months I have focused more on psychological issues dealing with my negativity and frequent bad moods and irritability more than trying to reduce. When I put in the effort and put effort into will power and discipline I can do a 0.4mg day even though by the evening I am feeling a bit stressed....if I tell myself that I will have some in the morning I can get thru it. I still sleep well on 0.4mg. Thing is I have only been able to hold steady on 0.4mg a day for 2-3 days due to my emotional fluctuations, but I see by your post I will need to hold that level for 2-3 weeks to help reduce the w/ds when I finally jump.

I did see someone mention mention spacing out the doses, so perhaps doing 0.4mg once every 2 days. Not sure if this is going to help, as u get right to the edge and then reverse. All I want to do is get out of this with the least amount of w/ds possible, as I feel after 16 months I sometimes start to think that I could just get used to using this daily.

My doctors have said that it should be easy for me to come off 0.8mg, but I have gone 2 days without before and the w/ds I felt were still pretty bad. One doctor asked me if it would be much worse than having a cold, I didn't know how to respond to this at the time, but I understand now she had a bias and didn't really understand how bad it can be. At least when u have a cold u can sleep and actually sit still and rest it off.

Anyhow I guess I should thank u for letting me know the truth although it is making me feel much more worried about this. The at first told the doctors I would like to jump with some clonidine, but they said that usually for subutex this is not used, but I can see now that it would be very helpful.


I know where you are coming from, as I've been stuck at 1 mg for a long time now. Well, it's been around 2.5 months or so. I still have symptoms, actually. I tapered to this point and the symptoms always disappeared. This time, they've hung around. I think it has gotten somewhat better, though, because I am able to sleep on 1 mg, whereas for a long time I couldn't sleep much at all. It is just very, very slow!! We just have to push through, and I personally don't believe that it's all that smart to try to drop when we don't feel the drive, desire, and motivation to go further into the discomfort. Better to stay at the same dose and work on getting more comfortable, both physically and emotionally. As far as jumping, I don't see how people do it from anywhere around 1 mg. It's amazing how fast I get sick and how sick I get when I don't take even a part of my little 1 mg.

I did look up the bone marrow thing, because I've been clueless and to why this has gotten so difficult. From what I can find, 'they' tested hamster's marrow and it did not contain the Sub. I think Methadone goes into your marrow, but it doesn't appear that Sub does, at least not from what I could find. Thank goodness, right?

laddertipper

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 Post subject: Day 7 Withdrawl
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:17 pm 
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I am trying to communicate with anyone who has detoxed from Suboxone. I was on for 4.5 years after a long history of opiate abuse/ pain management issues. In short, like most on this site, I am finding that I am extremely lethargic, depressed, and aching all over. My physician was wonderful, but a new insurance plan meant a new doctor. The md I visited last week, had denied a refill ( by mistake) and I went for 5 days with no Suboxone. I had been on 8mg a day for 4.5 years! After the first 3 days of hell, I decided to find a new doctor. I did go into my appointment with the idiot who denied the refill. He apologized and said I seemed to be doing pretty well. Then he asked me if I still wanted to get off the suboxone? I said yes. He gave me a script for Ultram (5mg of 120, up to 4x per day) and Flexeril ( 5mg, 1 x per day) to help with pain issues due to neck injury ( surgery in 2006- triple discectomy with fusion that did not go well). I left with no tapering down or warnings or what I would go through for the next week. I went into work every day, but told my employees that I had the flu. As a coordinator at a public school, I needed to be present the last week. There was heavy lifting and moving involved, so I just got the students to do the work. At one point, I literally laid down on a filthy tile floor to try to ease my headache and exhaustion ( Wednesday/ Day 4). On Thursday ( Day 5) , I almost fell asleep driving to work. Yesterday, ( Day 6) I made it to dinner with a friend, but I just sat and tried to smile. The boyfriend is getting weary and he has suggested that I am overreacting and/or should of gone to a hospital? Should I seek another opinion? Am I on the downhill slide? I feel like I have lost a week of my life. The last time I withdrew from Vics, it was not this long-lasting. I was back on my feet after 4 days. So how long should I expect to be in this mess? I refuse to turn back now, I will never touch the stuff again,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:17 pm 
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You were forced to stop taking Suboxone at 8mg per day? Goodness gracious!

OK, you're on day 7 now....Ummm, I jumped of around 5mg and day 10 was my peak wd day. You may have had the worst already, you may not have, it's really impossible to tell. Suboxone wd isn't quite as intense as wd from Vicodin, but it lasts a whole lot longer.

You do know that those Ultram are potentially addictive, right? There are plenty of people on this site who got on Suboxone to beat an addiction to Ultram. Be careful!!!

So, let me get this straight, your Suboxone Dr. gave you a script for those Ultrams?? Excuse my language, but what a fucking idiot!!

Clonidine is a blood pressure medication that is prescribed "off label" for opiate wd. It helped me quite a bit when I quit Suboxone. I was prescribed .1mg twice daily. Yep, .1mg!!

Hang in there, I know you feel like shit most of the time, but it will get better. It's gonna take time, but it'll get better.

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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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